Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

And some people would do well to investigate critical thinking skills. Lack of them is apparent with certain commentators on the Kercher case.

http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-critical-thinking/766

I could hardly argue with that point. But this problem is not exclusive to this case. I see it with global warming deniers, creationists, Donald Trump supporters and a host of other subjects. Maybe I'm arrogant but I think a very large number of people suffer from this malady.

What I have often found even more amazing is that few of these people realize they suffer from this affliction. They're like Otto in a"A fish called Wanda". They think they're smart.

This case was NEVER hard to figure out. In fact, the case was never really close. It's an embarrassment that it ever made it to trial. Now before some people pop a vein, I never said it wasn't proper to consider and investigate Amanda and Raffaele as potential suspects, just that there was never enough evidence for an arrest let alone a trial.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Let's face it, she buckled and confessed because she was there and almost certainly did it.

There is no other reason she covered up for Rudy's presence.

Your argument is circular.

She knows that Rudy was there and covered it up because she was guilty
She is guilty because she covered up for Rudy's presence.

I'm going to go through a scenario for you, but first, let's go through what the Police knew or suspected prior to the interrogation and make sure we're in agreement.

- The Police started out with the belief that the break in was faked because it was on the 2nd Story

- Once they decided that, they decided that the Killer must have entered the house through the front door.

- To have entered through the door, the killer must have had a key or be let in by someone with a key.

- There was no evidence that Meredith was meeting someone that night to let them in.

- The only other key holders that were nearby that night were Filomena and Amanda.

- CCTV showed a woman heading to the Cottage shortly before the murder. This woman was initially believed to be Amanda.

- CCTV showed a black man heading for the cottage around the time of the murder

- A black man was reported as seen running away from the area of the crime scene

- Amanda had a black boss and was seen speaking to him shortly after the murder

- Amanda and her black boss exchanged text messages on the night of the murder shortly before it occurred.

- Amanda had been acting "strange" in the days after the murder.

Do you agree that this is a valid list of things that the Police knew on the night they called Raf in?

 

[Vixen]

If they bought that bleach for cleaning up, why was it a full bottle when the police found it? Does that really make sense to you?

"Quintavalle might have rung it up as "pizza",

Or, the pizza might have come from the pizzeria which had its name, address, and telephone number on the receipt which was dated Nov 4, not Nov 2, 2007.

As any forensic scientist will tell you, a person leaves something of himself in the place he lives. Hence, Amanda's blood on the faucet from her pierced ear. No wounds were found on her body...unless, of course, you want to drag out the old "wound on her neck" (aka a hickey) nonsense. The bare footprints were never forensically identified as Amanda's and they tested negative for blood with TMB. Finding mixed samples of people living together is normal. Amanda's DNA was already on the items when the tech wiped the overlying blood. Raff and Amanda's DNA was found mixed in his apartment. Several luminol positive samples were also found in his apartment that tested negative for blood. I suppose all of those just happened to have too little blood to test positive, too?


Ah, yes...the alleged long blonde hairs that were never, for some reason, presented in court as evidence. Since Amanda was chemically lightening her hair, which is easily discerned in hair, don't you think this circumstantial evidence would have been presented in court?
What is it that all the judges agreed? Oh..yes...NO physical evidence of Amanda was found in Meredith's bedroom.


But you know all this already. You just can't admit it.

It doesn't matter how she was bleeding, it's that she happened to be bleeding the same time as Mez. She must have been there within half an hour of Mez dying for it still to be liquid enough to mix. Blood clots fast.

Five mixed DNA samples, some of which had more of Amanda's than Mez', suggesting a rich source, such as copious bleeding for there to be so much (white blood cells).

Whose fair hair do you reckon it was?

What was Amanda's and Rudy's DNA alleles doing on Mez' bra fabric?

Whose finger marks on Mez' face and neck?

Whose size 37 shoeprint? Not Rudy's for sure as he'd never be able to cram his size 43's into such a narrow heel, never mind midfoot.

 

[Vixen]

I don't think the police were racist in some southern jim crow let's lynch a random person kind of way, although one of the cops harassing Patrick seemed to be.

I think they had a bias for more easily believing a horrible crime would be connected to a minority or outsider that you see in many police departments.

From their point of view everything fit together. They knew the break-in was staged. This meant somebody connected to the cottage was involved. They had checked every cottage residents alibi, Amanda had the weakest just her boyfriend. In her initial statement Amanda said she was at her boyfriends all night. But they had call logs and it showed the last call she made, just before the murder, was to, of all people, a black male immigrant. When they check her phone it's a message about meeting him later, proving she lied about being in all night on the night of the murder.

It really was a brilliant ah-hah moment for this 90 IQ genius squad.

It doesn't matter how stupid the average cops were, and they are not known for being superbrainy, it's what the detectives make of it all. To rise in the police ranks, you do have to have a modicum of observational skills. In the UK many are fast-tracked from the brightest and best graduates each year.

A good detective is always one step ahead of the criminal, rather like a chess player: they have to think like a crook.

Whilst a rookie cop might victimise minorities, when it comes to solving crimes - which is the criteria regional police forces are judged on - it's not much use arresting and charging the wrong person, who anyway likely has an alibi and none of the forensics match. The onus will be on the police to show there is just cause to refer a case to trial. In the UK it has to get past the Crown Prosecution Service. All police stations have duty solicitors who are on call to be assigned to persons being arrested. It is highly regulated and unlikely any individual cop can bend a charge and frame some random person.

Having been told by this convincing young American woman who put on a good act of being terrified of Patrick, that this was their man, and some of them having seen the corpse, I am sure some of them might well have been incensed enough to hurl abuse at Patrick, which anyway they would have had to do behind their bosses' backs, given the extreme cruelty involved in the murder.

Even Bruno-Marasca found it insurmountaby suspicious that Amanda told police Patrick raped and murdered Mez, when he was completely innocent.

 

[Vixen]

And what would be the award? It would be idiotic to sue the fool and give him a stage and the time to make more wacky accusations.

I would guess besides the PGP maybe 6 people in the world believe Koko was offered 100K. How in the world would the kids' team know it was Koko?

I would like a translation of everything to do with Koko.

In the UK if a person complains about a barrister tampering with a witness, that barrister will be investigated and possibly hauled before a disciplinary board. If he or she has no response to the charges they may find they are struck off and barred from practising.

Bongiorno said she was going to sue Aviello for claiming she offered him €100K to pervert justice. She has never got round to it. This casts an aspersion on her integrity, as it suggests she is not going to sue him, because he has ample proof. For Kokomani to independently make the same claim... well, as Oscar Wilde said, "To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."

 

[Vixen]

Amanda's fingerprint was found on a glass in the kitchen.

So, in your logic, Amanda cleaned ALL her invisible fingerprints, minus the one on the obvious glass in the kitchen, throughout the cottage, including her bedroom, the living room, her bathroom, etc but managed to leave the fingerprints of all those others found? Man, she IS good! Has it ever occurred to you that it was unnecessary to remove her fingerprints from all those places as she lived there? But, according to your logic, she goes through all that work and still manages to leave visible blood in the sink and a bloody footprint of "Raff's" in the bathroom?


“Everything must be taken into account. If the fact will not fit the theory---let the theory go.”
― Agatha Christie, The Mysterious Affair at Styles

It was her table lamp found on the floor of the murder room (that's another trace she was there) yet it was wiped clean of all fingerprints.

Raff's car was wiped free of any of his DNA.

Go figure.

 

[Vixen]

I got news for you. Amanda was found " not guilty". "She didn't get away with it", any more than I did.

BTW, most supermarkets in Seattle sell both farm raised and wild salmon. Personally I can't taste the difference.

With a nice fat bribe in his hand, Hellmann arranged for Amanda to get clean away, with a ready waiting plane back to Seattle via London (and you'll note no Brits came to the airport to mob her).

The difference is in size, freshness, how it is cut and cooked. I noticed a massive difference immediately.

 

[Vixen]

This is not true. I previously posted a paper on sex and finger size, one cannot accurately determine sex from finger size so one can certainly not do so from bruises. I do not know if anyone testified to this in court, I do not remember such testimony (if there was such testimony I would be interested to read it).

If there was no testimony claiming that these were female prints where did you get this idea from?

Do read the pathologists' reports.

 

[Vixen]

Another falsehood. Why do you think you can get away with lying?
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Fingerprints

So there was one fingerprint on a glass. So the exception proves the rule. There was otherwise, none.

 

[Vixen]

Way to go Raffaele! I'm so proud of him. He has stood up for himself and the tide has definitely turned in his favor.
"Amanda Knox’s ex-boyfriend, who was also accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher, has landed a job on an Italian TV show as a murder expert.
Rafaelle Sollecito, who spent four years behind bars, is now a criminologist on Il giallo della settimana, or The Mystery of the Week."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/04/06/amanda-knoxs-ex-boyfriend-lands-tv-job-as-murder-expert.html

LOL. Whatever next? Jeff Dahmer, cookery presenter; Ed Gein, interior decorator reporter; Ted Bundy, Millionaire Matchmaker candidate; Jodie Arias, Real Housewives of US Penitentiaries; Timothy McVeigh, Big Bang Theory star...?

Do Italian viewers really want to see Raff's smug supercillious face on every episode of Mystery of the Week.

"Well, you see, Guiseppe, it's the bent police, who are all corrupt."

 

[Vixen]

Food is not exempt VAT and what exactly has HM Inspector of Taxes to do with Italy; a republic! You do write absolute nonsense.

All countries in the EU are covered by VAT rules.

 

[Vixen]

Yup (actually the VAT situation on foods in the UK is arcane and byzantine in any case, though I think supermarket-bought chilled/frozen pizzas actually are exempt in the UK.....) - VAT is a country-by-country taxation levy, not a Europe-wide levy. So it's a silly thing to write to start with.

But that's not even to mention the fact (discussed here already in response) that the receipt in question was unequivocally and provably issued by a pizza restaurant in Perugia, and it was dated three days after the murder (and two days after Knox's alleged visit to Quintavalle's store).

I really don't know what makes some people literally make things up as they go along. Is it for their own amusement? Is it because supporting their position at any and all costs is the inviolate priority, and the truth be damned if it gets in the way of that aim? Is it nothing more than a combination of ignorance and poor analytical skills, and/or a genuine inability to tell truth from lies? Very interesting and illuminating all the same.

No more ridiculous than the idea that if you can't find the receipt you cannot prove they bought it. Hello, it's under the sink.

 

[Vixen]

The truly depressing thing is that Vixen claims to be an accountant and even assuming Vixen was getting Italy confused with the UK, Vixen clearly fails to understand the difference between zero rated and VAT exempt goods and services. Pretty much a basic competency I would have thought.

A firm I worked for was involved in investigating worldwide "carousel" fraud, recouping HMRC and the British tax payer £'000m worth of misappropriated VAT, not to mention TOMS VAT in the travel industry, I'd say I am as informed as any.

I didn't want to bother the forum's pretty little head with the finer minutiae of the different types, so well done in knowing of them. Well spotted.

 

[Vixen]

It was Patrick Lumumba who said the police called him a "dirty black". Ask him if they were racist.

The police "were keen to pin it on the black guy" because they wrongly thought a textile fiber, found in Meredith's hand, was a negroid hair. If they had only waited for the forensic results to come back...

Actually, at that stage, they had no idea who did it. They did consider someone familiar with Halal butchering, from the way the victim was slaughtered, so did look for North Africans initially, rather than Sub-Saharan. Plus a sobbing terrified young woman telling them it was a black guy. It was a logical deduction rather than racist bigotry.

 

[Vixen]

I could hardly argue with that point. But this problem is not exclusive to this case. I see it with global warming deniers, creationists, Donald Trump supporters and a host of other subjects. Maybe I'm arrogant but I think a very large number of people suffer from this malady.

What I have often found even more amazing is that few of these people realize they suffer from this affliction. They're like Otto in a"A fish called Wanda". They think they're smart.

This case was NEVER hard to figure out. In fact, the case was never really close. It's an embarrassment that it ever made it to trial. Now before some people pop a vein, I never said it wasn't proper to consider and investigate Amanda and Raffaele as potential suspects, just that there was never enough evidence for an arrest let alone a trial.

Logical fallacy: "I've correctly named X and Y as being quite dreadful, therefore it follows that my views on Amanda and Raff must be astoundingly correct, if only the morons, as defined by me, could accept this without question."

 

[Vixen]

Your argument is circular.

She knows that Rudy was there and covered it up because she was guilty
She is guilty because she covered up for Rudy's presence.

I'm going to go through a scenario for you, but first, let's go through what the Police knew or suspected prior to the interrogation and make sure we're in agreement.

- The Police started out with the belief that the break in was faked because it was on the 2nd Story

- Once they decided that, they decided that the Killer must have entered the house through the front door.

- To have entered through the door, the killer must have had a key or be let in by someone with a key.

- There was no evidence that Meredith was meeting someone that night to let them in.

- The only other key holders that were nearby that night were Filomena and Amanda.

- CCTV showed a woman heading to the Cottage shortly before the murder. This woman was initially believed to be Amanda.

- CCTV showed a black man heading for the cottage around the time of the murder

- A black man was reported as seen running away from the area of the crime scene

- Amanda had a black boss and was seen speaking to him shortly after the murder

- Amanda and her black boss exchanged text messages on the night of the murder shortly before it occurred.

- Amanda had been acting "strange" in the days after the murder.

Do you agree that this is a valid list of things that the Police knew on the night they called Raf in?

Italian police, actually being very bright, didn't follow this line of reasoning at all. Your logical fallacy = false premises.

 

[Mr Fied]

It doesn't matter how she was bleeding, it's that she happened to be bleeding the same time as Mez. She must have been there within half an hour of Mez dying for it still to be liquid enough to mix. Blood clots fast.

Five mixed DNA samples, some of which had more of Amanda's than Mez', suggesting a rich source, such as copious bleeding for there to be so much (white blood cells).

Whose fair hair do you reckon it was?

What was Amanda's and Rudy's DNA alleles doing on Mez' bra fabric?

Whose finger marks on Mez' face and neck?

Whose size 37 shoeprint? Not Rudy's for sure as he'd never be able to cram his size 43's into such a narrow heel, never mind midfoot.

Here we go again, I've got half an hour spare so here goes.

1. Is there any PROOF that Knox was bleeding at the same time as Kercher.
Clue: The answer is no. Just as there is no PROOF she was in the cottage at the time of the murder.
The only blood attributed to Knox is a couple of spots on the bathroom tap.

2. Five mixed DNA samples, not Five mixed BLOOD samples. Prove the DNA came from blood. What wounds did the copious bleeding come from?

3. We don't know who's fair hair it was, if it was fair hair at all. The crack forensic squad FORGOT to collect, test and preserve this vital evidence.

4. Were they? Is there any proof of Knox's DNA on the bra? Was it presented as evidence?

5. Ask the crack forensic team who's finger marks they were.

6. What size 37 shoeprint? Oh you mean the partial print from Guede's shoe.

 

[Mr Fied]

So there was one fingerprint on a glass. So the exception proves the rule. There was otherwise, none.

So once again, you are proven to have made a statement that wasn't true.

 

[Mr Fied]

With a nice fat bribe in his hand, Hellmann arranged for Amanda to get clean away, with a ready waiting plane back to Seattle via London (and you'll note no Brits came to the airport to mob her).

Proof of the bribe? No, thought not.

What was the final verdict again?

You know, the only verdict that matters.

The one that overrides all verdicts that have gone before.

The one that means that any verdict from before is null and void.

So, of all the previous courts, which was the only court who came to the correct verdict?

Oh, almost forgot. Was this ready and waiting plane the private jet that had been arranged from the millions paid to the massive pr campaign? Or did it turn out to be a scheduled flight?

The difference is in size, freshness, how it is cut and cooked. I noticed a massive difference immediately.

I hope yours wasn't cut by an Halal butcher, he could be a murderer.

 

[analemma]

Raffaele Sollecito Gets Gig as TV Crime Expert in Italy

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/raffaele-sollecito-gets-gig-tv-crime-expert-italy-n551596

Just saw this

Raffaele becomes the Nancy Grace of Italy.

Might tend to frustrate the Guilters