Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[Dancing David]

Sol's learning curve has a negative derivative ...

That is pith^3

 

[Sol88]

Except, for the zillionth time, it isn't rock. CONSERT would not have gotten the signal it did through rock. MIRO would not have seen the temperature readings it did at depth in rock. I can't find the paper I previously linked on the nature of the sound waves produced by the hammering of MUPUS, but that also didn't indicate rock.
So, there is absolutely zero evidence of rock, and everywhere they have looked at the comet with the appropriate instruments, it turns out not to be rock.
When added to the size of the crater at Tempel 1, and the measured density of this and other comets, it is incredibly obvious that comets are not rock.
Quite why you have such a problem with this, I have absolutely no idea.
Just to clarify - it isn't rock.

EDIT:
Found the abstract I was referring to:
Constraints for the subsurface structure at the Abydos site on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko resulting from CASSE listening to the MUPUS insertion phase
Knapmeyer, M. et al
https://agu.confex.com/agu/fm16/meetingapp.cgi/Paper/118788



This is not the first time I have posted that, either. How many times do we need to keep posting the same things before Sol actually addresses the science, rather than the usual 'looks like a duck' non-science of EU? (That question was almost certainly rhetorical)

Or if there are any cracks and fractures in the well consolidated material rock, as observed, this would lower the effective shear modulus and Rayleigh wave transmission! Which by the abstract is at LEAST 80 m/s but could well be more if the there where no cracks or fractures!

Close-up images of the final Philae landing site on comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko acquired by the ROLIS camera.

The ROLIS and CIVA images demonstrate that the surface is also cracked at smaller (decimeter) scales

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006LPI....37.1165M

Abstract
During the first second after Deep Impact struck Tempel 1, the flyby spacecraft observed a bright arc-shaped plume that expanded rapidly away from the impact site. This plume was probably composed of about 4000 kg of incandescent silicate melt droplets.

Do try and keep pace JD116

 

[Sol88]

JD116, since your are up to speed on the Deep Impact mission, what was the volume excavated by the impact?

 

[Sol88]

Quote:
.......the shear modulus may easily be as large as 10 MPa. This is still low compared to solid rock or monocrystalline ice, but is compatible with

the MUPUS PEN could not penertrate highly porous materials????? Why not?

 

[jonesdave116]

Abstract
During the first second after Deep Impact struck Tempel 1, the flyby spacecraft observed a bright arc-shaped plume that expanded rapidly away from the impact site. This plume was probably composed of about 4000 kg of incandescent silicate melt droplets.

Err, what do you think the dust is composed of? Does it include silicates? How much ice do you reckon there was?

A sustained production of water is observed, which can be explained by the sublimation of pure ice grains with sizes less than 1 μm and comprising a mass of ice of (0.8−1.8) × 10⁷ kg.

Investigation of dust and water ice in comet 9P/Tempel 1 from Spitzer observations of the Deep Impact event
Giquel, A. et al (2012)
http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_html/2012/06/aa18718-11/aa18718-11.html

That's about 10 000 tonnes. Of ice. That Wal says isn't there. Funny how you lot seem to cherry pick just the out of context bits that you bizarrely think supports your nonsense, whilst amazingly missing all the bits that show it to be lies wrong.

 

[jonesdave116]

the MUPUS PEN could not penertrate highly porous materials????? Why not?

What has the porosity got to do with it? It is down to its strength. Which, given that the hammer appeared not to reach its highest power, was beyond its ability to break. That would be my guess.

Thermal and mechanical properties of the near-surface layers of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Spohn, T. et al (2015)
http://elib.dlr.de/97952/1/Science-2015-Spohn-.pdf

 

[jonesdave116]

JD116, since your are up to speed on the Deep Impact mission, what was the volume excavated by the impact?

Surely even the EU crowd could do the maths involved here? OK, maybe not. It does involve π. However, given a conservative estimate of a 100m diameter crater of 10m depth, then one is looking at ~75 000m³ of material.
Now, given the estimated volume of ice excavated, and giving the ice a value of 1000 kg m³, then that crater size looks highish, but the ice is likely porous and will have a lower density than 1000 kg m³, plus you've got the dust.
So, that looks reasonable, depending on the porosity.
One thing is for sure; it wasn't a ~7m crater, as required by the idiot Thornhill for his non-existent rock.

 

[jonesdave116]

Just a reminder for the non-scientists; smashing a ~370 kg impactor into rock at ~10 km/s does NOT produce thousands of tonnes of ice. Not in the real world, anyway.

 

[Reality Check]

An almost 8 year long delusion that anything he thinks is "rock-like" has to be ROCK

Sol88 doubles down on "well consolidated" Rock-like dust being called ROCK!

27 February 2017 Sol88: An almost 8 year long delusion that anything he thinks is "rock-like" has to be actual rock !
We have seen the idiocy of claiming that images of comet nuclei made of ices and dust have to be rock. This is the idiocy that the phrase "rock-like: in a Wikipedia article about comet nuclei features made of ices and dust on 67P have to be rock.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Lies about a Wikipedia article that states the composition of 67P = ice + dust

Sol88 doubles down on "well consolidated" Rock-like...

27 February 2017 Sol88: Lies about a Wikipedia article that states the composition of 67P as ice and dust and its density (0.533 ± 0.006 g/cm³) as half that of water. That is NOT ROCK !
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko

Measurements carried out before Philae's batteries failed indicate that the dust layer could be as much as 20 cm (7.9 in) thick. Beneath that is hard ice, or a mixture of ice and dust. Porosity appears to increase toward the center of the comet.[57]

Also links to the comet article which explicitly states that comets are made of ice and dust.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Word salad based on his delusion that comets are rock.

Or if ....

27 February 2017 Sol88: Word salad based on his delusion that comets are rock.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: The repeated idiocy of citing evidence that a comet contains dust and lying

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006LPI....37.1165M

27 February 2017 Sol88: The repeated idiocy of citing evidence that a comet contains dust and then lying by omission !
The Deep Impact mission melted part of the Tempel 1 comet nucleus. So it created "silicate melt droplets" from the dust grains. The lie by omission is that Sol88 knows that the impact also blasted ices, including water, from the Tempel 1 comet nucleus.

Deep Impact: The First Second is also what makes his prophet Wal Thornhill a liar - no flash before impact !

 

[Reality Check]

Just a reminder for the non-scientists; smashing a ~370 kg impactor into rock at ~10 km/s does NOT produce thousands of tonnes of ice. Not in the real world, anyway.

Also what happens in the real world is that that the Deep Impact impactor on rock would produce a crater about 7 meters in diameter. The estimated diameter of the crater is 150 meters !

But then Sol88 so afraid of the real world that he cannot even click on a link to an impact calculator or find any by his own:
More than a year and counting of fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.

 

[Reality Check]

112 items of ignorance, delusion and lies dating from 29 August 2016 to 22 February 2017 (maybe hundreds more in the last 7 years!)

1. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The delusion that the Stardust mission collected "consolidated material" from the nucleus of a comet, e.g. 67P !
2. 23 February 2017 Sol88: An implied lie that the surface of 67P has to have the same porosity as its bulk.
3. 23 February 2017 Sol88: A lie that MUPUS was designed to penetrate amorphous ice when it was deigned to try to penetrate the ices and dust of a comet nucleus.
4. 23 February 2017 Sol88: Deludingly cites a paper stating that MUPUS did not penetrate "highly porous ice"!
5. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The usual lie of "ice" when he knows the physical evidence that comets are made of ice (no scare quotes).
6. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The idiocy of an uncited quote again!
7. 23 February 2017 Sol88: Argument from false dichotomy - a mainstream mystery is not support for his delusion that comets are rocks because that is a delusion!
8. 23 February 2017 Sol88: Two lies about 67P jets: They are jets (no scare quotes), there are papers about them.
9. 23 February 2017 Sol88: A lie that Holger Sierks embargoes data about 67P jets.
10. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The delusion that grains of dust in space must contain molecular oxygen (O_{2[/SUB[URL="http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11728206#post11728206"]]).23 February 2017 Sol88: Inane, irrelevant highlights in an uncited quote.[/URL] [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: An almost 8 year long delusion that anything he thinks is "rock-like" has to be actual rock :jaw-dropp! [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: Lies about a Wikipedia article that states the composition of 67P as ice and dust and its density (0.533 ± 0.006 g/cm3) as half that of water. That is NOT ROCK :jaw-dropp! [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: Word salad based on his delusion that comets are rock. [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: The repeated idiocy of citing evidence that a comet contains dust and then lying by omission :eye-poppi! [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: A lie about MUPUS and "highly porous materials".}

_{Almost 8 years later and all we have is his and the Thunderbolts cult delusions. The electric comet delusion debunked back in 2013 :jaw-dropp! The parroting of the Thunderbolt cult ignorance, delusions and lies in this thread alone (continuation of a thread that is now 7 years of delusions from Sol88 and Haig!). 10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc. More than a year and counting of fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.}

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: A lie about MUPUS and "highly porous materials"

the MUPUS PEN could not penertrate highly porous materials????? Why not?

Because this is you repeating a lie about "highly porous materials", Sol88 !
27 February 2017 Sol88: A lie about MUPUS and "highly porous materials".

It is the bulk of all comets that have to be highly porous because we have measured bulk bulk density to be less than that of water.
It is the bulk of 67P that was measured to be highly porous at ~70%.

There are no measurements of the porosity of the layer of ice below the layer of dust that the MUPUS instrument was hammered into.

The porosity of materials is not a measure of their compressibility.

 

[Reality Check]

Before and after: unique changes spotted on Rosetta’s comet

21 March 2017
Growing fractures, collapsing cliffs, rolling boulders and moving material burying some features on the comet’s surface while exhuming others are among the remarkable changes documented during Rosetta’s mission.

A study published in Science today summarises the types of surface changes observed during Rosetta’s two years at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. Notable differences are seen before and after the comet’s most active period – perihelion – as it reached its closest point to the Sun along its orbit.

“Monitoring the comet continuously as it traversed the inner Solar System gave us an unprecedented insight not only into how comets change when they travel close to the Sun, but also how fast these changes take place,” says Ramy El-Maarry, study leader

The changes, which were either unique transient phenomena or taking place over longer periods, are linked to different geological processes: in situ weathering and erosion, sublimation of water-ice, and mechanical stresses arising from the comet’s spin.

I suspect we will get electric comet delusions posted because of those "rolling boulders" made of ices and dust rolling downhill due to erosion or being pushed by outgassing.

 

[Reality Check]

Rosetta keeps on giving great science: Collapsing cliff reveals comet’s interior

21 March 2017
Rosetta scientists have made the first compelling link between an outburst of dust and gas and the collapse of a prominent cliff, which also exposed the pristine, icy interior of the comet.

Sudden and short-lived outbursts were observed frequently during Rosetta’s two-year mission at Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. Although their exact trigger has been much debated, the outbursts seem to point back to the collapse of weak, eroded surfaces, with the sudden exposure and heating of volatile material likely playing a role.

In a study published today in Nature Astronomy, scientists make the first definitive link between an outburst and a crumbling cliff face, which is helping us to understand the driving forces behind such events.

 

[Dancing David]

But my crockpot uses electricity therefore electric comets!

 

[Sol88]

My moon Titan is electric too same as your crockpot!!!!

Seems everything is electrical in nature!!!

Whodathunkit

Electrified sand could explain Titan’s odd backward-facing dunes

Packing peanuts

When they opened the chamber, static electricity from the grains jostling in the dry air had clumped them together. “It was like when you open a box on a winter morning and the packing peanuts stick everywhere,” says Dufek. “These hydrocarbons on Titan are low density and they stick to everything, just like packing peanuts do.”

Grains on Titan can maintain that charge and stick together for much longer than particles on Earth could, because of their low density and the dryness of Titan’s atmosphere.

Now something about "Sand Dunes" on 67P...Rosetta spied shifting dunes on Comet 67P – so how did they form?

But no one expected dunes.

Dunes are formed by wind but the gases jetting from comets are so tenuous, nobody thought they’d be strong enough to move surface particles around – let alone pile them into dunes.

Seems mainstream are stumped yet again

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: The delusion that Titan is a comet

My moon Titan is electric too same as your crockpot!!!!

31 March 2017 Sol88: The delusion that Titan is a comet !
31 March 2017 Sol88: A lie about "mainstream are stumped yet again" when the mainstream explains the dunes on 67P (winds from sublimated gases).

112 items of ignorance, delusion and lies dating from 29 August 2016 to 22 February 2017 (maybe hundreds more in the last 7 years!)

1. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The delusion that the Stardust mission collected "consolidated material" from the nucleus of a comet, e.g. 67P !
2. 23 February 2017 Sol88: An implied lie that the surface of 67P has to have the same porosity as its bulk.
3. 23 February 2017 Sol88: A lie that MUPUS was designed to penetrate amorphous ice when it was deigned to try to penetrate the ices and dust of a comet nucleus.
4. 23 February 2017 Sol88: Deludingly cites a paper stating that MUPUS did not penetrate "highly porous ice"!
5. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The usual lie of "ice" when he knows the physical evidence that comets are made of ice (no scare quotes).
6. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The idiocy of an uncited quote again!
7. 23 February 2017 Sol88: Argument from false dichotomy - a mainstream mystery is not support for his delusion that comets are rocks because that is a delusion!
8. 23 February 2017 Sol88: Two lies about 67P jets: They are jets (no scare quotes), there are papers about them.
9. 23 February 2017 Sol88: A lie that Holger Sierks embargoes data about 67P jets.
10. 23 February 2017 Sol88: The delusion that grains of dust in space must contain molecular oxygen (O_{2[/SUB[URL="http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11728206#post11728206"]]).23 February 2017 Sol88: Inane, irrelevant highlights in an uncited quote.[/URL] [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: An almost 8 year long delusion that anything he thinks is "rock-like" has to be actual rock :jaw-dropp! [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: Lies about a Wikipedia article that states the composition of 67P as ice and dust and its density (0.533 ± 0.006 g/cm3) as half that of water. That is NOT ROCK :jaw-dropp! [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: Word salad based on his delusion that comets are rock. [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: The repeated idiocy of citing evidence that a comet contains dust and then lying by omission :eye-poppi! [*]27 February 2017 Sol88: A lie about MUPUS and "highly porous materials".}

_{Almost 8 years later and all we have is his and the Thunderbolts cult delusions. The electric comet delusion debunked back in 2013 :jaw-dropp! The parroting of the Thunderbolt cult ignorance, delusions and lies in this thread alone (continuation of a thread that is now 7 years of delusions from Sol88 and Haig!). 10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc. More than a year and counting of fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.}