Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[MichaelB]

So it didn't even become an issue for the defense until late in the first trial before the verdict.

And then testing was requested for the appeal, and Hellman refused.

Got it. Thanks.


--

Yet Steffi (obviously due to simple oversight) never noticed it let alone told the defense about it and got to testify before Vinci discovered it even though she's heard on the audio wanting presumed seminal fluid to be part of urgent testing November 3.

OK.

 

[kwill]

Whatever the timing of the defense request to have it tested, they did request it. More than once.

You would think that a prosecutor convinced of RS's guilt would have done that test without being asked, and you'd also think that the same prosecutor would have jumped at the chance to do it at any time.

What's the explanation for them not doing it? It makes no sense to draw inferences from the defence's failure to request and ignore the prosecution's failure to get it done.

 

[Strozzi]

RWVBWL, thank you again for digging up evidence and linking it here. Your ability to find and document evidence and transcripts in this case is very appreciated.

As I have said before, I think your surfer/photographer personna is just an illusion. I think you are really a bifocal-wearing research librarian in a basement cubicle with a high-speed internet connection and an Italian-English dictionary. And the pretty beach babe alongside you in your earlier avatar is really your sister or cousin who you had to pay to have her picture taken with you.

 

[Bill Williams]

Whatever the timing of the defense request to have it tested, they did request it. More than once.

You would think that a prosecutor convinced of RS's guilt would have done that test without being asked, and you'd also think that the same prosecutor would have jumped at the chance to do it at any time.

What's the explanation for them not doing it? It makes no sense to draw inferences from the defence's failure to request and ignore the prosecution's failure to get it done.

Why would the defense want it tested?

Theoretically, it is the prosecution which has to prove things. If the defense heard that the prosecution and/or judge did not want the stain tested, the defense would have thought that it had died and gone to heaven!!! They would have written on a bright yellow legal pad: "note to self - prosecution virtually admits the presumed semen stain does not belong to my client! You don't get these kinds of things in a courtroom every day."

It is in this strange world of Perugian courts where the burden of proof is reversed. Suddenly it's supposed to mean something that the *defense* didn't ask for it to be tested..... except, wait a minute, they did and it was denied.

For both Massei and Hellmann there are perhaps procedural reasons fr denying this.... maybe the defense requested that it be tested knowing that Hellmann would be hamstrung to deny the request; but at least the request is now on the record.

Yet it remains the $1M question.... why did not the police or Mignini test it when there was no court to interfere? C'mon Vibio, don't you at least raise an eyebrow over that!?!?!

 

[RWVBWL]

What about the thin (connecting-the-stains) line? Vasoline or Semen?

Yet Steffi
(obviously due to simple oversight)
never noticed it let alone told the defense about it and got to testify before Vinci discovered it even though she's heard on the audio wanting presumed seminal fluid to be part of urgent testing November 3.

OK.

Hi MikeyB,
You do know that Barbie Nadeau,
Author of Florence Eat!
published in 2008,
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/florence-eat-barbie-nadeau/1113609580?ean=9780762749195
soon turned her attention to this horrible murder case we discuss, right?

Thank goodness,
for Nadeau, an Italian speaking food author,
soon befriended the Perugian Prosecution Team
and by purchasing her book Angel Face,
I am able to learn more about this case, because Italian speaking Barbie Nadeau
watched roughly 10 hours of raw Crime Scene Video. Gnarly...

On page 48 of Angel Face,
Barbie Nadeau writes this:
On a pillow that had been shoved under Meredith's hips,
police found a bloody shoeprint and 2 spots that might have been dried semen.
Testing for 1 would compromise the other, Stefanoni believed,
<snip>

I am currently a surf photographer,
doing so buys me gas, food, some drink, +I dig doin' it!
I luv photographs, for they are worth a thousand, or more,
words!!!

Have a look at the photographs below, JREFers,
there is NO BLOOD nearby the presumed seminal stain,
err semen stains that Barbie Nadeau mentions and Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni herself
mentions of in the Crime Scene Video I've linked in 1 of my posts above!:

JREFers!
How would testing the semen stain,
1 day after Miss Kercher was found horribly raped and murdered,
inhibit testing the bloody shoe imprints, found to be from Rudy Guede,
which are farther away from the semen stains?

Gosh,
many pro-guilt members here on The JREF and elsewhere believe the stains above
might be from vaseline.

But looking closely at the 2nd photo,
I gotta admit that I never knew that vaseline
could leave a thin straight-line trail from 1 vasoline stain to another vasoline stain.
Whadoya think?

Or is that a semen stain, pictured above,
found lying underneath a dead, naked womans body that Dr. Stefanoni wanted tested
the day after Meredith Kercher was found raped and murdered???

 

[Diocletus]

Were are the tests results Alessa?
which your boss, Dr. Stefanoni wanted tested on 3 Nov. 2007,
1 day after Miss Kercher was found murdered.

Is there a cover-up being done somehow?

They did do semen tests on November 5-6. Those tests ruled out that Raffaelle or Lumumba were the rapist, and instead, proved that someone else had committed the sexual assault. What happened to these tests? Well, they were hidden from Judge Matteini on November 8, so that the prosecution could secure the pre-trial incarceration of all of Sollecito, Lumumba and Knox, and then they were eventually used in the case against Guede (who, surprise, surprise, turned out to be the donor of the incriminating DNA).

This suppression of material and exculpatory evidence by the prosecution was unethical and a violation of the defendants rights under the ECHR concerning pretrial detention. It's exactly what happened in the Duke Lax case.

 

[Diocletus]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=8942[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=8944[/qimg]

Was this pillow from Vegas?

 

[Strozzi]

The Vinci report (linked above) clearly states that "non è possibile allo stato la datazione delle tracce" The it is not possible to date when the stains were left.
Considering that fact, as well as the possible scenarios for any DNA found (they all sound pretty inconsequential)...plus the fact that both Hellman and Nencini turned down requests to have the stains tested....well, sorry but it all sounds like a mountain-out-of-whatever.

Vibio, Vinci is referring to the fact that there is nothing in the stain (semen) chemical itself that time-stamps (dates) it. But the fact that Rudy's shoe left its distinctive tread pattern in the semen while it was still wet/fresh connects it to Rudy. And we know that Rudy was only in the flat for a short while around 9 pm the evening of the murder, Nov 1, 2007. The tread mark in the semen and Rudy's 9 pm Nov 1 presence does date it!

This is another example of the law of physics applying, even if the law of Italy does not.

 

[Strozzi]

They did do semen tests on November 5-6. Those tests ruled out that Raffaelle or Lumumba were the rapist, and instead, proved that someone else had committed the sexual assault. What happened to these tests? Well, they were hidden from Judge Matteini on November 8, so that the prosecution could secure the pre-trial incarceration of all of Sollecito, Lumumba and Knox, and then they were eventually used in the case against Guede (who, surprise, surprise, turned out to be the donor of the incriminating DNA).

This suppression of material and exculpatory evidence by the prosecution was unethical and a violation of the defendants rights under the ECHR concerning pretrial detention. It's exactly what happened in the Duke Lax case.

Oh I wish the ECHR will address and rule in this specific act! I hope the ECHR identifies Mignini and Comodi by name.

 

[Strozzi]

Hi MikeyB,
You do know that Barbie Nadeau,
Author of Florence Eat!
published in 2008,
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/florence-eat-barbie-nadeau/1113609580?ean=9780762749195
soon turned her attention to this horrible murder case we discuss, right?

Thank goodness,
for Nadeau, an Italian speaking writer, befriended the Perugian Prosecution Team
and by purchasing her book Angel Face, I am able to learn more about this case.
Because Barbie Nadeau watched roughly 10 hours of raw Crime Scene Video.

On page 48 of Angel Face,
Barbie Nadeau writes this:
On a pillow that had been shoved under Meredith's hips,
police found a bloody shoeprint and 2 spots that might have been dried semen.
Testing for 1 would compromise the other, Stefanoni believed, <snip>

I luv photographs,
for they are worth a thousand, or more words!!!

Have a look at the photographs below, JREFers,
there is NO BLOOD nearby the presumed seminal stain,
err semen stains that Barbie Nadeau mentions and Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni herself
mentions of in the Crime Scene Video I've linked in 1 of my posts above!:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=8942[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=8944[/qimg]

JREFers!
How would testing the semen stain,
1 day after Miss Kercher was found horribly raped and murdered,
inhibit testing the bloody shoe imprints, found to be from Rudy Guede,
which are farther away from the semen stains?

Contrary to Stefanoni's statement, testing the substance would not impair the stain's usefullness in determining the shoeprint. (Besides, if it did the prosecution could always pay Stefanoni's supervisor Biondi another Euro 5,000 expert witness fee to claim the shoe print matches whatever shoe they want it to match. . )

A forensic scientist wearing gloves would probably rub a sterile cotton moistened in a sterile liquid across a center spot and absorbe DNA for testing, leaving the perimeter and shoe profile untouched. Stefanoni knows this. She is trying to provide a scientific-sounding excuse for not processing/providing exculpatory evidence.

For all we know, Stefanoni may have been ordered by Mignini or one of her supervisors NOT to test it. Or she may have tested it and learned that it is Guede's mark, which needs to be concealed in order to support the false story about who did what that evening.

 

[Vibio]

But the fact that Rudy's shoe left its distinctive tread pattern in the semen while it was still wet/fresh connects it to Rudy.

Would you please provide a link to this claim? Thanks.

 

[Desert Fox]

Would you please provide a link to this claim? Thanks.

Just curious, assuming it is Guede's DNA, would it even matter?

 

[RWVBWL]

New, Wet, Shoe Imprint Stains

But the fact that Rudy's shoe left its distinctive tread pattern in the semen while it was still wet/fresh connects it to Rudy.

Would you please provide a link to this claim? Thanks.

Hi Vibio,
As I am not at the beach today, but am sitting in front of my open laptop,
please allow me to fulfill your request, for below here is Rudy Gude's shoe-ring imprint
of a wet probable semen stain he left on the pillow case underneath Meredith's raped and murdered body.

which was found to the left of Miss Kercher,
near where here upraised dying hand clutched 1 of 2 possible blonde hairs:

You do know that Rudy Guede had never been inside the girlz flat,
much less Miss Kercher's bedroom ever before, right?


Testing the probable semen stains,
connected by a thin line sliver of seminal fluid, or is that vaseline,
on the edge of the pillow case would not, in my humble opinion,have ever inhibited testing any of the bloody shoe-imprint rings that Rudy Guede left on the pillow case. Of course, bein' Italian your thoughts may differ...

 

[Vibio]

Wow...I didn't know Frank Sfarzo has his own line of designer sheets. Nice logo.

 

[RWVBWL]

Wow...I didn't know Frank Sfarzo has his own line of designer sheets. Nice logo.

Come on Vibio!
Just admit it, you know the semen stain testing and many other incidents in this brutal case we discuss have sooooo many problems with their collection, testing and interpretation.

Do Miss Meredith Kercher some justice and simply admit it so!

Why do you defend shoddy workman, or workwomanship?

If Dr. Stefanoni worked at my old surfshop,
I'da FIRED her a long time ago for S^^^^^ work...

 

[LondonJohn]

Wow...I didn't know Frank Sfarzo has his own line of designer sheets. Nice logo.

Excellent comeback! Really on-point and incisive!

Now, do you have anything of...ya know..... substance to add to the debate about the stain on the sheet?

For example, do you think that the crimescope photograph would appear to suggest that Guede could have trodden in wet semen and then trodden on another part of the pillow case, thus depositing a partial shoeprint made in semen upon the pillowcase? And if that's the case, do you think that this in itself point to a) the subtance (potentially semen) being wet at the point when Guede was stepping onto the pillow case, and b) Guede potentially being the "owner" of this substance, if it is indeed semen.

Gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have it tested?

Oh no wait, we couldn't do that (says Stefanoni and her bunch of goons), because if we did it might (somehow!) destroy the print evidence. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Diocletus]

Come on Vibio!
Just admit it, you know the semen stain testing and many other incidents in this brutal case we discuss have sooooo many problems with their collection, testing and interpretation.

Do Miss Meredith Kercher some justice and simply admit it so!

Why do you defend shoddy workman, or workwomanship?

If Dr. Stefanoni worked at my old surfshop,
I'da FIRED her a long time ago for S^^^^^ work...

In Italy, it's not useful to know whose semen is at the site of a brutal sexual assault, but it is useful to know whether someone's DNA is on her own bathroom sink.

 

[analemma]

The telegraph must have Mach or Yummi writing for it.
"Amanda Knox was reportedly having sexual relations with a cocaine dealer who frequented a man who stabbed his brother 16 times, an Italian publication has"

 

[Chris_Halkides]

there are few if any time stamps in chemical tests

Wow...I didn't know Frank Sfarzo has his own line of designer sheets. Nice logo.

Vibio,

Bill Williams wrote, "As for there being no 'date stamp' to DNA, I curious as to why that does not also apply to Amanda's "biological material" found mixed with Meredith's blood in the very bathroom they shared. Just when was the 'date stamp' on Amanda's DNA?" When you are taken to school on forensics by Bill Williams (who has said that he finds DNA to be...uninteresting), it's a sign to acknowledge that your arguments are unconvincing.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Daily Telegraph or Daily Mail?

The telegraph must have Mach or Yummi writing for it.
"Amanda Knox was reportedly having sexual relations with a cocaine dealer who frequented a man who stabbed his brother 16 times, an Italian publication has"

Do you have a link? The closest I could find was a Daily Mail article.