Convince me Arab Terrorists were on planes

[JamesB]

Griffin continues to ignore reality, pretending that the victims of a terrorist attack and the passengers on the plane, must be the same thing:

Kenney: One of the points that I think people are wondering about that probably could use some clarification is what is the difference between a passenger manifest and a victims list and whether there has been confusion about that. I am not sure that that is really the cornerstone of any of your arguments because you show how the government has changed the names and identities and so forth of the alleged hijackers so many times that regardless of whether the original list may have said it doesn't really matter, but still has that been a question do you think?

Griffin: Well you know, some people have started making that distinction. I am not sure that distinction wasn't just created after the fact that none of the manifests that the airlines put out at the time had any hijackers names or any Arab names whatsoever. But be that as it may, the fact remains that we have no evidence of any list that has the name on them. And we have evidence that when they say that they had identified the hijackers immediately that they are lying.

 

[twinstead]

So this thread appears to be an abject lesson in how somebody can base a conclusion on false information, then refuse to adjust his conclusion when it is shown to be false.

Interesting. And we're the sheep?

 

[The Big Dog]

Hey Roundhead, lots of great info in this thread, hmmm?

I trust that you, like so many Truthers are growing more and more concerned that Griffin is a scum sucking liar? I mean, Cripes, he freaking cherry picks a CNN article while ignoring vast quantities of information issued hours later that corrects any initial confusion. What person in their right mind would believe Griffin after that?

Thanks for a great thread, sometimes it is nice to retread old ground if it shows that leaders of the Truth movement are freaking lying sleazeballs.

 

[JamesB]

Convince me Arab Terrorists were on planes

This appears to be a pointless thread. There is no convincing you. Any evidence that contradicts your viewpoint will just be dismissed as "faked by the FBI". Your beliefs are not falsifiable.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

FYI everyone, I was planning to check out "Perfect Soldiers" from my library later today. I've already read Ghost Wars and Looming Tower, and am in the process of reading a small gaggle of books (part of the reason my posting's been curtailed lately; there's only so many hours in the day!). Anyway, any of you all have any other book suggestions specifically regarding the hijackers or bin Laden himself?

Yes, this post is indeed on topic, albeit only partially; "Perfect Soldiers" is a book on the hijackers.

 

[MikeW]

I will cite the FBI quote again, it makes claer the "highjackers" were identified on 9/11 itself, the CNN story was several days LATER...

It's very simple.

You cannot assume that, just because the Bukhari's were listed as suspects, they must therefore have appeared on the manifest. It's entirely possible that the FBI believed two of the 19 were the Bukhari's using assumed names. And so naming them says nothing whatsoever about who appeared on the manifest. Griffin's claim is based on an entirely false premise.

 

[roundhead]

DRG's statements about the lists do not undo or even address the foundations of the evidence:

1. Martyrdom videos featuring the hijackers themselves.
2. Security video of hijackers in the airports.
3. DNA evidence retrieved from the crash sites matched to either family members or items left behind in cars, hotel rooms, etc.

That's all direct evidence. There's also supporting evidence in who they associated with, the fact that certain individuals engaged in flight training, etc.

No matter what DRG says about the lists, those pieces of evidence stand. Complaints about names changing on the initial lists establish nothing more than a lack of information and clarity in the early stages of the investigation; it does not disprove information gathered later.

1.Martyrdom....Guys eating pork, gambling, drinking, getting lap dances.....you fail

2. what videos, show one from an Airport the "terrorists boarded a 9/11 plane "from. And no the single one that exists, from "Dulles", magically ISNT timestamped, and identify's another guy who looks nothing like Hani, as Hani. You fail again
3. DNA evidence?? Surely you jest. Name one terrorists family member who has showed up to claim the remains. You fail again.

 

[R.Mackey]

Convince me there's a bigger liar anywhere in the Truth Movement than David Ray Griffin...

Seeing as he is a Christian, one would think he'd avoid violating the Ninth Commandment, but no.

 

[Hokulele]

Convince me that water doesn't really make things wet.

 

[JamesB]

1.Martyrdom....Guys eating pork, gambling, drinking, getting lap dances.....you fail

I am sure I have spent more time in Muslim countries than you, and met plenty of otherwise "devout Muslims" who watched porn, drank, met with prostitutes etc. You fail.

 

[Hyperviolet]

How about the reports from the victims who were on the actual flights.
These people told their loved ones that the plane had, indeed, been hijacked.

Faked phone calls, you might say?
But what about the very intimate details they shared with one another?

Linda Gronlund, passenger aboard UA93, phoned her sister, Elsa:
Elsa Strong says, "She said, 'Hi, Else, this is Lin. I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.' And she said, 'Please tell Mom and Dad how much I love them.' And then she got real calm and said, 'Now my will is in my safe and my safe is in my closet. and this is the combination.' And she just told me the combination of her safe. and then she just said, 'I don't know if I'm ever going to get a chance to tell you again in person how much I love you, but I'm really going to miss you.' And she said goodbye."

 

[SatansMaleVoiceChoir]

Why do we have to convince you? The majority of people worldwide accept there were Arab terrorists on the planes - who cares what you think?

Seriously, why? What are you going to do if we don't? Start a new investigation? Bring down the Government and start a revolution? Or are you just going to keep braying for attention on a (relatively) tiny internet forum?

I bet if you were being honest with yourself, you'd admit you don't want us to convince you.

If you want to be convinced - convince yourself. Do the research - start with links you can find on this site.

Just thought I would quote myself with added emphasis...

 

[The Big Dog]

1.Martyrdom....Guys eating pork, gambling, drinking, getting lap dances.....you fail

2. what videos, show one from an Airport the "terrorists boarded a 9/11 plane "from. And no the single one that exists, from "Dulles", magically ISNT timestamped, and identify's another guy who looks nothing like Hani, as Hani. You fail again
3. DNA evidence?? Surely you jest. Name one terrorists family member who has showed up to claim the remains. You fail again.

Hey Roundhead, good buddy, I took you at your word that you had an open mind. I dunno, it just seemed that this post was not exactly showing the broad open mind that one comes to expect from a Truther such as yourself.

So did you already plow through the Arabesque site I linked you to? He is a truther, you know that, correct?

But we must persevere! Right? So lets agree that Griffin was totally blowing wind up your skirts to whore his pathetic books, what do you say pal?

 

[twinstead]

roundhead you'd better bring your "A" game here. All you are doing is arguing from personal incredulity.

 

[MikeW]

the single one that exists, from "Dulles", magically ISNT timestamped, and identify's another guy who looks nothing like Hani, as Hani. You fail again

So you can prove there's a problem with the video? Go to it. It was submitted at the Moussaoui trial, after all. If you can show the Government presented a faked video then that would be a very big deal. Best get started.

By the way, that implication that the Dulles video doesn't show Hanjour has been shown false for years. What happened is the Associated Press ran this picture of the wrong man:

While MSNBC and others ran this one (from a video) of the right one:

All it shows is that the media sometimes make mistakes. More here.

 

[roundhead]

Convince me there's a bigger liar anywhere in the Truth Movement than David Ray Griffin...

Seeing as he is a Christian, one would think he'd avoid violating the Ninth Commandment, but no.

Convince me that i should swallow a questionable story(at best)that is supported(and fabricated) by agency's who are at the beck and call of George Bush, a known and demonstratable liar, that has been proven to not have US interests anywhere near the top of his list, is inept, unrespected by the American public overwhelingly, and in short a failure as a representative my country.

The fact is GWB cant hold Griffin's jock when it comes to morality, and it aint even close.


So if it STRICTLY were to come down to trustworthiness, Bush is way at the back of the bus.

I am truly ashamed i voted for him.

 

[Btodd]

Here you go, roundhead.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/No_hijackers_on_the_passenger_manifests



Now, please return the favor and answer a question of mine. If the hijackers weren't on the planes, then I assume you think they were remote-controlled? That's really the only other option, implausible as it may be.

Are you willing to follow this where it leads? I don't want to hear the usual appeal to 'I don't have to know what happened to know what didn't happen', because that's merely an admission that finding out what happened really isn't your goal.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[sleahead]

Second, several of the names on the FBI's first list, having quickly become problematic, were replaced by other names. For example, the previously discussed men named Bukhari,

As MikeW said, there was no list, just report on CNN which they swiftly corrected. In addition, Griffin would have us believe that the supposed conspirators would undertake the plot without having a carefully prepared list of names. Is that credible? Is it credible that their "list" would contain the name of a man who died in 2000 (Ameer Bukhari)?

 

[Hyperviolet]

Convince me that i should swallow a questionable story(at best)that is supported(and fabricated) by agency's who are at the beck and call of George Bush, a known and demonstratable liar, that has been proven to not have US interests anywhere near the top of his list, is inept, unrespected by the American public overwhelingly, and in short a failure as a representative my country.

The fact is GWB cant hold Griffin's jock when it comes to morality, and it aint even close.


So if it STRICTLY were to come down to trustworthiness, Bush is way at the back of the bus.

I am truly ashamed i voted for him.

Fortunately, the physical universe isn't dependent on your personal mistrust of George W. Bush.

And nothing you've written there is relevant to what actually happened on board AA11, UA175, AA77 and UA93.

You've been shown solid evidence: read it, and then come back with any perceived problems.

 

[The Big Dog]

Convince me that i should swallow a questionable story(at best)that is supported(and fabricated) by agency's who are at the beck and call of George Bush, a known and demonstratable liar, that has been proven to not have US interests anywhere near the top of his list, is inept, unrespected by the American public overwhelingly, and in short a failure as a representative my country.

The fact is GWB cant hold Griffin's jock when it comes to morality, and it aint even close.


So if it STRICTLY were to come down to trustworthiness, Bush is way at the back of the bus.

I am truly ashamed i voted for him.

Good job everyone! An absolute complete truther meltdown in less than 40 posts!

Roundhead, it is delicious that you are talking about fabrications, when you made three incredible whoppers in this thread!

"This snip from Griffin is at the heart of my question. I am not hear [sic] to defend him."

"I am open minded to the suggestion that they were."

"Help tip the scales to one side or the other for me, i have a very open mind about this."

I'm finished with this guy.