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Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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I think this article is about a criminal prosecution for defamation.

The word "querela" can mean (civil) lawsuit, but in the context of the article, I believe it means "complaint". Mignini and two police women brought the complaint of criminal defamation which would be pursued as a criminal case by a prosecutor. If it were not a criminal case, a prosecutor would not be asking that the case be "archived" (dismissed? or suspended?).
....

A clarification on the text of the article and the meaning of the word Google translates as "archive".

The paragraph of interest is:

Chiesta l’archiviazione La querela per diffamazione, firmata dal sostituto procuratore generale Mignini e da due poliziotte che quando prestavano servizio alla squadra mobile hanno svolto indagini sull’omicidio di Meredith, ha ricevuto una richiesta d’archiviazione da parte del pm di Firenze contro la quale è stata avanzata opposizione.

While "archiviazione" means archive or place into storage, it has a special meaning in Italian legal terminology. According to an Italian-English legal terminology glossary included in The Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, edited by Gialuz, Luparia and Scarpa,"archiviazione" means "drop the case". The term "querela" means "complaint".
 
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Red herring. No one has claimed Amanda's DNA came from spermatozoa. You insist that, because Amanda's DNA in a sample was greater than Meredith's, then the source had to have been blood. Yet no expert testified in court that this was so, including Stefanoni. She clearly testified it is not possible to determine the source. Yet, you insist on claiming that Stefanoni believed this was so because Garofano claimed she said it in DD. That, and "common sense".

As you have never read Darkness Descending it's no surprise you have your attributions wrong.
 
We don't actually know any of this as Stefanoni violates the number 1 tenet of Science and that being testability. No one including Stefanoni could reproduce her results. When one considers this in combination with her lack of transparent work process makes the test results are dubious at best.

There were the defense forensic witnesses. Of course criminals leave as little DNA behind as possible. Minute traces of DNA can be amplified (the basic profile duplicated over and over again). It's all the more remarkable Mez' near full DNA profile called out from the grave.

There is no innocent explanation for Mez' DNA to be on Raff's kitchen knife.
 
Just where is this from? Certainly not anything presented in court. Do you not see the logical inconsistency in what you write? If only one sample was of sufficient quality to test for DNA how does one know the other samples were human (after all there is all that unexplained cat blood and we know psychopaths often start on animals!). Since we know the results of the microscopy exam found only cellular material near the hilt (subsequently shown to be starch granules from flour), how were these 12 pieces of tissue identified? This is the greatest flight of fantasy you have presented so far. Do you have no limits on making stuff up?

This is a direct quote from Stefanoni in Darkness Descending IIRC.
 

Please cite your source for this claim.

Speaking of red herrings, bringing up Raffaele's "pricked the back of Mez' hand" story is exactly that as he later explained that he "imagined" the incident in his panic to understand how Meredith's DNA could have been deposited on his kitchen knife. He wrote that something similar had happened at the via della Pergola kitchen when he had made the girls lunch. Panic induced imaginings are not "lies". Alas, no blood of any kind, much less Meredith's, was found on the knife. Nor was her DNA.

I asked you yesterday to "Please provide Amanda's quote and cite the source of the bathroom being cleaned the day before." Still waiting.....


It is a fact: Mez' DNA was found on the knife blade.

REPERTOIRE 137: dripping of blood substance from the interior of the basin, in the small bathroom, containing mixture of organic substances belonging to the victim and Knox: the location of the find should be ascribed with certainty to the moment immediately after the crime, because otherwise the trace would be It was eliminated by running water.

REPERTOIRE 66: Mixture of biological substances, containing human blood, belonging to Knox (to a lesser extent) and the victim (to a greater extent), found in the left edge of the drain of the small bathroom bidet. Another very relevant factor, attributed with certainty to the moment immediately after the crime, because otherwise the trace would be eliminated by running water.

REPERTOIRE 24: Substance where blood was found Amanda's genetic profile, is placed on the faucet of the bathroom sink next to the victim's room: the significance of the find there is little to discuss. It 'probably indicative of an injury suffered in the scuffle from Knox and due to the high visibility of the track, it is possible that he could have been left before the crime.

It is an almost decisive evidence against Amanda about her presence at the crime scene the night between 1 and 2 November. As has been said, the bloodstain found appears very visibly, on the sink faucet bathroom adjoining the murder room. The stain, obvious to the naked eye, as verified by the Scientific Police Service of Rome, with the 19:11:07 report, belongs to Amanda Knox, and for size and placement on the faucet, may have been left as a result of the nosebleeds KNOX same.

The visibility of the stain is such to exclude, as has been said, that the same may have been left in the days before the crime, as it would surely have been washed.
Ref. Ril. Photo No.2 blood substance where it was found compatible genetic profile of Amanda and Meredith, found in the bidet in the bathroom adjoining the room the victim;

Ref. Photo no.3 Ril impression Fragment papillary attributed to Amanda Knox highlighted on a glass in the sink of the kitchen-living room

Ref. Ril. THE KNOWN REPERTOIRE 36. Photo 4 knife seized in Sollecito's house where he was found on the handle genetic profile compatible with Amanda Knox and the genetic profile blade compatible with Meredith Kercher. Resets all considerations on this knife and that Meredith could not have had contact under normal conditions with the part of the blade end of the knife. And the track due the accused Knox is significantly right on the handle end, where she began the lateral extension of the handle and where, therefore, be pushed once to the blade penetration and hindered the fingers of those who wield the knife from slipping onto the blade. Another detail of extraordinary importance.
Source www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com

In addition, the original source for Mignini was when Amanda asked to make spontaneous statements to him (without interrogation) and she confirmed the bathroom had been clean the day before.
 
Bill, take a look at the beginning of the video where the two lawyers and Panella are walking down the driveway. Panella is walking next to the female lawyer. He appears to be no more than 3 inches taller than her. That makes this woman about 6'4". LOL!!

Many women are easily 6' when wearing high heels.
 
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No, dear. Amanda did not sleep with anyone involved with the Mafia. I assume you are referring to the man in Florence who was later found to be a drug dealer? She never "slept with"/had intercourse with him. That's why he wasn't included in her list of men she'd had sex with in her prison diary.



FOA did not pay anyone, so there's lie #1. The video of the rock climber is from a program produced by the UK's Channel 5. The climber, Ricardo Panella, is identified as "a climbing enthusiast" and "experienced" not as a "professional". Lie #2.
When Panella is asked if the climb requires an experienced climber, or only someone who is tall, athletic, and in reasonably good shape, he answers that it is not a problem "not only for me, for another person, it's not a problem to climb".

No, it is not a reference to Federico, although he has indeed been subsequently imprisoned for drug-smuggling, almost always associated with Serious Organised Crime. Try again.

Rock climbing requires training and skill. It is rubbish to claim that someone off the street can develop them on an impromptu basis.
http://www.climbing.com/tag/technique/
 
Many women are easily 6' when wearing high heels.
The thing is, this woman isn't wearing "high heels", she isn't wearing heels at all. ;)
picture.php
 
Bill Williams said:
It's a question of sources. Vixen claims that Darkness Descending is a better source than both Stefanoni and Judge Massei's court.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

I didn't say that at all.

Then why do you continue to cite Darkness Descending as a faithful record of Stefanoni's testimony, when Stefanoni's testimony is different than what D.D. claims?

But you should be thanked for at least I.D.ing the source you actually use, because then your claims can be fact-checked. That's a start.
 
There were the defense forensic witnesses. Of course criminals leave as little DNA behind as possible. Minute traces of DNA can be amplified (the basic profile duplicated over and over again). It's all the more remarkable Mez' near full DNA profile called out from the grave.

There is no innocent explanation for Mez' DNA to be on Raff's kitchen knife.
As if it makes a difference whether someone was watching or not. For scientific test results to actually be considered valid require repeatability.


Actually there is. Its called CONTAMINATION. Although I'm not sure you would say that is innocent. Maybe a better word is sloppy.
 
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Vixen, as a long time reader and first time poster itt, may I ask what your goal is in continuing to argue about this case? I would also be interested in what motivates those who still find it necessary to defend her, though I'm p. sure I already know their rationale: if they don't then a few folks not really familiar with the case will be misinformed by your 'lies.' Of course, why that is necessary with Amanda back home and going on with her life remains open to question, and the fact that if they stopped responding to your claims this thread would soon die and nobody would see them.

Does anyone know if Amanda herself has participated in any of these debates, or believes they still serve a useful purpose? :confused:
 
As if it makes a difference whether someone was watching or not. For scientific test results to actually be considered valid require repeatability.


Actually there is. Its called CONTAMINATION. Although I'm not sure you would say that is innocent. Maybe a better word is sloppy.

The defense failed to provide any evidence at all the DNA was contaminated.

The merits courts (Massei, Nencini) rejected the submission there was any contamination.

In the meantime, you irrationally and illogically claim the DNA/luminol evidence against the kids is all contaminated/faked, yet that for Rudy 100% sound, even though it was the same forensic labs and team.
 
Vixen, as a long time reader and first time poster itt, may I ask what your goal is in continuing to argue about this case? I would also be interested in what motivates those who still find it necessary to defend her, though I'm p. sure I already know their rationale: if they don't then a few folks not really familiar with the case will be misinformed by your 'lies.' Of course, why that is necessary with Amanda back home and going on with her life remains open to question, and the fact that if they stopped responding to your claims this thread would soon die and nobody would see them.

Does anyone know if Amanda herself has participated in any of these debates, or believes they still serve a useful purpose? :confused:


I watched Piers Morgan tv doc interview with Erin Caffey, a 4'11" woman who wiped out her family when aged 16, with the help of her smirking boyfriend and two others (acbytesla claimed 'people always murder alone' huh!) They armed themselves up to the gills with knives and guns, killing her two little brothers - one being stabbed by a samurai sword repeatedly through the closet door, behind which, he was desperately trying to hide. The mom had her neck hacked and her dad miraculously survived several gunshot wounds including one to the head. Caffey said, after the killings "Holy ****, that was awesome!"

She then went back to her boyfriend's trailer to have sex.

The motive for the crime was entirely trivial and futile ("My parents tried to break up me and my boyfriend"). It was also carefully premeditated.

She shows no remorse and has no concept of the enormity of her crime.

There are many startling similarities to the Kercher murder. IMV Amanda wanted Mez 'dealt with' and goaded Rudy and Raff into being accomplices, as she was - like Caffey - the reckless, irresponsible mastermind, using the promise of sex and driven by jealousy and spite.

In the USA Amanda would be serving life without parole, on the evidence, or even the death penalty, so congratulations, Friends of Amanda, for defending the indefensible.
 
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Thanks for your reply Vixen, but you didn't answer my question. What is your personal goal in continuing to post about Amanda? :boggled:

You are seeking some facsimile of reason from a poster who has just made a bluntly stupid comparison between a women who killed her family - presumably based, in her mind, upon many years of grievances - to Amanda Knox, who had known Meredith Kercher five weeks. Do you honestly expect a satisfying response?
 
Vixen, as a long time reader and first time poster itt, may I ask what your goal is in continuing to argue about this case? I would also be interested in what motivates those who still find it necessary to defend her, though I'm p. sure I already know their rationale: if they don't then a few folks not really familiar with the case will be misinformed by your 'lies.' Of course, why that is necessary with Amanda back home and going on with her life remains open to question, and the fact that if they stopped responding to your claims this thread would soon die and nobody would see them.

Does anyone know if Amanda herself has participated in any of these debates, or believes they still serve a useful purpose? :confused:

I watched Piers Morgan tv doc interview with Erin Caffey, a 4'11" woman who wiped out her family when aged 16, with the help of her smirking boyfriend and two others (acbytesla claimed 'people always murder alone' huh!) They armed themselves up to the gills with knives and guns, killing her two little brothers - one being stabbed by a samurai sword repeatedly through the closet door, behind which, he was desperately trying to hide. The mom had her neck hacked and her dad miraculously survived several gunshot wounds including one to the head. Caffey said, after the killings "Holy ****, that was awesome!"

She then went back to her boyfriend's trailer to have sex.

The motive for the crime was entirely trivial and futile ("My parents tried to break up me and my boyfriend"). It was also carefully premeditated.

She shows no remorse and has no concept of the enormity of her crime.

There are many startling similarities to the Kercher murder. IMV Amanda wanted Mez 'dealt with' and goaded Rudy and Raff into being accomplices, as she was - like Caffey - the reckless, irresponsible mastermind, using the promise of sex and driven by jealousy and spite.

In the USA Amanda would be serving life without parole, on the evidence, or even the death penalty, so congratulations, Friends of Amanda, for defending the indefensible.

In the US, there have been many cases of wrongful conviction, and while not all have been corrected, as of May 15, 2016, there have been 1,783 exonerations of the wrongfully convicted since 1989. Source:

http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/about.aspx

It is indeed an interesting phenomenon that a few anonymous internet posters focus on one case of wrongful provisional conviction in Italy, which was corrected by the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation one year ago, by their acquittal of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito of the rape/murder of Meredith Kercher.

Only Knox's allegedly wrongful final conviction for calunnia against Patrick Lumumba remains legally standing, and that case awaits review by the European Court of Human Rights, which will, based on ECHR case-law, be certain to find that Knox's defense rights were violated in that conviction (IMO).

It is striking that a first-instance Italian court has recently provisionally acquitted Knox of the charges of calunnia against the police for claiming in her trials and appeals that Italian police had mistreated her during her November 5/6 interrogation to coerce her to make statements against Lumumba. That court found that Knox was not guilty - had not committed the crime of calunnia against the police - because her defense rights had been violated during the interrogation.

Many of the posts against Knox and/or Sollecito misrepresent the facts or assume that an accused must prove themselves innocent, rather than that the State must prove them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt under Italian law.

Thus, for example, the State must establish that DNA profile results were obtained accurately and were not the result of contamination; it is not the obligation of the accused to demonstrate that there was contamination. In fact, a careful reading of Stefanoni's results show that there was indeed contamination in her DNA lab results in this case; see:

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contamination-labwork-coverup/

The contamination would more likely affect the allegedly incriminating evidence against Knox and Sollecito rather than the evidence against Guede.

The amount of DNA allegedly on the blade of the knife taken from Sollecito's kitchen was actually "too low" to be detected by the Qubit fluorometer used by Stefanoni for quantification. Thus, any DNA attributed to the knife blade is likely to be merely contamination. It is up to the State to show that it somehow was not. And the State did not show that it wasn't contamination, or that validated procedures of DNA profile analysis were followed. The suppression of DNA electronic raw data by the State show that the State is hiding something - most likely widespread contamination in Stefanoni's DNA lab.

The DNA on the bra clasp included that from several males, several of whom remain unidentified. The clasp was shown in the police video tape to have been handled by the dirty gloves of the scientific police when recovered. This is contamination by definition.

So the posts continuing to claim that they are somehow guilty, contrary to the final and irreversible acquittal of Knox and Sollecito by the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation, and contrary to all the evidence and lack of evidence as understood from a scientific and reasoned viewpoint, are indeed one of the larger mysteries of this case.
 
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You are seeking some facsimile of reason from a poster who has just made a bluntly stupid comparison between a women who killed her family - presumably based, in her mind, upon many years of grievances - to Amanda Knox, who had known Meredith Kercher five weeks. Do you honestly expect a satisfying response?


It is indeed a fatuous and utterly ludicrous comparison - not to mention the type of extremely poor thinking that would come up with "reasoning" along the lines of "I believe that A murdered B, and this significantly informs my view on whether X murdered Y in a totally separate event".

I think that most pro-guilt commentators long ago reached the (incorrect) conclusion that Knox and Sollecito participated in the murder, based on a combination of poor reasoning skills, misinterpretation of evidence, improper deference to the "authority" of the prosecutors and the Massei court, and (in many cases IMO) a personal connection with a victim of violent crime which has dramatically skewed any ability to analyse the case objectively.

And once this conclusion had been formed, it was relatively easy for pro-guilt commentators to satisfy themselves that any pro-innocence/pro-acquittal commentators had some form of vested interest in taking that PoV (either because they were personally connected to Knox/Sollecito, had some sort of sexual lust for Knox, had some sort of "murder groupie" lust in general, or were being paid to adopt this position), and that the subsequent acquitting courts were corrupt.

I find it extremely interesting that again and again one sees pro-guilt commentators stating that pro-innocence commentators "know that Knox and Sollecito did in fact participate in the murder" - it's clearly extremely important to their stance that nobody could have come to any sort of independent, objective, unaffiliated conclusion that Knox/Sollecito should never have been convicted (and that neither in fact might have taken part in the murder).

And then one must add in the "vigilante for justice" angle - many (if not most) pro-guilt commentators display a form of pride in "fighting for the victim" and "doing the right thing" - conveniently choosing to ignore the fact that if Knox and Sollecito are innocent, then campaigning for their guilt is if anything contrary to "fighting for the victim". Very many pro-guilt commentators see themselves as fighting the good fight against unfair forces set against them - and this goes a long way IMO to explaining the ongoing fallacious pro-guilt belief that some form of industrial-grade PR effort has been waged by Knox (mainly) and Sollecito since almost Day One. It suits the pro-guilt narrative and mindset to believe that they are guardians of morality and "true justice" (interesting words in themselves....) against evil and malign forces.

Overall, I'm satisfied that 1) there is no intellectual rigour to any pro-guilt argument; 2) any objective analysis leads to the conclusion that at the very least Knox and Sollecito should never have been convicted, and at most that they had absolutely nothing to do with the murder; and 3) most if not all pro-guilt commentators have psychological factors influencing their position and the vigour/zeal of their ongoing online commentary. Fascinating to be sure, if somewhat unedifying and often nasty and vindictive.
 
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