Continuation: 'What about building 7?'

Chris, if you recognize and understand what I am saying about fossil fuels and climate change and that it is the oil companies who are in a position to change things then we are on the same page.

I am not saying we have to completely get rid of fossil fuels, but to limit their use ultimately to where we need them. This will allow us to husband what is left so it lasts longer, while we transition to biofuels for where liquid fuel will be necessary. You can't power planes or ships with electric only. They will always need liquid fuels or in the case of ships nuclear can work as it is inherently safe being in water for cooling if it sinks.

I propose all electric utilities who use steam turbine generators go the way that Florida Power and Light is doing with parabolic solar reflectors and natural gas to make steam for their turbines. Wind mills can replace coal mines in West Virginia and elsewhere while keeping more than enough jobs in the communities. West Virginia has a lot of hills and that is good for wind power as it reduces the friction and lets the wind speed pick up more so than over flat land.

I also don't think the actual people behind 911 (those with oil interests) were necessarily evil, but rather that they may have thought they had no other out. They should now realize there is and move in that direction. They can be forgiven for their blindness if they thought they were doing the right thing for humanity and did not realize there were viable alternatives in the 1990's when the 911 plan would have been formulated. However, they can not be forgiven once they know there are viable alternatives now in 2015 if they don't take them.

I do think a lot of what is said on here is to keep the conversation muddied so no action is ever taken. What I am doing is appealing to the human side of those making these decisions and bringing the alternatives and their viability to their attention. There is a better way and we are all ultimately in it together. Nobody will escape the consequences of climate change if we don't do what we can to get back to break even with carbon dioxide and wars for oil aren't right or smart if they aren't necessary.

I personally am somewhat done with arguing the minutia as it is clearly about energy and whether we stay mainly with fossil fuels or diversify and solve the carbon dioxide overabundance in the atmosphere problem. I hope those in control will do the right thing and pick the latter.

You are confused about the reasons for 9/11... it was blow back resulting from hegemonic policies... also related to oil and energy "needs" and the profits associated with them. But it was done by disgruntled Islamists who wanted the USA out of the ME and to some extent a just settlement of the Israeli - Palestinian dispute.

The same 1% control the narrative no matter what the cause... and you surely don't think they would expose or re think our ME polices do you? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO they would use 9/11 as an OPPORTUNITY to continue on the same policies... increasing the animus in the region toward the US.

It completely absurd to think this was an inside job... and there is no evidence for it. The MIC is perfectly OK with regional conflicts... and even terrorism... it is their life blood.

Read The Shock Doctrine - the Rise of Disaster Capitalism

And stop deluding yourself with nonsense.
 
The bearings and housings can be made rigid enough to avoid problems with turbulence.

Wind mills designed several decades ago had fatigue problems and it was learned that they need to be designed to avoid resonance and fatigue like aircraft. I believe that has been done and don't think you are as up to date on it as you suppose you are.

Getting the people in control to move in the right direction is just as much a part of solving real world problems as generating a design that does it too. If they won't use the design what's the use?

Rigid bearings and housings are the problem what is needed is a more fluidic bearing that allows for the absobtion of the turbulence energy with out damage to the turbine blades,
Shafts and generators.

The turbine blade shaft need to move disapating the energy as motion without damage
As aircraft do.

Aircraft are not grounded to fixed foundations, and can dissipate energy though movement of the plane.
 
Dayum,these questions slip out of sight fast! No wonder Tony has dodged them since page 10!


Tony, do you accept my claim as true that the WTC7 south face had a HUGE GASH down many floors, as reported by fire fighters on the scene, and as descibed in the NIST report?

According to your engineering assessment, would you agree that ripping a HUGE GASH down the face of a building and damaging floors doing so might frustrate designs to prevent vertical spread of fire?

Are you saying that Jowenko's lack of detailed knowledge of circumstances is reason to reject his expert opinion?
(Hint: This is a Yes/No question. No need to write another full paragraph that avoids answering the actual question.)

What if the wall broke 8 floors above ground, and then the upper part fell on inside of the lower part wall? The 8 stories worth of standing columns would then not support anything.


Thank you.[/QUOTE]
 
So how much of an expansion gap is there between the girder and the column face?


dontsweat_zps941e5ce6.jpg
 
Logic 101 FAIL ........seems to be a common trait among troofers. :rolleyes:

I really can't figure out what Tony means when he uses the word "logic," but apparently he thinks unsound premises and invalid inferences can be corrected by repetition.
 
To summarize, the evidence for WTC 7 CD is:
  1. The building came down in a symmetric free fall
  2. Simultaneous removal of all 24 core columns over a number of stories low in the building.
  3. NIST model does not replicate the free fall or actual building condition during the failure
  4. "...The report needed to omit pertinent structural features to even make it superficially plausible, negat[ing] the NIST WTC 7 report as a viable explanation."
  5. The Building was set on fire intentionally by arsonists
    - Said arsonists used thermite as the ignition agent
    - No graphic evidence of fire for at least 2 hours after the collapse of the towers?
  6. Explosions inside the building long before the collapse
  7. The fires in WTC 1 were "limited"
  8. The horizontal propagation of the failure in WTC 1 (the North Tower) occurs in less than a second across the entire 98th floor
  9. The fall of the upper section shows no sign of deceleration during its fall... meaning some form of demolition devices were removing the structural integrity below the falling mass above.
  10. The motivation for setting up the attacks was for the] U.S. military to remove governments involved in oil and gas production and pipelines that were not friendly to certain U.S. fossil fuel corporations.
  11. Everyone disagreeing with the CD hypothesis is either a shill or an idiot
  12. Using a forum nickname automatically renders a counterargument wrong.

Do I have this list correct?

I think you missed four important ones:

13. The arson was necessary to destroy files held by the SEC concerning investigations into companies the conspirators did not want investigated.
14. The demolition was necessary to cover up evidence of arson.
15. The cause of the demolition was deliberately covered up, because for some unstated reason it's easy to rig a building collapse investigation but not an arson investigation.

And the clincher:

16. Because Tony Szamboti said so, and he's cleverer than everyone else put together. He just is.

Dave
 
I think you missed four important ones:

13. The arson was necessary to destroy files held by the SEC concerning investigations into companies the conspirators did not want investigated.
14. The demolition was necessary to cover up evidence of arson.
15. The cause of the demolition was deliberately covered up, because for some unstated reason it's easy to rig a building collapse investigation but not an arson investigation.

And the clincher:

16. Because Tony Szamboti said so, and he's cleverer than everyone else put together. He just is.

Dave

That's logic.
 
And how much expansion will the C79-44 girder experience according to your program?

That as well as the column distortion is greatly Dependant on where the fire is placed and how intense it is however it is closed to the observed expansion NIST expressed,
The only difference is column distortion, do to radiant heating and fluidic cooling.
One side will face the heat souce and gain heat the other side will lose heat to the air.
 
And how much expansion will the C79-44 girder experience according to your program?

dontsweat_zps941e5ce6.jpg
how true.

Especially when:
1) They haven’t proved that the column was in the original location;
2) Even if they are right on girder walk off the next step is false - it does not falsify the reminder of the NIST explanation; OR
3) They have not established that any such error of detail goes close to warranting further investigation; AND
4) None of it proves CD.

But you knew all of that....

...and they are only "sweating the small stuff" to keep us busy because they cannot argue the real issues.

The real question remains - "Why do we waste time feeding trolls egos by responding to nonsense?"
 
There is significant logic in what I am saying and your dismissal of it shows you to be a closed minded person with an agenda that isn't altruistic. It isn't hard to imagine you don't believe in God.

Did you really just deploy the argument that people who don't believe your claims must therefore be closed-minded atheists?
 
That as well as the column distortion is greatly Dependant on where the fire is placed and how intense it is however it is closed to the observed expansion NIST expressed,
The only difference is column distortion, do to radiant heating and fluidic cooling.
One side will face the heat souce and gain heat the other side will lose heat to the air.
Be interesting if he addresses that long overdue error of T Sz's.
 
What time were Barry Jennings and Michael Hess gotten out of Building 7 by the fire dept.? I think it was between 11:00 and 11:30 and the firefighters went through the building to get to them and brought them back down through it. Jennings and Hess were on the 8th floor and there were no fires on it or the 7th floor at that time and none were observed anywhere in the building until 12:15.

Explosions will generate smoke and heat but not necessarily fire. However, the "fire did it" theory supporters here won't allow for the explosions Jennings said he experienced. They would try to say it was due to the North Tower collapse, even though Jennings said both towers were still standing when it first happened.

Tony, in CDs the explosion and the collapse happen close together since the explosion is causing the collapse. How did an explosion happening hours before cause the collapse?
 
The logic shows it had to be arson.

if one thinks like a detective that is the only possible conclusion for how the fires in WTC 7 were started.

Humm... no gunshot, no powder residue, no gun, no gun wound, obviously the victim was shot to death!
 
how true.

Especially when:
1) They haven’t proved that the column was in the original location;
2) Even if they are right on girder walk off the next step is false - it does not falsify the reminder of the NIST explanation; OR
3) They have not established that any such error of detail goes close to warranting further investigation; AND
4) None of it proves CD.

But you knew all of that....

...and they are only "sweating the small stuff" to keep us busy because they cannot argue the real issues.

The real question remains - "Why do we waste time feeding trolls egos by responding to nonsense?"

The fault lies not in the trolls ego but in our own.
 
Dayum,these questions slip out of sight fast! No wonder Tony has dodged them since page 10!

Yes they do. I will have to check the last page or so but in the several instances of my asking, Tony had not even acknowledged my question about how much time that gypsum dust created by collapse had, to pile onto and smother burning materials on the four or more 1 acre office spaces involved in large area fires.
 
The argument here that WTC 7 was anything but a controlled demolition is pure bogus nonsense.
In fact the ONLY evidence and investigations that have been collected or done indicate that it fell as a result of fires started when burning debris from WTC7 entered in through the huge number of broken windows and south face of the building. CD us absolutely the fantastic creation of paranoid minds that have to view the world in a very skewed fashion.

The fact that the exterior of the building comes down in a symmetric free fall can't possibly have been caused by anything but controlled demolition by the simultaneous removal of all 24 core columns over a number of stories low in the building.
A fiction created wholly in minds dominated by personal incredulity. Not demonstrated by any forensic engineering study whatsoever.

The fact that the NIST model does not replicate the free fall or actual building condition during the failure and has severe exterior deformation, which is not observed in the actual collapse, along with it being discovered that those who authored the report needed to omit pertinent structural features to even make it superficially plausible, negates the NIST WTC 7 report as a viable explanation.
More personal incredulity and ignorant expectation of the FEA capability. Criticism not borne out by any attempt at all to create a comparable FEA.

If WTC 7 had some form of demolition devices in it they had to be pre-positioned before Sept. 11, 2001. This means it was a planned event.
Assumes the fiction of CD. Fiction on top of fiction, absolutely no evidence whatsoever to base it upon.

The horizontal propagation of the failure in WTC 1 (the North Tower) occurs in less than a second across the entire 98th floor which is virtually impossible to have happen naturally, and the fall of the upper section shows no sign of deceleration during its fall, meaning it could not be a naturally produced vertical propagation and that some form of demolition devices were removing the structural integrity below the falling mass above.
Personal incredulity not borne out by any attempt to model the collapse. Pure unadulterated fiction.

Finally, the results of 911 were the use of the U.S. military to remove governments involved in oil and gas production and pipelines that were not friendly to certain U.S. fossil fuel corporations.
Wrong thread
However, probably correct and in no way requiring that any group other than a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organization that had as its core raison d'etre, to rid the M.E. of all western influence and had publically declared war on the USA and western countries long before September 2001.

Most sane and rational people have acknowledged that we have a carbon dioxide overabundance problem in the earth's atmosphere that is being caused by excessive consumption of fossil fuels, that this excessive carbon dioxide is preventing heat from being radiated back to space in the right proportion and causing a global temperature rise and climate change. They also recognize that the only way to curb it is to go to cleaner energy technologies and electric cars in massive ways to get to break even. We don't need to eliminate carbon dioxide in the atmosphere but only keep it to where the trees and vegetation can keep it in the proper balance.
Wrong thread.
However in large part true as long as that electricity is not derived by burning those same fossil fuels.

It is clear that 911 was done for oil corporation purposes and the sad part on top of that is that they were trying to get the public to deny climate change. Ultimately, climate change will lead to massive problems for everyone if it is not addressed.
Wrong thread.
First part , paranoid fiction, second part probably true.

Most realize that the wealthy perpetrators of 911 will never be indicted or even publicly exposed. However, they do have a moral obligation to humanity in general, which includes their own children and grandchildren. They have the money to make a difference and can move us forward. They can induce the use of clean energy and natural gas to get the carbon dioxide levels down below break even and most would not mind them making a profit doing it. The Rockefeller family recently moved its trust fund investments into renewable clean energies.
Glad to know the Rockefeller's are not part of this shadow group of evil powder brokers.

We can make all of the electric we could ever use with wind, solar, tidal turbines, parabolic solar reflectors, and even natural gas (which is much more abundant than petroleum and much cleaner) and this can power electric cars. With about 50% electric cars and clean energy powering them we will probably get below break even with carbon dioxide. However, the investment money for the clean energy and electric car infrastructure needs to come from those with it and that is the oil companies. They need to become "energy companies", as they were at least hinting at a few years ago, and help move us back from the abyss.
So, the Rockefellers?

This is what the 911 shills here should be telling their bosses instead of trying to incessantly spin away from and cover up the obvious controlled demolitions of the three buildings in NYC on Sept. 11,2001. We know there won't be any indictments or trials so just do the right thing overall. Even David Ray Griffin mentioned a truth and reconciliation commission with immunity like what was done in South Africa. Even if that doesn't happen, hopefully the oil barons will do the right thing. We will be watching.

More fiction. Opines that those who disagree with the pure fictions generated by 911T are part of a continuing disinformation campaign. Just how many actual people are supposedly involved in these nefarious shenanigans?

,, and where does I gets my money?
 

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