Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Is that why people under extreme danger **** themselves?

Let's move on from cats. Obviously you couldn't find a better study.

Not to mention if your precious birds were telling the truth, the digestion, emptying the stomach, should have been half over.

It was found on google in, Oh, one nanosecond.

How do you know Mez didn't (hygienically, in the bathroom)?

 

[Bill Williams]

It was found on google in, Oh, one nanosecond.

How do you know Mez didn't (hygienically, in the bathroom)?

Vixen - one of these days you're going to sit bolt upright when it occurs to you that it is ludicrous to make factoid laden claims, then claim it's up to the other guy to prove you wrong.

Seems we're a ways from that eureka moment right now.

 

[acbytesla]

From Massei (summary by Catnip TJMK):

22:13:19 In her last call for the day, Meredith’s English phone does a 9-second GPRS connection to IP address 10.205.46.41, via cell 30064, covering Via della Pergola and which does not cover Via Sperandio (p337, p350). This might have been an MMS message from its size, 4708 bytes received, 2721 bytes sent; alternatively, it may have been a brief WAP Internet connection, but, based on the byte traffic, with no fruitful interaction occuring; alternative three, it was an unintended WAP connection with a delayed disconnection. Since the MMS was not stored in the phone’s memory, the Court inferred that Meredith simply deleted it without opening it (p351, p352, p353)

That was where the phones were found. Pellero determined that across the road in the park that there was a strong signal from the Wind cell antenna. Guess that's irrelevant ?



Here are tidbits from Dr. Pellero's testimony

"99 times out of a 100 the cell repeater 30064 would have been chosen as the repeater serving the points measured in Sant’Angelo Park, there exists a residual possibility in Meredith’s house that could be one, two or three per cent."
Question: It’s not possible to objectively say that the cell repeater 30064 is incompatible with via della Pergola, on the basis of these calculations which take into account the C2 factor, one can say that it is more likely that it was in Sant’Angelo Park, as a probability it’s about 99%?
Answer: Look the probability can be measured in these terms and what I can tell you is that at Sant’Angelo Park, the difference with the next nearest cell repeater is considerable, really considerable, so it would have used this repeater and wouldn’t have searched for another. This also because obviously I have taken into account the results of the measurements that were obtained by the Procura and this certainly permits me to exclude that the repeater 30064 was incompatible with via Sperandio, which emerged from the other side.
The best server cell towers at the cottage (Via Pergola 7) were Piazza Lupatelli GSM11107 and UMTS55201.

The best cell tower for Sant’Angelo Park where the stolen phones were recovered was wind cell 30064. It handled 99% of calls from Sant’Angelo Park and only handled 2 – 3% of calls from Via Pergola 7.

The tower which handled the 10:13 pm MMS message on the stolen phone was wind cell 30064.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/merediths-cell-phone-helps-pinpoint-time-of-death/

 

[Grinder]

From Massei (summary by Catnip TJMK):

22:13:19 In her last call for the day, Meredith’s English phone does a 9-second GPRS connection to IP address 10.205.46.41, via cell 30064, covering Via della Pergola and which does not cover Via Sperandio (p337, p350). This might have been an MMS message from its size, 4708 bytes received, 2721 bytes sent; alternatively, it may have been a brief WAP Internet connection, but, based on the byte traffic, with no fruitful interaction occuring; alternative three, it was an unintended WAP connection with a delayed disconnection. Since the MMS was not stored in the phone’s memory, the Court inferred that Meredith simply deleted it without opening it (p351, p352, p353)

IIRC this was yet another mistake by the local yokel judge just like saying Curatolo was wrong because the disco buses left by 11:30 latest. Idiot.

He didn't even bother to ask Steffi if there was ever a murder knife with DNA but no blood.

 

[acbytesla]

More Cell Phone stuff

Vodaphone Employee – Luca Fioravant
Question – You researched and reported on the transmitting stations that serve Via Della Pergola, which is the home where the crime took place?
Answer – Yes, when they made this request we reffered the request to our engineering department of radio frequency which by using an algorithm that we use in order to design the network, inserted this information from which it appeared that the network cell with a higher level, the so called best server cell was the one located at Piazza Lupatelli, however Via Della Pergola is also within….
Question – Are we speaking of the Vodaphone cell?
Answer – Yes, Vodaphone, exactly. While, lets say, Via Della Pergola is also served by other cells that are at Piazza Forte Braccio, Via Dell Aquila number 5 and Via Berardi and this a client that is at Via Della Pergola had the possibility of connecting to one of these cells.
Vodaphone Employee – Sonia Cieri,
Question – So to be clear, if I don’t get the best server because there is a crane or obstacle, I will get the closest cell station that is in a city and within the cloest hundreds of meters, is this a correct analysis?
Answer – You will connect to one of the closet cells.
Question – One of the cells, perfect. Then which of the GSM cells of Via Lupatelli covers Della Pergola and which covers Via Garibaldi, always referring to the “best server”?the best cell serves the cell of Piazza Lupatelli GSM, that which we call 11107 and UMTS55201, this is the best cell, but…
Question – For who so that we are clear?
Answer – It is the best server for the address of Via Pergola 7, but the sufficient level in order to allow conversations for that address is offered from all six of the cells of Piazza Lupatelli and also from the two cells at Piazza Forte Braccio, of the six cells of Via Dell Acquila and from the station at via Berardi, this….

**At no time does he mention repeater 30064

 

[Planigale]

Ah yet more scientific illiteracy from a pro-guilt ARGUMENT!

1) Digestion and motility (or "intestinal transit") are two different things. Digestion refers to the process related to the breakdown and absorbing of food; motility is the passage of food through the gastrointestinal system.

2) Motility of food from the stomach into the duodenum (and beyond) is usually COMPLETE within 5 hours. That is to say, a meal eaten at 12pm has usually entirely exited the stomach (such that the stomach itself would be totally empty, provided that no other food had been consumed since) by 5pm. But that's entirely irrelevant to our case: the time period we're interested in is the time when food first STARTS to exit the stomach. A medium sized meal can typically take 1-3 hours from start to finish to exit the stomach. In Kercher's case, none of her meal had yet started to leave her stomach, let alone all of it.

3) Motility is only very loosely related to tolerance or inability to process certain proteins (e.g. gluten intolerance or lactose intolerance). Tolerances etc are a DIGESTION issue, not a motility issue. If a person with gluten intolerance eats, say, a slice of bread, that bread is still broken down and liquefied in the stomach in the normal way, and passed through to the duodenum and small intestine in the normal way, but the small intestine is then unable to process the gluten (which then passes out of the body in excrement).

4) Motility through and beyond the stomach has little or nothing to do with glycaemic indices of carbohydrates. All carbohydrates are simpler molecular structures than proteins or fats, and all carbohydrates are thus processed more quickly by the stomach (and exit the stomach first). Simple sugars in liquid form (e.g. a can of coke) will be processed very quickly owing to the suspension of the sucrose in water, but so will a more complex carbohydrate in liquid or semi-liquid form such as porridge. In short, glycaemic indices have pretty much nothing to do with this discussion, and it's an illustration of the illiteracy of the ARGUMENT that they were ever brought up at all.

5) If ARGUMENTS are going to be made on medical/physiological issues in relation to this case, please could they be based on proper scientific facts and knowledge, and with the commensurate level of intellectual rigour? Thank you in advance for your cooperation and adherence to those principles, pro-guilt commentators.

Mostly right. The stomach is mostly concerned with the mechanical breakdown of food. Some digestion occurs in the stomach (breakdown chemically of food to allow absorption). Most digestion occurs in the small bowel. This is where complex carbohydrates are broken down to simple sugars. The discussion about digestion of starch is irrelevant because it only occurs after food has left the stomach. Gluten sensitivity / celiac disease is essentially an allergy. It actually results in increased transit through the gut and malabsorption, lactose intolerance is the 'normal' adult state - European adults are unusual in that they maintain the infantile lactose production into adult life presumably because a dairy rich diet selected out people with this gene (or alternatively someone intelligently designed European adults to be milk drinkers). But both of these are small bowel issues and irrelevant to stomach emptying.

There are a number of things that slow gastric emptying, being hung over, cannabis, but these would delay gastric emptying by about an hour max. The evidence for fear delaying emptying is mixed, stressed mice do have delayed / slowed emptying. The evidence in humans is equivocal but again only slows / delays events. The problem with the Attack theory of fear delaying gastric emptying is it still means the attack had to have occurred early between 21.00 and 21.30.

I suspect the hung over state and possible cannabis use explains why MK stomach was still full on arrival home. But this would not explain a full stomach if she had been doing homework until attacked at 22.30.

 

[Planigale]

You are thinking of substances that pass through the brain stem. Alcohol is one such substance - with almost immediate effect (drunkeness) - and the other, actually, is glucose, as I said. Apart from one or two synthetic drugs and psychotropic substances, such as cannabis or LSD, no other molecule gets past the blood-brain barrier, other than glucose or alcohol.

Simple sugars, including those that ferment, burn energy immediately. Complex carbohydrates, such as pizza, does not.

I am sure Mez was hazed as soon as she arrived home. She was likely held captive audience to her deranged tormenters, until it came to a head circa 22:00 to 22:30.

Most of this is rubbish. One issue for alcohol and some other drugs is mucosal absorption. Hold alcohol in your mouth, sip your drink it gets absorbed from the mouth - also from the stomach. The mouth absorption by passes the liver.

Obviously lots of things get through the blood brain barrier - glucose does but lots of other stuff also. All cells essentially burn glucose, the process of digestion turns carbohydrates (glucose polymers) into glucose. This occurs in the small bowel.

 

[LondonJohn]

That was where the phones were found. Pellero determined that across the road in the park that there was a strong signal from the Wind cell antenna. Guess that's irrelevant ?



Here are tidbits from Dr. Pellero's testimony

"99 times out of a 100 the cell repeater 30064 would have been chosen as the repeater serving the points measured in Sant’Angelo Park, there exists a residual possibility in Meredith’s house that could be one, two or three per cent."
Question: It’s not possible to objectively say that the cell repeater 30064 is incompatible with via della Pergola, on the basis of these calculations which take into account the C2 factor, one can say that it is more likely that it was in Sant’Angelo Park, as a probability it’s about 99%?
Answer: Look the probability can be measured in these terms and what I can tell you is that at Sant’Angelo Park, the difference with the next nearest cell repeater is considerable, really considerable, so it would have used this repeater and wouldn’t have searched for another. This also because obviously I have taken into account the results of the measurements that were obtained by the Procura and this certainly permits me to exclude that the repeater 30064 was incompatible with via Sperandio, which emerged from the other side.
The best server cell towers at the cottage (Via Pergola 7) were Piazza Lupatelli GSM11107 and UMTS55201.

The best cell tower for Sant’Angelo Park where the stolen phones were recovered was wind cell 30064. It handled 99% of calls from Sant’Angelo Park and only handled 2 – 3% of calls from Via Pergola 7.

The tower which handled the 10:13 pm MMS message on the stolen phone was wind cell 30064.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/merediths-cell-phone-helps-pinpoint-time-of-death/

And perhaps the most laughable thing is that the very coverage map that Vixen herself provided in the following post to "prove" cell-by-cell coverage areas on the Wind network:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11131610#post11131610

... shows clearly that Wind cell 30064 does indeed cover the whole of Via Sperandio (and Via del Bulagaio) between the cottage and the place where the phones were ultimately thrown and found in Lana's garden. In other words, it's a fundamental factual inaccuracy to conclude that the phone had to have been at the cottage at the time of this connection: the phone could equally have been ANYWHERE on the route to its final dumping ground. This indicates further that Massei too was technologically illiterate (and intellectually dishonest).

As I recall, this is far from the first time that Vixen has unwittingly posted evidence that disproves her own argument. As someone else once said: you couldn't make it up

 

[LondonJohn]

It was found on google in, Oh, one nanosecond.

How do you know Mez didn't (hygienically, in the bathroom)?

BECAUSE ALL OF HER PIZZA/APPLE CRUMBLE MEAL (INCLUDING RECOGNISABLE PIECES OF THE CONSTITUENT INGREDIENTS OF BOTH COURSES) WAS FOUND INSIDE HER STOMACH AT AUTOPSY.

(I know, I know, I couldn't help myself........)

 

[query grind]

In looking over the cell phone logs I believe the 12:20 call from Filomena was answered and might have took place at Raffs. This would be consistent with the cell antenna used both at Raffs and contrasted with the different one that served all the calls at the cottage. It could be the call Amanda remembers as being Filomena asking her if she is yet at the apartment. It makes no sense for that to be the 12:12 call because this was several seconds after she just got off the phone with Filomena. I believe the short 12:12 call was possibly a busy signal that went to voicemail while Amanda was calling Meredith or went otherwise unnoticed while they were getting ready to leave Raffs.

Anyone with anything to add?

Interesting theory. Any idea why Raffaele gave his account on the 2nd of November that
a. Filomena was at her boyfriend's and
b. He instructed Knox to call Filomena at the cottage when he saw all the bloodstains - a version in repeats in his Italian memoir.

What I think you are dying to know - if I think Knox was talking to the postal police on Filomena's phone.....who did she call just after trying Meredith's one and only phone - the socalled English phone?

Well it is obvious isn't it? She was calling Rudy Guede.
Luca Altieri gave testimony about a yellow post-it note with phone numbers on it

Luca also testified that the cell phones were on the table but the next day he recanted and said he misremembered and that what was on the table was actually the phone numbers on a piece of paper not the phones themselves.

Filomena saw that and asked who it was. Knox said that's Guede's number...and for sure he didn't have anything to do with this murder. And Filomena replies with: say that was Meredith's Italian phone and I will get my "Monster of Florence/Narducci" lawyers to fix up the postal police side.

Then when Rudy Guede was arrested in Milan on the 4th or 5th of November (later moved back to the 27th of October), one of things the police had to do, besides sticking a kitchen knife and a laptop in his backpack, was take away his phone...the famous Meredith's Italian phone.

It is all very easy to work out once you understand the Italian mentality

 

[bagels]

Interesting theory. Any idea why Raffaele gave his account on the 2nd of November that
a. Filomena was at her boyfriend's and
b. He instructed Knox to call Filomena at the cottage when he saw all the bloodstains - a version in repeats in his Italian memoir.

TBH I barely trust Raffaele to remember his own name.

 

[query grind]

TBH I barely trust Raffaele to remember his own name.

Good point. He should try Knox's praying Nun method of memory recall. She swears by it.

 

[bagels]

The attack must have happened later. I can think of no other explanation. And neither can anyone else. The attack must start at ~21:30. The only alternative explanation is Rudy left and came back, or there was a second accomplice.

 

[Bill Williams]

Interesting theory. Any idea why Raffaele gave his account on the 2nd of November that
a. Filomena was at her boyfriend's and
b. He instructed Knox to call Filomena at the cottage when he saw all the bloodstains - a version in repeats in his Italian memoir.

What I think you are dying to know - if I think Knox was talking to the postal police on Filomena's phone.....who did she call just after trying Meredith's one and only phone - the socalled English phone?

Well it is obvious isn't it? She was calling Rudy Guede.
Luca Altieri gave testimony about a yellow post-it note with phone numbers on it

Filomena saw that and asked who it was. Knox said that's Guede's number...and for sure he didn't have anything to do with this murder. And Filomena replies with: say that was Meredith's Italian phone and I will get my "Monster of Florence/Narducci" lawyers to fix up the postal police side.

Then when Rudy Guede was arrested in Milan on the 4th or 5th of November (later moved back to the 27th of October), one of things the police had to do, besides sticking a kitchen knife and a laptop in his backpack, was take away his phone...the famous Meredith's Italian phone.

It is all very easy to work out once you understand the Italian mentality

Well, at least you are filling in the blanks of a crazy theory, rather than defaulting to, "Knox knows something she's not telling us."

But Knox called Guede? Bollocks. If that wer true it would be the missing link the prosecution could not demonstrate to this day. Suddenly you're asserting it with no citation? LOL!

And Rudy in Milan rather than Germany? And claims from Raffaele's Italian language book with no text?

If you're going to claim a trajectory different from any of the prosecutions or any of the courts, esp. the convicting ones, it'd be n8ce to see the proof rather than your opinion.

 

[query grind]

Well, at least you are filling in the blanks of a crazy theory, rather than defaulting to, "Knox knows something she's not telling us."

But Knox called Guede? Bollocks. If that wer true it would be the missing link the prosecution could not demonstrate to this day.

Ahh but they couldn't prove it without
a) Having Filomena in the house when the murder took place and
b) Owning up to massive police corruption

Suddenly you're asserting it with no citation?

Nonsense, I am citing myself

And Rudy in Milan rather than Germany?

Happily that isn't so difficult - thanks to the ubiquitous Richard Owens.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ect-arrested-after-facebook-trace-758889.html

Police traced him to Milan after he briefly switched on his mobile phone in the city. But the trail again went cold until Mr Guede logged on to his page on the Facebook social networking website, where he keeps a picture of himself with the fashion designer Giorgio Armani, and exchanged messages with correspondents, including journalists from the London Evening Standard and The Daily Telegraph.

In one message, Mr Guede, who also has a conviction for possession of a small amount of drugs, said he was aware he was being treated as a suspect and said he wanted to give himself up to clear his name. The newspapers passed on the information to Italian police but officers were also monitoring the account and traced the computer

and
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html

Investigators say Mr Guede left Perugia on the morning after the murder and went to Milan, where he was stopped by police but not detained. Detectives locked on to his mobile phone signal in Milan as recently as this weekend, but it then went dead. Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher's body.

Italian newspaper articles which that report was drawing on say they found cocaine on him.

And claims from Raffaele's Italian language book with no text?

An Italian excerpt was published in an Italian newspaper last year - it contained the same version that appeared in his 2 November statement.

You're welcome.

 

[bagels]

The tabloids seemed to just make stuff up. It's actually weird.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen - one of these days you're going to sit bolt upright when it occurs to you that it is ludicrous to make factoid laden claims, then claim it's up to the other guy to prove you wrong.

Seems we're a ways from that eureka moment right now.

Bill, the claim of the PIP is that as Mez had eaten by circa 17:00, the contents of her meal should have moved into her duedenom within two hours. We are told to take it for granted her complete meal was still sitting in her stomach completely, or almost completely, undigested during the autopsy and therefore she must have been dead by at the latest 21:30.

However, Lalli and the other pathologist experts did not come to that conclusion. Lalli gave a time frame of any time up to 04:00 for time of death 2nd November, and calculated a median time of circa 10:30 IIRC and Massei determined that based on eye witness and other evidence, time of death was circa 23:00.

Your group claims it was 21:00-21:30 because you have a belief this exonerates Raff and Amanda, whom you claim have an alibi for that time, in that they were watching a "sweet romantic comedy" 'Amélie'. This is poor reasoning, as having the film running doesn't prove they were there watching it. In addition, there are multiple other factors that determine TOD, for example, floor temperature, heating, fabric coverings and underlays, wind factor, body weight, etc, etc.

It is a sad act of legerdemain to pretend it is proven the TOD is 21:00 to 21:30, when that is far from true.

You are the king of factoid.

 

[Vixen]

That was where the phones were found. Pellero determined that across the road in the park that there was a strong signal from the Wind cell antenna. Guess that's irrelevant ?



Here are tidbits from Dr. Pellero's testimony

"99 times out of a 100 the cell repeater 30064 would have been chosen as the repeater serving the points measured in Sant’Angelo Park, there exists a residual possibility in Meredith’s house that could be one, two or three per cent."
Question: It’s not possible to objectively say that the cell repeater 30064 is incompatible with via della Pergola, on the basis of these calculations which take into account the C2 factor, one can say that it is more likely that it was in Sant’Angelo Park, as a probability it’s about 99%?
Answer: Look the probability can be measured in these terms and what I can tell you is that at Sant’Angelo Park, the difference with the next nearest cell repeater is considerable, really considerable, so it would have used this repeater and wouldn’t have searched for another. This also because obviously I have taken into account the results of the measurements that were obtained by the Procura and this certainly permits me to exclude that the repeater 30064 was incompatible with via Sperandio, which emerged from the other side.
The best server cell towers at the cottage (Via Pergola 7) were Piazza Lupatelli GSM11107 and UMTS55201.

The best cell tower for Sant’Angelo Park where the stolen phones were recovered was wind cell 30064. It handled 99% of calls from Sant’Angelo Park and only handled 2 – 3% of calls from Via Pergola 7.

The tower which handled the 10:13 pm MMS message on the stolen phone was wind cell 30064.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/merediths-cell-phone-helps-pinpoint-time-of-death/

Ever since I learned that in Italy, defense experts are allowed to blatantly lie with impunity (cf Vinci; Vecchiotti & Conti) I am extremely wary of accepting anything the defense experts say as factual.

The figure of 99% was simply plucked out of the air and Pellero corrects the barrister by stating the margin is more like 3%. These are all heuristic estimates, not based on any actual data analysis. In any case, persons were heard running off at about 22:30, leaving Rudy alone in the cottage applying tourniquets (three blood soaked towels were found, as he stated).

Therefore Massei was correct to adduce the two phones were still at the cottage 22:13 as of the time the call came through and was aborted by human hand.

 

[Vixen]

Vodaphone Employee – Luca Fioravant
Question – You researched and reported on the transmitting stations that serve Via Della Pergola, which is the home where the crime took place?
Answer – Yes, when they made this request we reffered the request to our engineering department of radio frequency which by using an algorithm that we use in order to design the network, inserted this information from which it appeared that the network cell with a higher level, the so called best server cell was the one located at Piazza Lupatelli, however Via Della Pergola is also within….
Question – Are we speaking of the Vodaphone cell?
Answer – Yes, Vodaphone, exactly. While, lets say, Via Della Pergola is also served by other cells that are at Piazza Forte Braccio, Via Dell Aquila number 5 and Via Berardi and this a client that is at Via Della Pergola had the possibility of connecting to one of these cells.
Vodaphone Employee – Sonia Cieri,
Question – So to be clear, if I don’t get the best server because there is a crane or obstacle, I will get the closest cell station that is in a city and within the cloest hundreds of meters, is this a correct analysis?
Answer – You will connect to one of the closet cells.
Question – One of the cells, perfect. Then which of the GSM cells of Via Lupatelli covers Della Pergola and which covers Via Garibaldi, always referring to the “best server”?the best cell serves the cell of Piazza Lupatelli GSM, that which we call 11107 and UMTS55201, this is the best cell, but…
Question – For who so that we are clear?
Answer – It is the best server for the address of Via Pergola 7, but the sufficient level in order to allow conversations for that address is offered from all six of the cells of Piazza Lupatelli and also from the two cells at Piazza Forte Braccio, of the six cells of Via Dell Acquila and from the station at via Berardi, this….

**At no time does he mention repeater 30064

Because the defense counsel was careful not to ask him and quickly shut him up as he was about to expand, (as above).

 

[acbytesla]

Ahh but they couldn't prove it without
a) Having Filomena in the house when the murder took place and
b) Owning up to massive police corruption

Nonsense, I am citing myself


Happily that isn't so difficult - thanks to the ubiquitous Richard Owens.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ect-arrested-after-facebook-trace-758889.html

and
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html

Italian newspaper articles which that report was drawing on say they found cocaine on him.



An Italian excerpt was published in an Italian newspaper last year - it contained the same version that appeared in his 2 November statement.

You're welcome.

Wow! I thought Vixen posted some whoppers but thus one is the biggest pile of bull turds ever! Every single call made to and from Amanda between October 1st and November November 6th when she was arrested was identified and accounted for and Rudy wasn't among them.

I love how some members of the guilt crowd believe that media reports are a substitute for evidence presented in the courtroom.

I'd say nice try query...but I find this to be disgusting.