Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[tusenfem]

For those interested in a preprint of my (accepted) "currents in cometary comae" review paper, send me a PM and I can give a link (too big for email)

 

[Sol88]

duh

Oh, so they also carry a current! righto one would reasonably ask, what is generating the current? in relation to the magnetic flux ropes postulated for 67P.

Magnetic reconnection?

 

[jonesdave116]

Oh, so they also carry a current! righto one would reasonably ask, what is generating the current? in relation to the magnetic flux ropes postulated for 67P.

Magnetic reconnection?

Look up the word 'induced'.

 

[jonesdave116]

Oh, so they also carry a current! righto one would reasonably ask, what is generating the current? in relation to the magnetic flux ropes postulated for 67P.

Magnetic reconnection?

One may start here, for instance:

Three-dimensional multiscale MHD model of cometary plasma environments
Gombosi, T. I. et al (1996)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/96JA01075/abstract

(4) The model predicts four distinct current systems in the inner coma: the density peak current, the cavity boundary current, the inner shock current, and finally the cross-tail current. (5) The calculated plasma parameters (magnetic field, plasma density, speed, and temperature) are in very good agreement with published Giotto observations.

Lots of currents going on there. And in agreement with prior observation. Nobody daft enough, however, to suggest that it has anything to do with Thornhill's woo.

 

[jonesdave116]

^^^^
Or, if one wanted evidence of induced currents from the Rosetta mission, try here:

Low-frequency waves at comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Koenders, C. et al. (2016)
http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/abs/2016/10/aa28803-16/aa28803-16.html

Currents there, as well. Currents everywhere. All induced.

http://www.chelmerfoods.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/currants.jpg

(Not sure that these are the currents you are looking for)

 

[jonesdave116]

Currents in flux ropes?

Cluster electric current density measurements within a magnetic flux rope in the plasma sheet
Slavin, J. A. et al (2003)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2002GL016411/full

And so it goes on. All, apparently, news to the EU electric geniuses.

 

[tusenfem]

Oh, so they also carry a current! righto one would reasonably ask, what is generating the current? in relation to the magnetic flux ropes postulated for 67P.

Magnetic reconnection?

In MHD the currents are generated by the magnetic field through Ampère's law:

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex? \nabla \times {\bf H} = \frac{\partial D}{dt} + {\bf J}

seems that LaTeX is not working anymore

 

[Sol88]

In MHD the currents are generated by the magnetic field through Ampère's law:

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex? \nabla \times {\bf H} = \frac{\partial D}{dt} + {\bf J}

seems that LaTeX is not working anymore

Ampère's circuital law yeah? cool, I've heard of that

Ampère's circuital law relates the integrated magnetic field around a closed loop to the electric current passing through the loop.

A circuit, like a proper electrical circuit? what powers this current carrying field aligned flux rope?

And could this power, even small current carrying double layers?

Geez, that CME was a doozy, ay!

 

[Sol88]

Look up the word 'induced'.

Induced? labour? Coma? or electromagnetic induction?

Electromagnetic or Magnetic induction is the production of an electromotive force (i.e., voltage) across an electrical conductor due to its dynamic interaction with a magnetic field.

So what's the conductor? I assume because the nucleus is magnetic field free and even has a diamagnetic cavity around it, that the magnetic field is from the Solar magnetic field?

 

[tusenfem]

Ampère's circuital law yeah? cool, I've heard of that

A circuit, like a proper electrical circuit? what powers this current carrying field aligned flux rope?

And could this power, even small current carrying double layers?

Geez, that CME was a doozy, ay!

No, that is not Ampere's circuit law, this is just the differential Maxwell equation.

The current is a necessity because of the wound-up magnetic field (curl H)

This has nothing to do with double layers.

 

[jonesdave116]

Induced? labour? Coma? or electromagnetic induction?


So what's the conductor? I assume because the nucleus is magnetic field free and even has a diamagnetic cavity around it, that the magnetic field is from the Solar magnetic field?

This paper describes what happens re the diamagnetic cavity and electric currents (which is also referenced in Tusenfem's paper):

Fine structure of the diamagnetic cavity boundary in comet Halley
Israelevich, P. L. et al
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2002JA009622/full

 

[Reality Check]

righto one would reasonably ask, what is generating the current? in relation to the magnetic flux ropes postulated for 67P.

Magnetic reconnection?

One may reasonably want to learn what magnetic reconnection is.
Or some high school science. A changing magnetic field exerts forces on charges. That creates electric current.

 

[Sol88]

Yes, it does. Let's see how the results from Rosetta apply to my calculation:

1)It shows my calculation to be irrelevant, as we know that the solar wind wasn't reaching the comet nucleus for a long period of time - but we already knew that was going to happen from the Giotto mission in '86. So, I basically wasted my time.

Just out of curiosity JD116, what was reaching the surface during this time?

 

[Sol88]

No, that is not Ampere's circuit law, this is just the differential Maxwell equation.

The current is a necessity because of the wound-up magnetic field (curl H)

This has nothing to do with double layers.

Didn't say it was!

Fine structure of the diamagnetic cavity boundary in comet Halley

In your expert opinion, could a diamagnetic cavity boundary layer (DCBL) also be called a double layer?

4. Conclusion

[21] The spatial distribution of the electric current density in the DCBL was calculated by using magnetometer data obtained during Giotto - comet Halley encounter. The DCBL was assumed to be planar (as the boundary thickness is very small as compared to the curvature radius), and the minimum variance method was used in order to find the normal to the boundary. This method allowed us to restore the fine structure of the electric current in the DCBL. The restored electric current was found to possess both the perpendicular (to the local magnetic field) component and the parallel component. The perpendicular current is responsible for the cavity shielding from the magnetic field penetration. This current is supported by the electric field tangential to the DCBL.

[22] The parallel component of the electric current has opposite directions on the inner and outer sides of the DCBL. We determined the positions of the inbound and outbound DCBL crossings in the coordinate system rotating with the IMF by using the information on the magnetic field components signs. This method allowed us to follow the closure of the parallel current and to draw the electric current circuit in the DCBL. It appeared to be similar to the current system associated with the Alfvén wings which arise due to the interaction of the magnetized plasma flow with a conducting obstacle. However, in case of a comet, the electric currents (generated by the Lorentz electric field) flow in the thin DCBL rather than through the whole volume of the obstacle (as in case of Io).

[23] In order to support such a current system, the potential drop of ∼0.5 V across the DCBL happens to be sufficient. Such a small value is compatible with the penetration depth of cometary ions from the cavity to the magnetic barrier. This depth equals the ion gyroradius. Consequently, one may conclude that the charge separation (which may arise due to different penetration depths of ions and electrons) is effectively reduced by means of the magnetic field diffusion into the electron component of the plasma.

A double layer is a structure in a plasma consisting of two parallel layers of opposite electrical charge.

Ions and electrons within the double layer are accelerated, decelerated, or deflected by the electric field, depending on their direction of motion.

Electrostatic double layers are especially common in current-carrying plasmas, and are very thin (typically ten Debye lengths), compared to the sizes of the plasmas that contain them. Other names for a double layer are electrostatic double layer, electric double layer, plasma double layers. The term ‘electrostatic shock’ in the magnetosphere has been applied to electric fields oriented at an oblique angle to the magnetic field in such a way that the perpendicular electric field is much stronger than the parallel electric field,[3][4] In laser physics, a double layer is sometimes called an ambipolar electric field.[5]

Seems they also be called BOUNDARY LAYERS!!

 

[Sol88]

@ Tusenfem

In Fig. 9BB
an example of such a structure is shown in minimum variance coordinates [Sonnerup and
Scheible, 1998], which has the classical characteristics of a flux rope, which means that there
is a strong current flowing along the centre of the tube. Using the model by Vrsnak et al.
[2015], the axial current can be estimated by:

SNIP...maths blah blah blah.....

10⁵A;

Is 100,000 Amperes a lot?

How many volts? Ohm's law is something even this math challenged individual might be able to achieve!

 

[Sol88]

Any way back to sublimating dirtysnowballs that are the pristine left overs from the formation of the Solar system!

That's were the real break thru science is at!

Not this electric nonsense, correct Jonedave116

"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

 

[Sol88]

Oh and just on side note, your paper Tusenfem, is very typical for a "Netherlander" trying to write in English.

Made me laugh but the meat of the paper is excellent, from an ELECTRIC COMET PERSPECTIVE.

Might not mean much from this idiot but sincerely, well done mate!

 

[Sol88]

Ionospheric plasma of comet 67P probed by Rosetta at 3 au from the Sun

Suprathermal electron environment of comet 67P/Churyumov

Observation of charged nanograins at comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko not pay walled yet!

Abstract Soon after the Rosetta Orbiter rendezvoused with comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko at a solar distance of ~3.5 AU and began to fly in triangular-shaped trajectories around it, the Ion and Electron Sensor detected negative particles at energies from about 100 eV/q to over 18 keV/q. The lower energy particles came from roughly the direction of the comet; the higher-energy particles came from approximately the solar direction. These particles are interpreted as clusters of molecules, most likely water, which we refer to as nanograins because their inferred diameters are less than 100 nm. Acceleration of the grains away from the comet is through gas drag by the expanding cometary atmosphere, while acceleration back to the vicinity of the comet is caused partly by solar radiation pressure but mainly by the solar wind electric field. These observations represent the first measurements of energetic charged submicron-sized dust or ice grains (nanograins) in a cometary environment

it's almost like the Comet itself was negatively charged in relation to the solar wind plasma!

Lucky it's not but 'cos we KNOW it a sublimating dirtyiceball! Amazing stuff this sublimating "ices" almost like it's majik!

 

[Sol88]

No, that is not Ampere's circuit law, this is just the differential Maxwell equation.

The current is a necessity because of the wound-up magnetic field (curl H)

This has nothing to do with double layers.

Why do they not just get neutralized?

 

[tusenfem]

@ Tusenfem




10⁵A;

Is 100,000 Amperes a lot?

How many volts? Ohm's law is something even this math challenged individual might be able to achieve!

No, that is not a lot, it is a total current, not a curent density.
Ohm's law for circuits will not help you much, you would need to use the plasma physics generalized Ohm's law. But then again this is NOT a voltage driven current, this is a current generated by curl B.