• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Contrail Observations

Parky, contrail formation and persistence has been the subject of scientific research since WWII, when military aircraft began routinely operating at altitudes high enough to form contrails, and air forces realized that they were effectively a great big sign saying "ATTENTION ENEMY PERSONS! WE'RE RIGHT HERE!". Predicting their formation and behavior is still the subject of serious research due to the possible environmental effects of increased artificial cloud cover.

Here's a site devoted to current research into contrail prediction:

http://contrail.gi.alaska.edu/

The first paper on the "publications" page gives an overview of contrail science from 1941 to the present; the confluence of theory and of work correlating contrail observations with atmospheric conditions at the altitudes the airplanes observed were flying ought to be enough to drive a nice big stake through the heart of the "persistent contrail = chemtrail" claims.

BTW, I personally observed contrails persisting and developing into a layer of cirrus back in the autumn of 1968, so whatever the eevil gummint is spraying on us must not be working any too quick. ;)
 
you could say the same for me. This was some fan mail I got for the video above...

"are you also a spy?
anyway. i disliked the tone, and only watched a few minutes of it (the other one)... are you suggesting that the NWO does *not* have an agenda to depopulate the planet? just because people don't agree what exactly the reason is doesn't make them wrong. We all have different reasons for hating bush, but the point remains the same: he f'n sucks.
and why do weather forecasts not have the chemtrails on the radar? maybe cuz people would ask "what the f is that s?!!?!" they obviously edit them out and hope that people keep NOT noticing the fact that large streams are suddenly coming out of planes nowadays and that's A-OKAY.
well, it's not f'n okay to me. making videos like these would only be preaching to your choir (very small choir, i imagine), because anybody who's researched it even a little sees there's something fishy *at the least* going on, and videos like that only get turned off prematurely. nobody wants to be talked to like they're an idiot and/ or child. i'm not an idiot nor a child, and others like me will feel the same if they saw that. you have your opinion, but that is NOT how you get somebody to take your side. if anything, it's repulsive, and not doing you any favors. once again, penn and teller. they talk like that, and hence i don't listen to them.
you can always tell the close-minded people by the way they talk about "conspiracy theorists." conspiracies *do* occur, mind you. just read history books. just ask julius caesar in the afterlife. and the more i research, the more i'm convinced that *other* deaths in history were more than likely also shrouded in lies and deceit. in fact, don't you think that's actually *more* likely than not, given that the victors writing the text we read obviously wanted to make themselves look great? oh, and the recent revelation that the JFK CTs were right all along? (it's okay: apologies not expected but gladly accepted anyway).
open your mind more. it's too great a thing to waste. you can spiritually handle the effect of actually being wrong in this world about some things."


all of that... because a black man said the whistles go woo.
 
Unsecured Coins said:
you could say the same for me. This was some fan mail I got for the video above...

"are you also a spy?
anyway. i disliked the tone, and only watched a few minutes of it (the other one)... are you suggesting that the NWO does *not* have an agenda to depopulate the planet? just because people don't agree what exactly the reason is doesn't make them wrong. We all have different reasons for hating bush, but the point remains the same: he f'n sucks.
and why do weather forecasts not have the chemtrails on the radar? maybe cuz people would ask "what the f is that s?!!?!" they obviously edit them out and hope that people keep NOT noticing the fact that large streams are suddenly coming out of planes nowadays and that's A-OKAY.
well, it's not f'n okay to me. making videos like these would only be preaching to your choir (very small choir, i imagine), because anybody who's researched it even a little sees there's something fishy *at the least* going on, and videos like that only get turned off prematurely. nobody wants to be talked to like they're an idiot and/ or child. i'm not an idiot nor a child, and others like me will feel the same if they saw that. you have your opinion, but that is NOT how you get somebody to take your side. if anything, it's repulsive, and not doing you any favors. once again, penn and teller. they talk like that, and hence i don't listen to them.
you can always tell the close-minded people by the way they talk about "conspiracy theorists." conspiracies *do* occur, mind you. just read history books. just ask julius caesar in the afterlife. and the more i research, the more i'm convinced that *other* deaths in history were more than likely also shrouded in lies and deceit. in fact, don't you think that's actually *more* likely than not, given that the victors writing the text we read obviously wanted to make themselves look great? oh, and the recent revelation that the JFK CTs were right all along? (it's okay: apologies not expected but gladly accepted anyway).
open your mind more. it's too great a thing to waste. you can spiritually handle the effect of actually being wrong in this world about some things."


all of that... because a black man said the whistles go woo.
Click to expand...
That was the most hilarious video I've ever seen. I bow down to your greatness.
 
parky76 said:
There was one very very high up...leaving a general contrail...the ones that dont disapate and are called "chemtrails".
Click to expand...
They're called "chemtrails" only by insane people. Normal folks call them "persistent contrails."


But then, as the plane left a large section of clouds, the contrails stoped. No more contrails.
Click to expand...
Well, since a contrail is basically a cloud, the same weather (temperature and humidity mostly, especially humidity) that causes the cloud to stick around without dissipating also makes the contrail stick around without dissipating.

How utterly... normal.
 
CurtC said:
They're called "chemtrails" only by insane people. Normal folks call them "persistent contrails."



Well, since a contrail is basically a cloud, the same weather (temperature and humidity mostly, especially humidity) that causes the cloud to stick around without dissipating also makes the contrail stick around without dissipating.

How utterly... normal.
Click to expand...

They are made of a chemical.. water is a chemical, right?
 
The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.
Click to expand...

From the book Flight To Arras by Antoine de Saint Exupery 1942, about a mission in 1940
 
Unsecured Coins said:
you could say the same for me. This was some fan mail I got for the video above...

... you can always tell the close-minded people by the way they talk about "conspiracy theorists." conspiracies *do* occur, mind you. ...
Click to expand...

I love it when Conspiracy Theorists have tried to claim that because the criminal act of Conspiracy To Commit XYZ exists, that we MUST believe Conspiracy Theories to be true. I've seen many of these CTers that show up here take that line. It's sad. Really sad.
 
LTC8K6 said:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930093080_1993093080.pdf

WW2 contrail study.
Click to expand...

I find this highly unconvincing. The typeface shows multiple artefacts that suggest that the PDF has been edited from the original word-processed document. There are no animations included, not even any colour photos, and there is no evidence that even a basic degree of computer modelling has been carried out to validate the conclusions. The fact that British and American observations are said to differ is in itself suspicious; does physics now vary according to which side of the Atlantic we're on? Overall I have to reject this study, as would any sincerely questioning researcher.

As for the anecdotal evidence from Antoine de Saint Exupery, a military pilot with known connections to the French intelligence services, this is clearly a biased source.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
As for the anecdotal evidence from Antoine de Saint Exupery, a military pilot with known connections to the French intelligence services, this is clearly a biased source.
Dave
Click to expand...

You mean, "The Little Prince" is not a reliable scientific source on the geology of asteroïds, the cultivation on giant baobabs, and the digestive process of grey elephants by African snakes?

You ruin the very foundations of my scientific education!
 
Just out of curiosity, at what altitude would contrails generally start? I'm asking because a couple of days ago as I was leaving work, I saw what I believe were a couple of C-130s flying low, low over my city and heading southbound. I can't guess their altitude, but I think I could've read their rudder markings had I not been looking directly at their rear at the time. A very, very rough guesstimate would be no higher than 3000 and no lower than 1000 feet.

Anyway, I remember seeing how low they were and that they were leaving vapor trails, and that made me think "Oh, great, now the loonies here are going to start in on chemtrails". For the record: No, I don't buy into the chemtrail lunacy, I got better fantasies to spend my mental currency on. Anyway, well after the fact, it hit me that I didn't know how low an aircraft could be and still leave vapor trails, but that I originally thought it was a high-altitude phenomenon. So, what range of altitudes would trails normally start, and under what conditions (barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, etc.)?
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Anyway, I remember seeing how low they were and that they were leaving vapor trails
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how low they can start, but were these that you saw coming from the engine exhaust, or from the wingtips? I've seen, especially at lower altitudes and high humidity, visible trails left by water vapor condensing in the wingtip vortices.
 
parky76 said:
. . .There was one very very high up...leaving a general contrail...the ones that dont disapate and are called "chemtrails". But then, as the plane left a large section of clouds, the contrails stoped. No more contrails.
Click to expand...

No more clouds either, huh?

Hmmm


Plane + area of clouds = persistent contrails.

Plane + area with no clouds = No contrails.

Who'd a thunk it.
 
Chemtrails? What utter and silly nonsense. But there is one thing bothering me about them that I can't seem to find a realistice explanation for. Anyone seen one? :covereyes
 
Last edited:
SpaceMonkeyZero said:
I love it when Conspiracy Theorists have tried to claim that because the criminal act of Conspiracy To Commit XYZ exists, that we MUST believe Conspiracy Theories to be true. I've seen many of these CTers that show up here take that line. It's sad. Really sad.
Click to expand...

Oh there are plenty of conspiracies. They are just never that interesting. Nixon tried to keep a lid on the fact that he had some of his staff members engaged in some illegal activities. Then they caught some burglers and found they had connections to the white house and it fell apart.

The governor of Connecticut (where I live) had to step down and ended up going to prison after he accepted some gifts from contractors, including a hot tub and a new deck for his house and then attempted to hide the fact that they were installed for free by the same contractors who did work for the state.


Representative Dan Rostencowski apparently embezzled a whole bunch of money from the US post office.

Bill Clinton may have told an intern (to paraphrase). "Don't go telling people about those BJ's you gave me" Which is kinda something you could take as asking her to lie to investigators.... kinda.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Anyway, well after the fact, it hit me that I didn't know how low an aircraft could be and still leave vapor trails, but that I originally thought it was a high-altitude phenomenon. So, what range of altitudes would trails normally start, and under what conditions (barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, etc.)?
Click to expand...

The USAF Weather folks have a formula for predicting them, but I don't know what it is. Exhaust contrails are generally limited to fairly high altitude(say above 25,000 MSL), but wing tip contrails can easily form at very low altitude with high angles of attack. It is quite common to see them during high humidity conditions.

Here's a descent article from NASA....

http://enso.larc.nasa.gov/sass/contrail_forecast/contrail_prediction.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom