Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

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Geeeezzz your right RC ...bit of a rant snipped...
Soll88: That science is easily understood by rational prople who bother to understand what they read and cite.

Your delusion that comets are rocks remains just that after 6 years.

More delusions about the observation of the collection of tiny amounts of water in the shadows of craters on the Moon over billions of years has anything to do comets is new though :p!
 
That is a lie, Sol88.
jonesdave116 asked for evidence of the EC delusion about electrical discharges producing water on asteroids.
You have cited nothing about electrical discharges.
You have cited the well known evidence that the dwarf planet Ceres contains ice. This was first suspected in 2002. And then "In January 2014, emissions of water vapor were detected from several regions of Ceres.[20] This was unexpected, because large bodies in the asteroid belt do not typically emit vapor, a hallmark of comets.".
Now we have Dawn and the possible detection of exposed water ice as a source for that water vapor.
 
The process is ubiquitous on rocky bodies with no magnetic field...on comets and Asteroids...the Moon and Mercury.
That is a lie and a delusion, Sol88.
  • You have only cited the detection of water in the shadows of craters on the Moon. This is off-topic because the Moon is not a comet :jaw-dropp!
    You have not cited any detection of water in the shadows of craters on comets.
    You have not cited any detection of water in the shadows of craters on asteroids.
    You have not cited any detection of water in the shadows of craters on Mercury.
  • A 6 year old delusion that comets are rocky bodies does not make them into rocky bodies.
 
Ok then...
Yes, Sol88, we know that astronomers are not delusional. They know the comets are made of ices and dust. They see cracks on 67P and know that these are cracks in ices and dust.
But we know that explaining this to you is fruitless: 28 July 2015 Sol88: You are too obsessed with your delusion that comets are rocks to ever accept any explanation for anything from anyone.

40 days and counting of being afraid of doing simple physics:
25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.
 
Time for Sol88 to rant about comets being rocks one more time :p!
What a Comet Looks Like … From 9 Meters Away!
When I saw these images the hair on the back of my neck stood up. These photos may not look like much at first, but when you realize you’re seeing the surface of a comet hundreds of millions of kilometers from Earth, and can see objects as small as a centimeter across … well, I hope your brain gets that same electric shock mine did.
...
This shot was taken when the lander was a mere 9 meters—30 feet—from the surface of the comet. The area you’re seeing is 9.7 meters across, about the size of one half of a tennis court. It shows that the surface is covered in a coarse regolith (loose material that hasn’t consolidated into a solid mass; we see similar surfaces on airless bodies like the Moon), and rocks of various sizes, ranging from centimeters to meters across. You can also see material of different darkness; some are quite dark while others are reflective.
 
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Will somebody in the EU camp PLEASE answer the *********** question?
How do "energetic Jets" NOT ALTER the orbit of the body (Comet, whatever) significantly?
 
Time for Sol88 to rant about comets being rocks one more time :p!
What a Comet Looks Like … From 9 Meters Away!

The dust component may be comparable, from the dielectric properties, to that of carbonaceous chondritic meteorites.
LINK

These images reveal a fractured surface with complex structure and a variety of grain scales and albedos, possibly constituting pristine cometary material.
LINK

Taken together, these first measurements performed at the surface of 67P profoundly modify our view of comets.
LINK

The average permittivity is about 1.27, suggesting that this region has a volumetric dust/ice ratio of 0.4 to 2.6 and a porosity of 75 to 85%.
LINK

These data also provide information on the mechanical properties (strength and layering) of the comet surface. The first touchdown site, Agilkia, appears to have a granular soft surface (with a compressive strength of 1 kilopascal) at least ~20 cm thick, possibly on top of a more rigid layer. The final landing site, Abydos, has a hard surface.
LINK

and...

Strongly-consolidated regions represent the most common region type on both lobes. Most of these regions show variable degrees of fracturing, which include irregular
or regular systems as well as ,polygonal, conjugate,regularly intersecting or ortho-rombic networks. The ubiquitous presence of fractured materials on the surface of the comet is of paramount significance for a body that displays a very low bulk density of ~0.5 kg/m3
[2], and high surface temperatures suggestive of a dry, porous, and poorly thermally conductive surface [8].
LINK

Houston we have a problem....with the sublimation theory of dirtysnowballs!!
 
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or to put it simply, for Reality Check

Taking this statement
and high surface temperatures suggestive of a dry, porous, and poorly thermally conductive surface [8].
how do you reconcile this
The water ions themselves originate in the coma, the atmosphere of the comet. They are placed there originally by heat from the Sun liberating the molecules from the surface ice.
LINK


??
 
or to put it simply, for Reality Check

Taking this statement how do you reconcile this LINK

??

So we have to explain basic science to you yet again?
Low thermal inertia means that a surface will have larger differences in temperature between day and night, than a surface of high thermal inertia. This has been known about at comets for a long time, and is expected for a dust covered surface.
Water ions are H2O+, derived from H2O. As the article explained, "They are placed there originally by heat from the Sun liberating the molecules from the surface ice. Once in gaseous form, the collision of extreme ultraviolet light displaces electrons from the molecules, turning them into ions."

Not rocket science.
 
"The dust component may be comparable, from the dielectric properties, to that of carbonaceous chondritic meteorites."

Carbonaceous chondrites: "...have not undergone significant heating (>200°C) since they formed, and their compositions are considered to be close to that of the solar nebula from which the Solar System condensed." Without trawling through all my papers from this mission, I seem to remember that the K/Na ratio in the sputtered products most resembled CCs as well. This is an argument for a primeval origin of comets, and argues against them being blasted off a planet. Not sure why you'd bring it up.

"These images reveal a fractured surface with complex structure and a variety of grain scales and albedos, possibly constituting pristine cometary material."
So? And the point is? Nothing there for the EC fantasy.

"Taken together, these first measurements performed at the surface of 67P profoundly modify our view of comets."

Again, so? They have found things out that they didn't know previously. That is why we do missions like this. As the next sentence says, "67P is nonmagnetized on a scale of less than a meter.....", again, an argument against electric woo. Hard sintered ice may have been a surprise as well. None of this helps EC.

"The average permittivity is about 1.27, suggesting that this region has a volumetric dust/ice ratio of 0.4 to 2.6 and a porosity of 75 to 85%."

Again, I fail to see what you're point is. The ratio of dust to ice is somewhere between 0.4:1 and 2.6:1, if I read it correctly. The porosity of the lobe is 75-85%. Which we've been telling you all along, to account for the density. It is a huge dollop of proof that this isn't a rock.

"These data also provide information on the mechanical properties (strength and layering) of the comet surface. The first touchdown site, Agilkia, appears to have a granular soft surface (with a compressive strength of 1 kilopascal) at least ~20 cm thick, possibly on top of a more rigid layer. The final landing site, Abydos, has a hard surface."

So, the first place it touched down had a thick dust layer, over harder sintered ice below, and the final resting place didn't have the thick dust layer. Nothing Earth shattering there.

"Strongly-consolidated regions represent the most common region type on both lobes. Most of these regions show variable degrees of fracturing, which include irregular or regular systems as well as ,polygonal, conjugate, regularly intersecting or ortho-rombic networks. The ubiquitous presence of fractured materials on the surface of the comet is of paramount significance for a body that displays a very low bulk density of ~0.5 kg/m3 [2], and high surface temperatures suggestive of a dry, porous, and poorly thermally conductive surface [8]."

Again, so what? From the published paper (the above was just from a poster presentation); "Tensile fractures develop in materials through two common processes: 1) loss of volatile material (e.g. desiccation), and 2) thermal contraction/expansion. The near vacuum conditions and the high fluctuations in temperature on diurnal and seasonal scales (from <80 °K in shadow to ~350 °K in illuminated regions near perihelion) suggest that thermal contraction/expansion or insolation weathering is the most likely candidate in forming these types of fractures. Nonetheless, the effect of sublimation-driven desiccation of an ice-rich material should be further investigated to assess its feasibility and extent."
And as for the "significance", they explain that "The presence of fractures on the surface potentially formed by thermal insolation weathering may indicate considerable compositional and structural heterogeneity. Alternatively, it may indicate the presence of thin dusty coatings overlying materials of higher thermal inertia and ability to fracture." So that would likely be the sintered dust/ ice mixture below. Again, nothing here for the EC idea.

Pretty much everything you highlighted are actually arguments against it!

So, do please spell out the problems for the sublimation theory, as seen by a non-scientist, because I can't see it.
 
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So we have to explain basic science to you yet again?
Low thermal inertia means that a surface will have larger differences in temperature between day and night, than a surface of high thermal inertia. This has been known about at comets for a long time, and is expected for a dust covered surface.
Water ions are H2O+, derived from H2O. As the article explained, "They are placed there originally by heat from the Sun liberating the molecules from the surface ice. Once in gaseous form, the collision of extreme ultraviolet light displaces electrons from the molecules, turning them into ions."

Not rocket science.



Sorry, looks like YOU are going to have to explain to me again how the heat from the sun makes it thru the high surface temperatures suggestive of a dry, porous, and poorly thermally conductive surface to the HIDDEN sintered ice to form pressurised jets out past 3.0 AU and 25.7 AU in the case of Hale-Bopp

Should be good :rolleyes:


Have a crack at how the heat from the sun makes it down into the "jet pits" walls?


Now where is that surface ice?
 
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Again, I fail to see what you're point is. The ratio of dust to ice is somewhere between 0.4:1 and 2.6:1, if I read it correctly. The porosity of the lobe is 75-85%. Which we've been telling you all along, to account for the density. It is a huge dollop of proof that this isn't a rock.

and the MUPUS couldn't penetrate into PUMICE????


Basically everything has been a surprise for you (mainstream) and the EU are just ticking them off one by one...

ice screws...that's a good one!

All three systems failed to keep Philae on the surface but nothing else failed???

And the first CIVA images were of ROCK (strongly consolidated material) that has a lot in common with asteroids.
 
Cats now out of the bag now HOLGER SIERKS!

Now one here going to have a crack at how the cliffs drive the jets?

Pressure is on YOU to explain YOUR SUBLIMATION theory.

You REQUIRE subsurface ice!

You REQUIRE pressurised chambers!

You REQUIRE the nozzle to be of a smaller diameter to the chamber, to sustain the jets!

So how do the cliffs drive the activity?

and why would the OSIRIS team not release the images after a year of observation???


People are asking..


Well looks like they (OSIRIS) have low and behold http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2014/06/comet_on_4_june/14582721-1-eng-GB/Comet_on_4_June_node_full_image_2.png

and there you have it PROOF comets are electric discharge phenomena!
 
Sorry, looks like YOU are going to have to explain to me again how the heat from the sun makes it thru the high surface temperatures suggestive of a dry, porous, and poorly thermally conductive surface to the HIDDEN sintered ice to form pressurised jets out past 3.0 AU and 25.7 AU in the case of Hale-Bopp

Should be good :rolleyes:


Have a crack at how the heat from the sun makes it down into the "jet pits" walls?


Now where is that surface ice?

And again, arguments from ignorance are not valid science. What is the sublimation temperature of H20 in a vacuum? What is the sublimation temperature of CO in a vacuum?
How many times do you need telling that it doesn't require surface ice?
How far through the varyingly thick dust layer will the heat penetrate in order to heat the underlying ice to a point above those temperatures? Far enough, obviously, as what we see being sublimated is H2O, CO2 and CO.
Perhaps you'd like to tell us where these sublimation products are coming from. It sure as hell isn't rock. Rock doesn't have a density of 0.47g cm^3. Nor, generally, is it 75-85% porous. Good luck blasting that off a planet and keeping it intact. Did you not read about what Deep Impact excavated from below the surface of Tempel 1? Just a reminder, it was H2O.

You can roll your scientifically illiterate eyes all you like, because I, and others, have explained why Hale-Bopp and other comets will outgas at certain temperatures. Use wikipedia. Look up the sublimation temperatures of various ices. I already explained that H-B would have been well above the sublimation temperature of CO at 25 AU. Which part of it don't you understand?

While we're at it, where is this evidence you claim to have for this comet being rock, and the processes we observe being caused by electric woo?
I think we all know the answer to that. You have the same evidence now as when Thornhill and Talbott published that idiotic poster presentation 9 years ago; the square root of zero.
 
and the MUPUS couldn't penetrate into PUMICE????


Basically everything has been a surprise for you (mainstream) and the EU are just ticking them off one by one...

ice screws...that's a good one!

All three systems failed to keep Philae on the surface but nothing else failed???

And the first CIVA images were of ROCK (strongly consolidated material) that has a lot in common with asteroids.

No, once again, strongly consolidated material refers to a layer of sintered ice/ dust mixture. i.e. it is not "free" dust. Nobody has ever seen rock on a comet. The density is not that of rock. The porosity is not that of rock. The sublimation products are not those of rock. Asteroids do not have densities of < 0.5g m^3.
All your diversionary tactics cannot hide the fact that a) you obviously don't understand science, in particular as it relates to comets, and b) cannot explain the density, the H2O nor the porosity, not to mention pretty much everything else that has been reported from this and other comets.
 
so why the
The ubiquitous presence of fractured materials on the surface of the comet is of paramount significance for a body that displays a very low bulk density of ~0.5 kg/m3
statement?

Still looks like YOUR problem!

And while we're at it, what are the boulders on 67P made out of?
 
No, once again, strongly consolidated material refers to a layer of sintered ice/ dust mixture. i.e. it is not "free" dust. Nobody has ever seen rock on a comet. The density is not that of rock. The porosity is not that of rock. The sublimation products are not those of rock. Asteroids do not have densities of < 0.5g m^3.
All your diversionary tactics cannot hide the fact that a) you obviously don't understand science, in particular as it relates to comets, and b) cannot explain the density, the H2O nor the porosity, not to mention pretty much everything else that has been reported from this and other comets.


NO once again you imply ice, sintered ice, as the strongly consolidated material but Philea is hard up against your sintered ice and well no sublimation that i've read about happening there!

in fact the only place so far is "CLIFFS ARE DRIVING THE ACTIVITY" SO IT'S ALL DUST AND SINTERED ICE then??


Seems mainstream contradict themselves quite a bit
The water ions themselves originate in the coma, the atmosphere of the comet. They are placed there originally by heat from the Sun liberating the molecules from the surface ice.
followed up by
high surface temperatures suggestive of a dry, porous, and poorly thermally conductive surface


but who cares, eh!
 
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