Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[TruthCalls]

I dare say she was brought up as a brat, used to lying and histrionics to get her own way.

Well hell's bells, I had NO idea you grew up with Amanda and knew her and her family so well. It seems a bit odd that everyone else who knows her says the exact opposite of her but whatever -- thanks for setting the record straight.

 

[TruthCalls]

It's not just the truth that Vixen tosses out with the bathwater, it's logic. But in all fairness, the Italian courts threw out logic in their administration of the case first. A lot of things baffled me in this case, but beyond a doubt the way the statements were allowed into the trial mystified me most of all.

I'm sure that alone will be enough for the ECHR to rule in Amanda's favor. Italy basically already said we know this is wrong, but so what?

I hate to sound so confident. Especially when considering this case.

I can understand the hesitation but remember, this is NOT Italy - it's the ECHR, where logic and the rule of law is typically followed.

 

[acbytesla]

I can understand the hesitation but remember, this is NOT Italy - it's the ECHR, where logic and the rule of law is typically followed.

That's the big reason I do feel confident. Italy makes little sense at all.

 

[Methos]

Sarzanini's book was never suppressed, where did you get this one???

Amanda made a court application to have the case dismissed and a demand for €500K damages claiming the book and the newspaper excerpts prejudiced her case.

I think you are right on the claim that: "the book and the newspaper excerpts prejudiced her case.", but I guess you have a "0" too much in your demand for damages, and you might want to explain the highlighted part, it just doesn't make sense...
I was able to buy the Sarzanini book without problems when that request was still making its way through the courts so how could it be "suppressed"?
Just for the record: I'm not going to play the dictionary game with you...

 

[Methos]

Are you trying to claim the nude photos are just an internet rumour?
This person did have the photos and he did try to sell them to the tabloids, who gave him the bum's rush, even though they, too, were in the gutter and looking at the stars, as Oscar Wilde put it.

There are no depths too low to which some of Amanda's supporters will not sink.

No, the photos exist. Amanda Knox herself tells us in her book that they were taken, and a certain Admin on a certain pro-guilt board (your "source" supposedly) has bragged about having them.
So the existence of the photos is not in question. The question is, if "some blogger" as Barbie Nadeau put it in her "article", tried to sell them to the media (something you seem to take as a given without question), and if that "blogger" was identified correctly by those speculating on PMF? (Another thing that you seem to accept as true without question.)
It's interesting that you are able to reach the conclusion "There are no depths too low to which some of Amanda's supporters will not sink." that easily...

 

[Methos]

Sorry, it would be completely against my principles to have anything to do with such a picture, and I most certainly would not be passing them on.

I do know a reliable source who has seen them.

I note someone called @zebbidi947 has posted a picture of the nude corpse of Mez to @RudyGuede on twitter, so you see, if anyone leaked questionable material, chances are it was the defence team. For example, Papa Raff passed autopsy pictures to an Italian tv company and a leading member of Injustice Anywhere brags of being in possession of all autopsy photos as well as some woman in New Zealand who taunts the Kercher family with them.

This puts the so-called leak of Amanda's childish scribblings into perspective. (It never happened as claimed by Amanda, anyway.)

Did "the defence team" "leak" to the German magazine "Focus", too?
Because this video, it has been online for more than three years now, is the source of that screenshot.

 

[LondonJohn]

Did "the defence team" "leak" to the German magazine "Focus", too?
Because this video, it has been online for more than three years now, is the source of that screenshot.

I severely doubt that Vixen's definition of a "reliable source" is actually anywhere remotely close to an acceptable objective definition of a "reliable source". Therefore this bilge can safely be entirely discounted too.

 

[Bill Williams]

Sorry, it would be completely against my principles to have anything to do with such a picture, and I most certainly would not be passing them on.

I do know a reliable source who has seen them.

I note someone called @zebbidi947 has posted a picture of the nude corpse of Mez to @RudyGuede on twitter, so you see, if anyone leaked questionable material, chances are it was the defence team. For example, Papa Raff passed autopsy pictures to an Italian tv company and a leading member of Injustice Anywhere brags of being in possession of all autopsy photos as well as some woman in New Zealand who taunts the Kercher family with them.

This puts the so-called leak of Amanda's childish scribblings into perspective. (It never happened as claimed by Amanda, anyway.)

Did "the defence team" "leak" to the German magazine "Focus", too?
Because this video, it has been online for more than three years now, is the source of that screenshot.

While Vixen is accusing all and sundry on one side of the fence of all sorts of horrible things, she should consider that it was Maresca himself who showed those horrible photos in court.

This shows a lack of osmotic thinking on Vixen's part. Vixen still has not addressed Stacyhs's questions as per above, nor 'fessed up to to so many other factoid claims..... simply brags herself - "I do know a reliable source who has seen them." She does not even know, though, the territory, so perhaps someone should repost the link to the IIP discussion on how a rumour foisted by Barbie Nadeau turned into a "PIP blogger in possession of nude photos" as what Vixen originally claimed was true above.....

 

[LondonJohn]

No, the photos exist. Amanda Knox herself tells us in her book that they were taken, and a certain Admin on a certain pro-guilt board (your "source" supposedly) has bragged about having them.
So the existence of the photos is not in question. The question is, if "some blogger" as Barbie Nadeau put it in her "article", tried to sell them to the media (something you seem to take as a given without question), and if that "blogger" was identified correctly by those speculating on PMF? (Another thing that you seem to accept as true without question.)
It's interesting that you are able to reach the conclusion "There are no depths too low to which some of Amanda's supporters will not sink." that easily...

Indeed - Knox writes in her book about the harrowing experience of having the authorities photograph her genitals in detail, and her naked body in general, soon after she was taken into custody. If it's these photos that are the ones in issue (assuming for a moment, therefore, that Knox had not taken, or had taken, her own erotic photos of her own body some time previously, which were either sitting on her computer or that she'd sent to someone else), then clearly the primary source for the photos would have been the law enforcement authorities.

It's entirely possible that the photos were included in the evidence bundle that was passed to the defence lawyers, to which Knox's family would also have had access. But even if that were the case, the only way that the defence "side" could have been responsible for any possible leak and attempted sale would be if either a) Knox's lawyers or her family had tried to sell the photos (vanishingly unlikely of course), or if Knox's lawyers or her family had for some reason passed these photos onto a third party (a "blogger", perhaps) who in turn had tried to sell them. But then one would have to ask why Knox's lawyers or her family would have been passing such photos over to "bloggers" in the first place.

Or....... the photos were leaked from a porous and corrupt part of the Italian law enforcement community (for a good precedent, see also the sale of crime scene photos taken on a private camera by one of the investigating police officers.......) - either by a corrupt policeman or by someone within the prosecutor's office, neither of whom would owe any duty of allegiance or sympathy to Knox, and either of whom therefore would probably have few qualms about trying to make money out of selling nude photos of her (albeit harrowing, clinical photos with roughly zero erotic value).

Hmm. I wonder which of those alternatives makes more sense, when everything's analysed properly............?

 

[Anode]

Indeed - Knox writes in her book about the harrowing experience of having the authorities photograph her genitals in detail, and her naked body in general, soon after she was taken into custody. If it's these photos that are the ones in issue (assuming for a moment, therefore, that Knox had not taken, or had taken, her own erotic photos of her own body some time previously, which were either sitting on her computer or that she'd sent to someone else), then clearly the primary source for the photos would have been the law enforcement authorities.

It's entirely possible that the photos were included in the evidence bundle that was passed to the defence lawyers, to which Knox's family would also have had access. But even if that were the case, the only way that the defence "side" could have been responsible for any possible leak and attempted sale would be if either a) Knox's lawyers or her family had tried to sell the photos (vanishingly unlikely of course), or if Knox's lawyers or her family had for some reason passed these photos onto a third party (a "blogger", perhaps) who in turn had tried to sell them. But then one would have to ask why Knox's lawyers or her family would have been passing such photos over to "bloggers" in the first place.

Or....... the photos were leaked from a porous and corrupt part of the Italian law enforcement community (for a good precedent, see also the sale of crime scene photos taken on a private camera by one of the investigating police officers.......) - either by a corrupt policeman or by someone within the prosecutor's office, neither of whom would owe any duty of allegiance or sympathy to Knox, and either of whom therefore would probably have few qualms about trying to make money out of selling nude photos of her (albeit harrowing, clinical photos with roughly zero erotic value).

Hmm. I wonder which of those alternatives makes more sense, when everything's analysed properly............?

WRT the highlighted part: So if the authorities took these pictures and examined them we can conclude she had no significant wounds from which she bled. If she did then testimony to such wounds would have come forth in one or more of the trials.

...and I'd be on the pro guilt side.

Sorry to divert the subject but I thought I might add. Carry on.

 

[bagels]

Knox was face to face with trained police officers who respond to domestic disputes all day long within hours of the crime. She then spent significant time in their presence every day until she was arrested, which was only five days later. Upon her arrest she was examined by a trained medical examiner. Nobody at any point believed she had any wounds from any kind of assault, let alone a wound that could bleed. It's another delusional fantasy the PGP believe that makes no sense, like the postal police officer noticing an impossible time on his watch.

 

[LondonJohn]

Knox was face to face with trained police officers who respond to domestic disputes all day long within hours of the crime. She then spent significant time in their presence every day until she was arrested, which was only five days later. Upon her arrest she was examined by a trained medical examiner. Nobody at any point believed she had any wounds from any kind of assault, let alone a wound that could bleed. It's another delusional fantasy the PGP believe that makes no sense, like the postal police officer noticing an impossible time on his watch.

And as part of that, let's not also forget the classically inane "nosebleed caused by a blow to the face which left no surface marks or bruises" routine, to try to support a claim of Knox bleeding concurrently with Kercher.

Oh, and who could also forget the hilarious "Knox and Sollecito were off their heads on Class A drugs on and around the night of the murder" sketch, when evidence of such drug use would quickly and easily have been detected by subsequent blood and hair tests.

As I wrote earlier, the combination of ignorance, low intellect, dreadfully low reasoning skills and in-built bias which appears to drive most pro-guilt commentators is quite something to behold. Fortunately these individuals count for nothing in the ephemeral world of internet forums - heaven help us if they were actually important in the real world in any way*.


* Though of course at least one such individual uses his "skills" in the real world to con vulnerable sick people and those with sick children, and is thus potentially causing very real harm on many levels. Which tells one everything, really.

 

[Stacyhs]

Of course. I just wanted to wake Vixen up to the legal facts in this case. The Italians could only hope that the ECHR wasn't going to hear this case. That was their only chance. But given the pub on this case that was hoping against all odds. This is an opportunity to slap Italy down for these types of abuses in a very public way.

Maybe Numbers knows just who in Italy is responsible for dealing with the ECHR and how they go about responding.

Waking Vixen up to the facts is like trying to wake up Ichabod Crane.

 

[acbytesla]

Waking Vixen up to the facts is like trying to wake up Ichabod Crane.

I was hoping for maybe Rip Van Winkle.

 

[Stacyhs]

They were detained for hours on end at the questura. Sophie was not allowed to leave Perugia. She was interrogated as to the final moments she spent with Mez. She had her phone wiretapped. As Amanda, in a loud Chinese whisper, 'named' Sophie's boyfriend, Khiri 'Shaky' Hicham, as 'very suspicious', in the bugged questura, police put him under very close surveillance.Amanda certainly threw quite a few people under the bus to save herself.

So big deal, Filomena once smoked dope. So did Bill Clinton.

k

OH Please! Sophie was never subjected to the same intensity or hours of interrogations that Amanda was because she was never really a suspect and you know it. Sophie being told not to leave Perugia is hardly being subjected to a "hard time".

Shaky was not Sophie's boyfriend. As she told the police, he'd tried to kiss her a few times and she had let him...once. How does that constitute being her "boyfriend"? "Loud Chinese whisper". How very dramatic and very untrue.

This is from the transcript of the entire conversation concerning Hicham between Amanda and Raffaele in the questura waiting room. Nowhere does she say he is "suspicious":

>Amanda: “He was kind to find me a job, but I don’t like him anymore ... I don’t like how he treats woman ... he gets angry ...”
Raffaele: “Are you talking about the “Le Chic” guy?”
A: “No ... (... it is hard to understand ...)
Raffaele: “Are you talking about Spiros?
A: “(..... incomprehensible answer .....), then she adds in Italian “He came on to me”.
R: (..... incomprehensible .....)
Amanda mutters something ...
LONG SILENCE
THE CONVERSATION RESTARTS CONCERNING UNIMPORTANT MATTERS<
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...ecito-Police-Station-Intercept-4-Nov-2007.pdf


Let's discuss who threw whom "under the bus". Sophie, who had met Amanda only one time, told the police that Amanda "might have slept with" the guy from the internet café (Juve). They were only friends and never slept together as Juve clearly testified. Nor was he on Amanda's list of sex partners.

I never said it was a big deal that Filomena smoked pot. YOU claimed she had never lied. I showed she did....in court under oath. You know...perjury. But nice try.

 

[Stacyhs]

I dare say she was brought up as a brat, used to lying and histrionics to get her own way.

You can "dare to say" it all you want but the statements from her childhood friends, teachers, and classmates say otherwise. But don't let that get in the way of your imagination.

 

[Stacyhs]

Are you trying to claim the nude photos are just an internet rumour?

This person did have the photos and he did try to sell them to the tabloids, who gave him the bum's rush, even though they, too, were in the gutter and looking at the stars, as Oscar Wilde put it.

There are no depths too low to which some of Amanda's supporters will not sink.

He'll have plenty of company as some of your fellow PGPs will be right alongside him.

 

[Stacyhs]

You've STILL not at all addressed anything in Methos's recreation of the "nude picture" factoid. I guess I need to take a number because you've still not addressed any of Stacyhs's issues with similar factoids you just chuck into this thread.

I have this same problem with another PGP who considers her undergraduate science classes knowledge to be superior to that of those who hold doctorates. When asked a direct question (repeatedly) that she knows she cannot answer, she skirts all around it with some long explanation that doesn't actually answer the question. When confronted with the fact that she hasn't answered the actual question, she claims she's answered it "many, many times" and refuses to "answer it again". She spends far more time and energy claiming she's answered it and why she won't answer it again than just answering the question. It's gotten to be hysterical watching her predictable responses.

 

[Stacyhs]

Well hell's bells, I had NO idea you grew up with Amanda and knew her and her family so well. It seems a bit odd that everyone else who knows her says the exact opposite of her but whatever -- thanks for setting the record straight.

When she graduated from middle school in 2001, l guess Amanda was awarded the Manvel Schaffleur Award, given to the student who “best exemplifies academic excellence, community service, enthusiasm, kindness, and total integrity in all matters, large and small," because she was a spoiled brat given to histrionics! She just held her breath until she turned blue, threw herself down on the floor and threw a tantrum until she got that darn award!

 

[Stacyhs]

WRT the highlighted part: So if the authorities took these pictures and examined them we can conclude she had no significant wounds from which she bled. If she did then testimony to such wounds would have come forth in one or more of the trials.

...and I'd be on the pro guilt side.

Sorry to divert the subject but I thought I might add. Carry on.

And, of course, the prison doctor mistook the "wound" on her neck for a harmless hickey! Come to think of it, so did all the police during her interrogations who, naturally, were not looking for any signs of wounds on her.