Contradictions in the Bible

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by ceo_esq
I don't necessarily distinguish them, but does an Erector Set have either one?

If humans only have the appearance of free will, then they are no different from an erector set, regardless of whether they think they are, and regardless of what the erector set thinks.

 

[pgwenthold]

I didn't mean to imply that "God" actually gave us "free will", simply that something like that happened in the story of which timokay, Beerina et al. were trying to make sense.

BTW, where does it actually say in the bible that humans have free will?

I know that God has certainly controlled actions (hardening Pharoah's heart) and some would argue that the claim that God knows everything that is going to happen is inconsistent with free will in the first place.

Is there somewhere in the bible that actually claims "we have free will," or has that been added to the story to rationalize the problem of evil?

 

[timokay]

BTW, where does it actually say in the bible that humans have free will?

I know that God has certainly controlled actions (hardening Pharoah's heart) and some would argue that the claim that God knows everything that is going to happen is inconsistent with free will in the first place.

Is there somewhere in the bible that actually claims "we have free will," or has that been added to the story to rationalize the problem of evil?

Whether or not God "controls" us or not, he certainly knows what is in our "hearts" (if you follow along that line), and if there was sin in the heart of Adam and Eve, or the capacity for it, then he put it there, and did not make perfection.

If it is all part of a plan, then God needs to take a couple of management classes. Unless Tony Robbins IS God. He sure has the jawline.

 

[ceo_esq]

If humans only have the appearance of free will, then they are no different from an erector set, regardless of whether they think they are, and regardless of what the erector set thinks.

True enough, but tangential to my earlier comment. Since Erector Sets lack even the appearance of free will, it strikes me as curious to hold, as Beerina did, that the account of human activity offered in the Bible is especially reminiscent of an Erector Set. Especially given that, arguably, no human mind has the subjective perception (whether or not actually correct) of lacking free will, it seems counterintuitive that a human being would read the Bible and naturally be put in mind of an Erector Set.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

True enough, but tangential to my earlier comment. Since Erector Sets lack even the appearance of free will, it strikes me as curious to hold, as Beerina did, that the account of human activity offered in the Bible is especially reminiscent of an Erector Set. Especially given that, arguably, no human mind has the subjective perception (whether or not actually correct) of lacking free will, it seems counterintuitive that a human being would read the Bible and naturally be put in mind of an Erector Set.

I think you lost the point Of Beerina's post, which compared God creating the Earth, to a brat playing with an Erector Set; then you threw in the ' free will thing ', as it applied to an Erector Set, which is like saying that dirt has free will.. We made the mistake of playing along, and not pointing this out earlier...


What we need to do, is give the Army Men, who inhabit the Erector Set world free will, then try this again.