Converting from Christianity to Atheism

[Just Me]

Ultimately it all boils down to you, belief is like sexuality in that you can’t choose it, and to find what’s best for you, you need to try different things. I guess it’s like ice cream too, how do you know which flavor is your favorite without tasting a bunch.
snip

Sexually speaking, you should also probably find what is best for your partner(s).
The analogy used of sexuality can only be taken so far though.
A few weeks ago a mesa, arizona firefighter was discovered in a man's barn. With a sheep. The firefighter stood up and said, "You caught me. I was (rule 8) your sheep".
He was arrested for tresspasing. It seems bestiality is not a crime in mesa.

 

[westphalia]

A few weeks ago a mesa, arizona firefighter was discovered in a man's barn. With a sheep. The firefighter stood up and said, "You caught me. I was (rule 8) your sheep".
He was arrested for tresspasing. It seems bestiality is not a crime in mesa.

I heard that story on Distorted View. I guess there is no specific bestiality law in Arizona? It seems that if there had been one, they certainly had enough circumstantial evidence to charge him under it.

Can you imagine?

 

[Dogdoctor]

I heard that story on Distorted View. I guess there is no specific bestiality law in Arizona? It seems that if there had been one, they certainly had enough circumstantial evidence to charge him under it.

Can you imagine?

I am sure they could have charged him with some kind of sex crime with a minor since for sure the sheep wasn't old enough to vote.

 

[arthwollipot]

I didn't actually go through this process (thinking about converting - not bestiality with sheep - although I didn't actually go through that process either, and I can see now I'm just digging my hole deeper. Um, so to speak...)

For me it was very nearly a case of waking up one morning and realising that I was an atheist. There was no deep thought involved, although it had been building slowly over a number of years after I stopped going to church. I had thought I was an agnostic, but one day I suddenly realised that was no longer strictly accurate. Even though on a deeper level it actually is.

I think I'm just going to shut up now.

 

[Just Me]

I heard that story on Distorted View. I guess there is no specific bestiality law in Arizona? It seems that if there had been one, they certainly had enough circumstantial evidence to charge him under it.

Can you imagine?

A direct confession is a LOT more than circumstantial evidence.

 

[Just Me]

I didn't actually go through this process (thinking about converting - not bestiality with sheep - although I didn't actually go through that process either, and I can see now I'm just digging my hole deeper. Um, so to speak...)
snip.

I laughed so hard I got a 3 minute coughing fit![/I]

 

[Kopji]

LOL the Tempe sheep story never gets old.
Arizona legislators are still falling all over themselves trying to do something about it. Of course, about two months have passed with no action.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/0307deputychief-sheep07-ON.html

The most amazing thing in this is I found myself agreeing with Arpaio's comment at the end. I would think this could be prosecuted under animal cruelty statues except the sheep was found smoking a cigarette later with a smile on its face.

 

[Just Me]

LOL the Tempe sheep story never gets old.
Arizona legislators are still falling all over themselves trying to do something about it. Of course, about two months have passed with no action.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/0307deputychief-sheep07-ON.html

The most amazing thing in this is I found myself agreeing with Arpaio's comment at the end. I would think this could be prosecuted under animal cruelty statues except the sheep was found smoking a cigarette later with a smile on its face.

Wow, an intelligent sentence from Arpaio. And no mention of pink undies or green bologna.

 

[arthwollipot]

I laughed so hard I got a 3 minute coughing fit![/I]

Um... sorry?

 

[Diamond]

You celebrate that you are free from the guilt and fear that had been hanging over your head for all those years you'd been a believer. That is close to the path that I actually took in my departure from Christianity, except for the dragons.

For some reason I found this funny.

Dioptre:
Back to the original post, I was a fundamentalist Christian in my early twenties. Now I'm an agnostic. Or an apathetic atheist.

I did not convert to atheism/agnosticism. I de-converted piece by piece from Christianity. This is easy to do.

Why?

Because the object of religious belief on any kind is to suspend disbelief in the unreal. Think about it. Why do you go to church, bible study, fellowship or whatever on a regular weekly basis? Why are there so many exhortations to keep the faith, keep fellowship etc that you've heard? How many sermons have you heard about the perils of backsliding? Because reality represents a constant challenge to those religious beliefs. All the time. Every day. Why do so many sermons warn against reason and logic and the application of those things to the religion itself? Must people prefer insanity to sanity?

It's funny, but now as a naturalist and agnostic, I need no reinforcement, since my beliefs are congruent with testable reality. There is no cognitive dissonance. I don't need to meet with others to sing and dance about the law of gravity or the theory of evolution or the wonders of science. I don't spend any time on some ancient book of dubious history and morality looking for some secret pearls of wisdom.

I've stopped my membership of the "Self Watchers club". I'm no longer oscillating between self-loathing and extasy. I'm no longer under the gaze of the "All Seeing Eye". I'm no longer trying to cram my brain with absurd notions. I'm no longer plagued by guilt (which is really false guilt) over things I've done, things I should have done, thing I ought to have done. I am a lot easier on myself.

My life is not a bed of roses. I still have lots of things to struggle with, but it is 100% real and I accept no alternatives.

No-one taught me to become an agnostic. I'm still wary of the term atheist.

Plus, it frees up Wednesday evenings and the whole of Sunday.

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

* P: I believe in God
* A: Where's the testable evidence for God?
* P: God doesn't interfere directly in the world
* A: And there's an invisible dragon in my garage
* P: But God could act through people who believe

* A: So can my dragon.
* P: You're just being silly!
* A: (Picks up phone) Hello?, Skillet? I've got a message from the kettle...

LLH

 

[pipelineaudio]

Wow, an intelligent sentence from Arpaio. And no mention of pink undies or green bologna.

That IS his intelligent stuff

Wait till you see him when he jumps on PC bandwagon stuff its hillarious

 

[thaiboxerken]

Here is how I would handle this:


* P: I believe in God
* A: Which one?

* P: God doesn't interfere directly in the world
* A: Then why even care if that god exists or not?

* P: But God could act through people who believe
* A: Bullcrap.

* P: He does - the Gospels
* A: The bible is a book of mythology.


* P: I have faith
* A: Faith is admittance of defeat in a debate.

 

[Just Me]

That IS his intelligent stuff

Wait till you see him when he jumps on PC bandwagon stuff its hillarious

Luckily I moved out to Pinal so I no longer have to worry about him.

 

[Just Me]

Um... sorry?

When I laugh really hard I sometimes begin to cough. Be glad you didn't see me watch Wedding Crashers for the 1st time.

 

[arthwollipot]

Here is how I would handle this:


* P: I believe in God
* A: Which one?

* P: God doesn't interfere directly in the world
* A: Then why even care if that god exists or not?

* P: But God could act through people who believe
* A: Bullcrap.

* P: He does - the Gospels
* A: The bible is a book of mythology.


* P: I have faith
* A: Faith is admittance of defeat in a debate.

Unfortunately, none of these are convincing arguments.

 

[elliotfc]

What is the clear and consistent message of the Gospels that God is communicating, and why are there so many disagreements about it?

What is the clear and consistent message of the Gospels that God is communicating, and why are there so many disagreements about it?

Who do you say that I am? That's the question, isn't it? Of course there will be disagreements in answering that question.

I have my own particular answer, but I look at the gospels as the next step in a series of steps. In this context Christ is the New Covenant. If you look at the gospels by themselves you may not get that message. Or, you can take a verse like John 3:16, nominate that as the clear and consistent message, and see it validated throughout the text of all four gospels.

I think it's important that every individual find their own particular answer to this question. That we are given four gospels shows that the individual must interact and appreciate Christ's life in a unique way. Of course, as the gospels correspond for the most part, so should the Christian theologies. We can get most Christians to agree that God loves us, God sent his Son to die for us, and that it is important to spread this message to the world. Instead of worrying about the disagreements (which, relatively speaking, would be minor), that's how I'd answer your question.

-Elliot

 

[elliotfc]

Ultimately it all boils down to you, belief is like sexuality in that you can’t choose it, and to find what’s best for you, you need to try different things. I guess it’s like ice cream too, how do you know which flavor is your favorite without tasting a bunch.

No, you can choose what you believe and what you don't believe. People do it all the time.

-Elliot

 

[elliotfc]

I went through a similar process once. Not quite so logical, but when it came down to it, I was never able to convince myself that any of it was true, despite my best efforts. The only logical conclusion was that there were many things that were easily proven, and many things easily disproven, but this one things seemed to be impossibly difficult to prove, but so easy to disprove.

If belief is universal (I believe it is), standards and boundaries and filters are particular individual constructs to facilitate belief.

Personally, I don't see how "ease" has anything *essential* to do with this. The issue, say, of the gospels, may be difficult. Or simple. Whatever. Now, ease comes into play on the individual level. Occam's Razor can be a brilliant coping mechanism for some (coping mechanism not being a negative concept but a universal and necessary intellectual device) and mean nothing to another.

Any believer, and that includes myself, assert that there is proof for the Christian belief. The proof we accept, and that enables us to believe, is unsuitable for others. There is no such thing as *objective* proof. Things are, things happen, any connections are intellectual machinations. Water is wet, and if no intelligent beings were around to make a note of that, or prove that is some fashion, it wouldn't matter. Proof follows the facts, incidentally for that matter, and the facts don't need proof.

-Elliot

 

[elliotfc]

For me it was very nearly a case of waking up one morning and realising that I was an atheist. There was no deep thought involved, although it had been building slowly over a number of years after I stopped going to church. I had thought I was an agnostic, but one day I suddenly realised that was no longer strictly accurate. Even though on a deeper level it actually is.

I've had similar experiences. There's a spectrum. You can choose to believe, or be something, on one end. On the other end you can just realize that, unbeknownst to you, you are something. Or anything in between.

-Elliot