Continued: (Ed) Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

Is this a conversation that's actually ever happened?

Yes. I've had it twice, both times at university, oddly enough.

Not the exact words obviously, but the sentiment behind them.

If one only objects to factory farms then one could try to continue eating meat but simply try to avoid factory farm sourced meat, I agree. But in most situations this would mean not eating meat as a dinner guest,

Aside from getting a big bag of cheap mince for thrown together meals, I don't know many people who don't buy from at the very least quality assured supermarket farms that provide provenance. I'm not even talking about the most upmarket supermarkets either, even ASDA (a member of the Wal*Mart family as it's obnoxiously termed) has this for all of it's things like chicken breasts and steaks. They may not come from super high quality small farms like the one I work with, but nor do they come from "pack 2000 pigs in a small pen and force feed them slurry" farms.


not eating meat at restaurants

Maybe it's just e, but apart from the odd visit to Subway, most restaurants I know have their butcher mentioned somewhere on the menu, even in eating pubs I go to. When I say butcher, I mean butcher too, not just El Cheapo buy it by the ton places. For instance the pub closest to me, now a steak and ale house, proudly proclaims it buys all it's meat from a local butcher well known for sourcing all of his meat from the local mid-size farms.

I live right out in the sticks, surrounded by farms and I can't think of any that aren't in the same vein as the one I work at. I could well be wrong, and I don't disagree that factory farms exist even in the UK, but I can't think of any near to me. I even know two of the farmers personally.



and not buying meat from stores
As I mentioned above, even our Wal*Mart owned supermarket provides provenance for the meat it sells apart from the super cheap stuff. Even the sausages are given a single farm of origin, unless you're buying the super cheap value brand. We're hardly talking Whole Foods here.

unless one knows exactly where it came from. I can see why one might consider it simpler to just go vegetarian.
If you are on a very restricted budget, or consider McDonalds a restaurant then yeah, I suppose, but my family are hardly rich and if I went to our fridges and freezers right now, I can only think of maybe one bag of sausages (Richmond brand Irish sausages) that won't have the name of the farm and farmer that the meat came from on the packaging. I remember from my time in the US that it's hell to work out where your supermarket produce came from outside of places like Whole Foods and the like, but we do it here.

There are others who object to both factory farm and non-factory farm sourced meat. Many people who feel this way would agree that factory farms are worse than other types of animal farming, but still not be okay with either.

Which I mentioned already, so I don't understand why you felt the need to mention this.
 
While they sound like idiots, I consider it a challenge!

Factory farms are a product of our high and increasing net demand for animal products. Reducing demand will be the most direct and effective way to fight them. To maximize your reduction go vegan.

(Real mega-post incoming)
 
Since when eating a BigMac enters you in the league of war criminals? So what if PZ go vegan? How is this going to change anything? Next, is he going to tell us to buy our shirts at John Lewis and if we do not, we are banned from the atheist community as sponsoring child labour!

As a disclaimer, I had veal sausages in a restaurant next to Red Square in Moscow last night. It was delicious!
 
Since when eating a BigMac enters you in the league of war criminals? So what if PZ go vegan? How is this going to change anything? Next, is he going to tell us to buy our shirts at John Lewis and if we do not, we are banned from the atheist community as sponsoring child labour!

Holy straw man... :boggled:
 
What does vegetarianism has to do with atheism?
Not Atheism, but Atheism Plus.

Atheism plus social justice
Atheism plus vegetarianism

To quote Carrier, you're either with us, or against us. You are either a meat-eater (bad!) or a vegetarian (good!)
 
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I'm curious as to whether this requires the same convenient morality as the Former (Bad!) PZ who made sexual innuendos now deemed inappropriate by New Improved PZ With Acti-Fem (Good!)

Are we all condemned to "Bad!" now that PZ has turned to "Good!" or will there be some leeway in lieu of different strokes for different folks? I'm very interested in seeing if the Plussers start turning out omnivores and meat eaters.
 
Are we all condemned to "Bad!" now that PZ has turned to "Good!" or will there be some leeway in lieu of different strokes for different folks? I'm very interested in seeing if the Plussers start turning out omnivores and meat eaters.


I always find interesting this reach for "purity"; this seems to be the trait of either the extreme right or left of the political spectrum. This is my opinion that this the reason that any thread that challenge this purity is either dismissed or closed.

It will be interesting to see how the "I, psychopath" thread will be dealt with.
 
Well if meat is evil, you can jump to this conclusion.

No, you can't.

Plus, I don't believe that was even stated.

Not Atheism, but Atheism Plus.

Atheism plus social justice
Atheism plus vegetarianism

To quote Carrier, you're either with us, or against us. You are either a meat-eater (bad!) or a vegetarian (good!)

Cite? Or are you just throwing the vegetarianism thing in as a hypothetical?

I'm curious as to whether this requires the same convenient morality as the Former (Bad!) PZ who made sexual innuendos now deemed inappropriate by New Improved PZ With Acti-Fem (Good!)

Are we all condemned to "Bad!" now that PZ has turned to "Good!" or will there be some leeway in lieu of different strokes for different folks? I'm very interested in seeing if the Plussers start turning out omnivores and meat eaters.

I doubt it just because I don't think the majority of pharyngulites (or the majority of SJWs in general) are vegetarians. And many of them have been known to complain about vegetarian talk triggering their eating disorders or that it's impossible for someone with their income/mental condition/whatever.
 
No, you can't.

Plus, I don't believe that was even stated.



Cite? Or are you just throwing the vegetarianism thing in as a hypothetical?



I doubt it just because I don't think the majority of pharyngulites (or the majority of SJWs in general) are vegetarians. And many of them have been known to complain about vegetarian talk triggering their eating disorders or that it's impossible for someone with their income/mental condition/whatever.

The majority that commented were not only vegetarians but militant ones.
 
Not Atheism, but Atheism Plus.

Atheism plus social justice
Atheism plus vegetarianism

To quote Carrier, you're either with us, or against us. You are either a meat-eater (bad!) or a vegetarian (good!)

I'm a strict vegetarian...

But only between meals.

-
 
I made two comments and was roundly pharyngulated, looked to be running 10 to 2 in favor of veggism.

Your comments were rightly rebutted IMO. It looked like the same things you've been saying in this thread that, to me, seemed to make no sense. "You're acting morally superior by posting that", "you should've posted scientific evidence for your decision not to eat meat", etc (paraphrasing).

There were a lot of veg-positive posts in the thread from non-vegetarians. And PZ as well as some others seemed to be emphasizing the "this is just my choice, I'm not saying meat eaters are bad, blah blah.." message. Things PZ would never say with respect to social justice issues. So it'll be interesting to see if it evolves any further. I'm skeptical that it will, but it's certainly possible.
 

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