Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[jonesdave116]

Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

Which, for the millionth time, is irrelevant to the debunked electric comet woo. The first suggestion of this mechanism long predates Thornhill & Talbott's book sales website. What you need are discharges and rock. And they are in short supply. In fact, extremely predictably, they were completely absent.
It's not our fault that you lumped your money on a horse donkey that had already been put down before the tape went up.

 

[Sol88]

Precisely. And the paper that first announced the detection of the ejection of icy grains was in March 2006:

Detection of water ice grains after the DEEP IMPACT onto Comet 9P/Tempel 1
Schulz, R. et al
http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/ps/2006/12/aahi281.ps.gz

For someone who, at the time, was claimed to have studied comets for 30 years, this seems like a strange oversight. Maybe he didn't think it was important. More likely, he knew damn well that it blew his nonsense out of the water, and didn't want to bring it to the attention of his book buying public.

Detection of water ice grains after the DEEP IMPACT onto Comet 9P/Tempel 1

The UVW1 filter covers the OH (0-0) emission band of the ( $A^{2}\Sigma^{+}-X^{2}\Pi$) system centered at 308.6 nm. As OH is a direct dissociation product of water, it is most frequently used to determine the water production rate in comets.

From the fact that after impact the light curves of OH and broadband B peak at >1.2 h after the UV continuum light curve we conclude that the small particles seen in the UV were icy grains that disintegrated, at least in part, by evaporating water (and probably also other gaseous species). It has been known for a long time that water is the most abundant volatile species in a comet and accounts for about $90 \%$ of its gas production rate. It is also well known that inside a heliocentric distance of 3 AU, water is the main driver of activity of a comet nucleus. Whether icy grains do or do not exist in the coma of a comet close to the Sun has therefore been of major importance for understanding the physical and chemical processes in the near-nucleus region of an active comet. However, as the lifetime of micron and sub-micron size icy grains is very short at heliocentric distances smaller than 2 AU, they have not been detectable by remote-sensing observations of a cometary coma, which is at steady-state conditions.

The observations of the D EEP I MPACT induced outburst of comet 9P/Tempel 1 provided the unique opportunity to characterize the properties of fresh cometray material coming off the comet nucleus under non-steady state conditions. Hughes (2005) demonstrated that the mass loss during and immediately after the impact was probably not in form of gentle water sublimation, which is consistent with the discovery reported here. Rapidly disintegrating small icy grains were detected shortly after the impact.

It's been KNOWN!!!!! Ha ha ha whoo boy

I see no death knell for the EU in any of the paper, just more support for the ELECTRIC COMET!

 

[Sol88]

Which, for the millionth time, is irrelevant to the debunked electric comet woo. The first suggestion of this mechanism long predates Thornhill & Talbott's book sales website. What you need are discharges and rock. And they are in short supply. In fact, extremely predictably, they were completely absent.
It's not our fault that you lumped your money on a horse donkey that had already been put down before the tape went up.

Jonesdave116, sublimation NOT required!

 

[Sol88]

Because your telling me the meagre amount of "ice's" sublimating from "somewhere, some distance" below the very well theramaly insulated dusty, tholin rich, well consolidated surface has the power to stop the solar wind from reaching the surface and NOT a double layer?

btw does have the power to STOP the solar wind.... if you were learned enough in PLASMA physics to understand AND we have the ingredients to have, not just one but MANY double layers! As described by Tusenfem and he's "nested draping"!

and HE (Tusenfem) KNOWS this but that would be admitting the EU has legs!

 

[Sol88]

Which, for the millionth time, is irrelevant to the debunked electric comet woo. The first suggestion of this mechanism long predates Thornhill & Talbott's book sales website. What you need are discharges and rock. And they are in short supply. In fact, extremely predictably, they were completely absent.
It's not our fault that you lumped your money on a horse donkey that had already been put down before the tape went up.

So how are the "Jets" formed, powered and sustained!

Collapsing cliffs...

It is concluded that the dust particles are strongly charged and partially coupled to cometary plasmas (or vice versa).

 

[Sol88]

Rapidly disintegrating small icy grains were detected shortly after the impact. The maximum abundance of these small grains was observed as early as 1.5 h after the impact, while larger particles reflecting in the visible spectral range reached their maximum only 1.5 h later. This proves the long standing assumption that the water in comets does not exclusively sublimate directly from the comet nucleus, but is also ejected in form of small icy grains at least during outbursts.

Any ice grains detected with the COSIMA and GIADA instruments, JD116?

Any correlation between the STARDUST mission and the data returned from GIADA?

 

[jonesdave116]

Detection of water ice grains after the DEEP IMPACT onto Comet 9P/Tempel 1









It's been KNOWN!!!!! Ha ha ha whoo boy

I see no death knell for the EU in any of the paper, just more support for the ELECTRIC COMET!

Then you are extremely deluded! Particularly when said detections were independently confirmed in IR by the Deep Impact spacecraft, eh? And then further confirmed by shed loads of ice around Hartley 2, hmm? Want me to post the picture again?
You need to realise that this nonsense was a non-starter from the get go. If you understood just a tiny bit of what you have been told about Thornhill's scientific illiteracy, and shoddy research skills, you would have seen this a long time ago. Want me to do the maths to show how many orders of magnitude short he would be with his solar wind created OH? That cannot form in the first place at 1 keV? That cannot be mistaken for H₂O? When the solar wind isn't even reaching the comet for yonks? That really should have given you a clue.

 

[jonesdave116]

So how are the "Jets" formed, powered and sustained!

Collapsing cliffs...

What the frak are you on about now? What do you think the jets are formed of? Why don't you ever listen!!!!! How many damn times do you have to be pointed at the papers, before it sinks in to what counts for your brain, that they are spectroscopically resolved to H₂O, CO₂ and many other gases besides?
How many damn times do I have to tell you that they are sustained by the ice that is detected? How many posts ago did I provide you with a list of damn papers showing that? READ THEM, and stop posting utter rubbish. Just for a change, yes?
This has been gone over umpteen dozen times, and you simply refuse to let it sink in.
I am getting sick to death of having to post the same links, time after time after time, which you completely ignore, and then come back with the same inane questions that have already been damn well answered. Will you ever learn?
No, would be my guess.
Now give it up. Your silly woo is dead. Has been for ages.

 

[jonesdave116]

Any ice grains detected with the COSIMA and GIADA instruments, JD116?

What, like these ones, you mean?

 

[Sol88]

electric discharges!

credit ESA/Rosetta/MPS for OSIRIS Team MPS/UPD/LAM/IAA/SSO/INTA/UPM/DASP/IDA

The bright patches are thought to be exposures of water-ice.

Because YOU have nothing else in your tool kit!!

PURE speculation on your part JD116!

 

[jonesdave116]

Because your telling me the meagre amount of "ice's" sublimating from "somewhere, some distance" below the very well theramaly insulated dusty, tholin rich, well consolidated surface has the power to stop the solar wind from reaching the surface and NOT a double layer?

btw does have the power to STOP the solar wind.... if you were learned enough in PLASMA physics to understand AND we have the ingredients to have, not just one but MANY double layers! As described by Tusenfem and he's "nested draping"!

and HE (Tusenfem) KNOWS this but that would be admitting the EU has legs!

Right, so you are accusing a professional scientist, with access to data you neither have, nor would understand, of lying, yes?
Can you confirm that, because that just might turn out to be your last post on here. Yes or no?

 

[Sol88]

What the frak are you on about now? What do you think the jets are formed of? Why don't you ever listen!!!!! How many damn times do you have to be pointed at the papers, before it sinks in to what counts for your brain, that they are spectroscopically resolved to H₂O, CO₂ and many other gases besides?
How many damn times do I have to tell you that they are sustained by the ice that is detected? How many posts ago did I provide you with a list of damn papers showing that? READ THEM, and stop posting utter rubbish. Just for a change, yes?
This has been gone over umpteen dozen times, and you simply refuse to let it sink in.
I am getting sick to death of having to post the same links, time after time after time, which you completely ignore, and then come back with the same inane questions that have already been damn well answered. Will you ever learn?
No, would be my guess.
Now give it up. Your silly woo is dead. Has been for ages.

YOU infer the ice! but it's still OH...

As OH is a direct dissociation product of water, it is most frequently used to determine the water production rate in comets.

from your favourite paper!

 

[jonesdave116]

electric discharges!

[qimg]http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2015/06/icy_clusters_and_individual_boulders/15473907-1-eng-GB/Icy_clusters_and_individual_boulders_node_full_image_2.jpg[/qimg] credit ESA/Rosetta/MPS for OSIRIS Team MPS/UPD/LAM/IAA/SSO/INTA/UPM/DASP/IDA

<snip> They are from a paper where those bright spots were spectroscopically resolved as being H₂O! <snip>

Edited by jsfisher: 

Edited for compliance with rule 12 of the Membership Agreement.

 

[jonesdave116]

YOU infer the ice! but it's still OH

NO IT ISN'T. Don't you ever listen? Tell me at what wavelength you would detect OH in in IR? Then tell me what wavelength they were detected at. OH is a molecule with a single bond (obviously). It is impossible to confuse it with H₂O. You only believe this rubbish because, like the idiot Thornhill, you simply don't understand what you're talking about. Read the DI paper.

 

[Sol88]

I am sorry PLASMA physics is too advance for your simple sublimation model!

You should have been smarted when

Stardust: A Mission With Many Scientific Surprises

but ad hoc sweep under the carpet, nothing to see here move along folks fanatsies were made up to SAVE the model!

Shame on you, shame on you...

 

[Sol88]

<snip> They are from a paper where those bright spots were spectroscopically resolved as being H₂O! <snip>

Edited by jsfisher: 

Moderated content redacted.

YAWN...

“Water ice is the most plausible explanation for the occurrence and properties of these features,” says Antoine Pommerol of the University of Bern and lead author of the study.

from the PR!

 

[Sol88]

Any ice grains detected with the COSIMA and GIADA instruments, JD116?

Any correlation between the STARDUST mission and the data returned from GIADA?

Jonesdave116?

 

[jonesdave116]

Give up, you're obviously drunk.

 

[Sol88]

It was very exciting to find that pieces of CAIs and chondrules in the comet and the scientific implications of this are profound. When we first presented the discovery of comet CAIs at the annual Lunar and Planetary Science conference, just three months after Stardust landed, you could see jaws drop in the room crowded with 600 scientists. It was just phenomenal to discover something this profound, right in the beginning of the analysis program. The discovery of chondrules and CAIs proves that matter abundantly formed in the inner solar system was somehow transported to the edge of the young solar system where comets formed.

giggle snort!!!!

 

[jonesdave116]

giggle snort!!!!

And what has that got to do with your woo? How much H₂O was Wild 2 outgassing?

And, just for the record:

Detection of exposed H2O ice on the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko Again.
Barucci, M. A. et al.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1609.00551.pdf

"In this paper we report on the analysis of the eight bright spots for which we obtained a positive detection of H2O ice in VIRTIS data."

So no, they were not electric woo. Only an idiot would believe such a thing.