Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Stacyhs]

You do know Raff got through almost a bottle and a half of brand new ACE bleach, and there were a whole load of used rags and latex gloves in his bathroom bin.
No empty bottle of bleach was found so where is that bottle he "got through"?
His maid testified that the bleach was bought well before the murder:

" Ciriboga today said that she usually washed the floors with another detergent, but that she had asked Sollecito to buy bleach. When she stopped working for Sollecito in September one and a half bottles of bleach were still in the house, Ciriboga said." (ABC New, June 26, 2009)

The bin was not full of a "load of damp rags and latex gloves". I just looked at the video; there were two pairs of gloves and no rags, damp or otherwise. Why were the gloves never presented in court as any kind of evidence? Perhaps because that video was made on Nov 11 during the second police search of Raff's apartment and those gloves match the same gloves the police are wearing themselves?

In addition, the flooding the kids reported in his flat was most likely caused by his unassembling the sink U-Bend to clear out the blockages/clean up incriminating debris from the murder clean up,
LOL. Assfact. The pipes had leaked before and a plumber had already been out to fix them a week before unsuccessfully.

rather than a sudden leaking pipe, that started 20:40 according to Papa Raff, as that was the last time they spoke,
Raff mentioned the leaking pipe to his father during the phone call at 8:40. You know, BEFORE Meredith was murdered? Or do you now contend that he was cleaning up from the murder while Meredith was still at her friend's place?


or after 23:00 according to Amanda when they had a late meal (what student cooks at 23:00? Gutting a fish? Really?). Washing up doesn't cause a pipe to leak.
No, but old pipes do and these had a history of leaking. Amanda said they ate between 9:00 and 11:00 and that she wasn't sure what time it was as she didn't pay attention to the time.

Amanda claims the 'pipe burst' as she was fondling him from behind. Burst pipes only happen in the road outside, or as a result of extremely cold weather causing the metal to contract, and frozen water making it expand. Italy is not known for Arctic conditions.
LOL. Fondling? Where do you get that from? Your fertile imagination? Amanda didn't say the pipes "burst". That is the wording Nina Burleigh used in her book on page 139. What Amanda actually said was "The pipes detached and Raff put them back together." (Burleigh pg 139)


We saw Raff's half footprint on the bathmat and Rudy's one-sided shoe prints in the hall. Obviously, someone cleaned around them.It is staring you in the face.

k

No, we saw Guede's footprint. Now, why on earth would someone "clean around them" but leave the rest of the visible prints? How is that even remotely logical to you?

 

[Bill Williams]

k

No, we saw Guede's footprint. Now, why on earth would someone "clean around them" but leave the rest of the visible prints? How is that even remotely logical to you?

Vixen at times has the kids as world class criminals, and at times as monumentally stupid. It's WHT she cannot put together a logical narrative for guilt.

 

[Stacyhs]

"...Raff got through almost a bottle and a half of brand new ACE bleach"
No, one unopened, full bottle and one 1/2 full bottle of bleach were found in his apartment. These were the bottles Ciriboga had asked RS to buy earlier that year when she was cleaning his apartment.

 

[Vixen]

However it is illustrative, as others have pointed out, that PGP and Vixen have to either lie or misrepresent the truth to make their case.

It's the same for their criticism that Vecchiotti's institution was sanctioned for improper storage of cadavers. That criticism, as it relates to Vecchiotti, is a monumental, "So!?"

Vecchiotti's work had nothing to do with the storage of cadavers.

Mignini, on the other hand, was directly sanctioned by his peers for abusing Sollecito's rights at interrogation. Nencini writes that Raffaele's DNA was found on the knife - a mistake in a legal document which threatened to put Sollecito away for 25 years; which Vixen calls, "a typo". (Vixen erased one of her posts upthread which had said that she has personally seen many typos in legal documents.)

The upshot is - who are you going to believe?

Amazing piece of side-stepping there, Bill. Have you ever thought of becoming a politician?

I erased it because I had it mixed up with something else (i.e., how confidential documents keep finding their way into legal papers by accident), but, indeed, I have seen names transformed half way through (eg, Mr Bennett turning into a Mr Butler) and the end document finding its way onto BAILII, forever more.

As for Vecchiotti, action speaks louder than words. Who are you to claim contamination in a clean well-run regulated lab when your own is piled high with rotting bodies, no doubt hatching maggots and blow flies.

 

[Vixen]

Almost a decade has passed since Meredith's murder. If the case against Amanda and Raffaele is such a slam dunk, why does Vixen habitually has to resort to lying in her posts?

How charming. I wish you well.

 

[Vixen]

k

No, we saw Guede's footprint. Now, why on earth would someone "clean around them" but leave the rest of the visible prints? How is that even remotely logical to you?

<s/fx Snort> Pipes do not detach whilst washing up. Papa Raff was obviously just helping his wayward boy with an alibi.

LOL would this be the same cleaner who told the police Raff expressly forbade her buying bleach because he preferred the Lysoform (antiseptic) of his prep school days and Papa Raff's surgery. After she was given a talking to by Raff's lawyers she changed her story. LOL.

The hall floor was of a terracota colour and no doubt they overlooked Rudy's set of prints as they were barely visible to the eye. Thus when luminol was applied, the ensuing footprints looked as though he had hopped along to the front door.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen at times has the kids as world class criminals, and at times as monumentally stupid. It's WHT she cannot put together a logical narrative for guilt.

As Migini tactfully put it, 'Amanda is very astute'.

They knew how to clean a crime scene, and cunning enough to leave Rudy's incriminating faeces in the toilet. Yet too stupid to realise faeces are not a good source of DNA identification, as bacteria deteriorates the DNA rapidly.

 

[bagels]

As Migini tactfully put it, 'Amanda is very astute'.

They knew how to clean a crime scene, and cunning enough to leave Rudy's incriminating faeces in the toilet. Yet too stupid to realise faeces are not a good source of DNA identification, as bacteria deteriorates the DNA rapidly.

Rudy has told a hundred variations on what happened. Every one of them starts with him alone with Meredith, and ends with him alone with her as she dies at his feet.

The truth is the foundation of his story. It's so obvious it's hardly worth thinking about. I continue to find it one of the most fascinating curiosities that some can't see it.

 

[Vixen]

Rudy has told a hundred variations on what happened. Every one of them starts with him alone with Meredith, and ends with him alone with her as she dies at his feet.

The truth is the foundation of his story. It's so obvious it's hardly worth thinking about. I continue to find it one of the most fascinating curiosities that some can't see it.

And who let Rudy in?

From the horse's own mouth we have it: in her 'present' to the cops Amanda explains she took 'Patrick' (=Rudy) to the cottage for sex with Mez.

She says she met him at the basketball court, and we know she was scientifically pinged in that area (and yet falsely claimed to police she didn't go out at all that night).

It is staring you in the face.

 

[bagels]

And who let Rudy in?

From the horse's own mouth we have it: in her 'present' to the cops Amanda explains she took 'Patrick' (=Rudy) to the cottage for sex with Mez.

She says she met him at the basketball court, and we know she was scientifically pinged in that area (and yet falsely claimed to police she didn't go out at all that night).

It is staring you in the face.

It's time to move on Vixen. Do you really need to stick around and witness the ECHR crush the last remaining PGP crumbs to ashes? There's nothing to be gained

 

[Welshman]

How charming. I wish you well.

Vixen refuses to answer my question.

 

[Bill Williams]

And who let Rudy in?

From the horse's own mouth we have it: in her 'present' to the cops Amanda explains she took 'Patrick' (=Rudy) to the cottage for sex with Mez.

She says she met him at the basketball court, and we know she was scientifically pinged in that area (and yet falsely claimed to police she didn't go out at all that night).
It is staring you in the face.

The Nencini report makes a big deal about Knox's cellphone being pinged at a tower that Raffaele's place could not reach.

However, Vixen, you obviously have not read Nencini's report - if you did, you'd realize that he was trying to make some other point.

Nencini said that this pinging happened BEFORE Jovana Popovic came by Raffaele's apartment to let him know that he'd not be needed to pick up her luggage. That was 8:40 pm on the 5th, and Popovic talked to Knox at the front door.

Nencini did not mean this pinging to prove that Knox had then left Raffaele's to meet someone at the plaza, Nencini meant that she'd left BEFORE and returned, but that this then meant that Knox had been dishonest in saying she'd been at Raffaele's all evening.

However, even this pinging stuff has been discredited, but once again it does not mean what you imply it means. It get fairly bad when you don't even understand the arguments the convicting judges made.....

 

[Bill Williams]

As Migini tactfully put it, 'Amanda is very astute'.

They knew how to clean a crime scene, and cunning enough to leave Rudy's incriminating faeces in the toilet. Yet too stupid to realise faeces are not a good source of DNA identification, as bacteria deteriorates the DNA rapidly.

And where did Amanda and/or Raffaele acquire this knowledge? This is how bizarre your claims are. Is this the standard Jesuit education one gets in Seattle?

And if she had this knowledge, why did she not get rid of the bathmat, or wipe away the drop of her blood (unmixed with anything) on the faucet?

And consider what you're saying.... you are positing a double-clean: not only to remove two of the three sets of forensics, but also to remove the signs that a clean had taken taken place. Consider that luminol reveals the invisible swirls of bleach which is left when one cleans up! Amanda and/or Raffaele must have had a portable luminol kit with them to take away every last trace of bleach (in a distinctive swirl).

Gosh darn it, Vixen, you're definitely on to something. Mignini says, "Amanda is very astute", to the point of being a mastercriminal, but not so astute as to remove obvious signs like the bathmat (which is an unidentifible print, except to remove consideration of suspects!)

 

[Vixen]

The Nencini report makes a big deal about Knox's cellphone being pinged at a tower that Raffaele's place could not reach.

However, Vixen, you obviously have not read Nencini's report - if you did, you'd realize that he was trying to make some other point.

Nencini said that this pinging happened BEFORE Jovana Popovic came by Raffaele's apartment to let him know that he'd not be needed to pick up her luggage. That was 8:40 pm on the 5th, and Popovic talked to Knox at the front door.

Nencini did not mean this pinging to prove that Knox had then left Raffaele's to meet someone at the plaza, Nencini meant that she'd left BEFORE and returned, but that this then meant that Knox had been dishonest in saying she'd been at Raffaele's all evening.

However, even this pinging stuff has been discredited, but once again it does not mean what you imply it means. It get fairly bad when you don't even understand the arguments the convicting judges made.....

As Nick Van Der Leek points out, Nencini got the pings the wrong way round. Thus, when Amanda opened Patrick's message, which he sent 20:17, it was circa 20:42 near the basketball court.

Raff himself in an early signed statement to the police claimed he returned from the Old Town alone and that Amanda was by his side when his Papa called 20:42. He also swore he did not know where Amanda was between 20:45 and 01.00, the time when she arrived home.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen refuses to answer my question.

Ask politely.

 

[Vixen]

The Nencini report makes a big deal about Knox's cellphone being pinged at a tower that Raffaele's place could not reach.

However, Vixen, you obviously have not read Nencini's report - if you did, you'd realize that he was trying to make some other point.

Nencini said that this pinging happened BEFORE Jovana Popovic came by Raffaele's apartment to let him know that he'd not be needed to pick up her luggage. That was 8:40 pm on the 5th, and Popovic talked to Knox at the front door.

Nencini did not mean this pinging to prove that Knox had then left Raffaele's to meet someone at the plaza, Nencini meant that she'd left BEFORE and returned, but that this then meant that Knox had been dishonest in saying she'd been at Raffaele's all evening.

However, even this pinging stuff has been discredited, but once again it does not mean what you imply it means. It get fairly bad when you don't even understand the arguments the convicting judges made.....

We only have Popovic's word for it she arrived exactly 20:40. She initially said Amanda was just on her way out the door. Popovic's timing is based on how long it took to walk from her last medical lesson.

 

[Bill Williams]

We only have Popovic's word for it she arrived exactly 20:40. She initially said Amanda was just on her way out the door. Popovic's timing is based on how long it took to walk from her last medical lesson.

You've now proven two things beyond doubt.

One is that you've not read the Nencini report, nor understood why he wrote what he wrote. Then again you believe he leaves typos unaddressed!

The other is that you've not read the Massei report, nor understood why he wrote what he wrote. With regard to Popovic, you've just contradicted Massei's. Maybe that's a typo, too.

 

[Vixen]

And where did Amanda and/or Raffaele acquire this knowledge? This is how bizarre your claims are. Is this the standard Jesuit education one gets in Seattle?

And if she had this knowledge, why did she not get rid of the bathmat, or wipe away the drop of her blood (unmixed with anything) on the faucet?

And consider what you're saying.... you are positing a double-clean: not only to remove two of the three sets of forensics, but also to remove the signs that a clean had taken taken place. Consider that luminol reveals the invisible swirls of bleach which is left when one cleans up! Amanda and/or Raffaele must have had a portable luminol kit with them to take away every last trace of bleach (in a distinctive swirl).

Gosh darn it, Vixen, you're definitely on to something. Mignini says, "Amanda is very astute", to the point of being a mastercriminal, but not so astute as to remove obvious signs like the bathmat (which is an unidentifible print, except to remove consideration of suspects!)

As that chap says, criminals always leave something of themselves behind. Think of the enormity of the crime and how thoroughly exhausted the kids looked next day, despite claiming to have relaxed and slept almost twelve hours. Police were pretty convinced the kids had surfed the net about 'bleach' in the early hours. They'd soon find out which type of bleach evades luminol. Some believe Raff fried one of the relevant laptops, himself.

Amanda did spend a lot of time ferrying a mop around, and the washing machine was going, too.

Even if the perps were very clever and up half he night, in their exhaustion, lack of sleep and surprise interruption by the appearance of the police, there was bound to be ample evidence left behind. Raff was not to know the bra clasp was still under Mez body and would later nail him.

 

[Bill Williams]

As that chap says, criminals always leave something of themselves behind. Think of the enormity of the crime and how thoroughly exhausted the kids looked next day, despite claiming to have relaxed and slept almost twelve hours. Police were pretty convinced the kids had surfed the net about 'bleach' in the early hours. They'd soon find out which type of bleach evades luminol. Some believe Raff fried one of the relevant laptops, himself.

Amanda did spend a lot of time ferrying a mop around, and the washing machine was going, too.

Even if the perps were very clever and up half he night, in their exhaustion, lack of sleep and surprise interruption by the appearance of the police, there was bound to be ample evidence left behind. Raff was not to know the bra clasp was still under Mez body and would later nail him.

And the hits just keep on coming. It is unbelievable that you've engaged in this campaign against AK and RS with statements like:

"They'd soon find out which type of bleach evades luminol."​

Do you ever read your posts?

Was it chlorine bleach or oxygen bleach to which you refer? And of course you can point to the relevant conversation about non-detectable bleach in the Massei or Nencini reports?

No? I guess those were typos, too.

Are you not embarrassed just to make this stuff up as you go?

 

[Planigale]

And the hits just keep on coming. It is unbelievable that you've engaged in this campaign against AK and RS with statements like:

"They'd soon find out which type of bleach evades luminol."​

Do you ever read your posts?

Was it chlorine bleach or oxygen bleach to which you refer? And of course you can point to the relevant conversation about non-detectable bleach in the Massei or Nencini reports?

No? I guess those were typos, too.

Are you not embarrassed just to make this stuff up as you go?

Vixen does post stuff that has been previously discredited. The bleach in Sollecito's flat that was unused. But no evidence of bleach used in Knox's place. As Chloride (or Chris Halkides to the rest of you) has pointed out there are distinct features to the DNA exposed to bleach so we actually know that the Blood was not exposed to bleach. The cleaning agents both bleach and lysoform react with luminal and would have been detected. No evidence of used cleaning materials was found at Knox's. The mop was not contaminated with blood. The latex gloves at Sollecito's were discarded by the police. The washing machine was not on when the police arrived at Sollecito's.

Vixen thinks students don't cook at 23.30. I can tell you that midnight munchies are a real phenomenon, my omelette sandwiches were quite popular on Friday nights.

As has been said if evidence has to be literally made up to justify a belief of guilt then this is pretty good proof that the prosecution did not have the evidence for a guilty verdict. Proving guilt is easy if you can just make up evidence.