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Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Grinder said:
There was no non sequitur by me - you always.

The discussion was whether or not Mignini characterized the crime as a satanic rite and early on. You've pushed this in the past and usually end it with non sequitur or some other dismissive gesture.

No one doubts that Preston went after Mignini over the MOF story/case, but that doesn't mean Mignini believed the same about the Kercher murder.

I and others here have stated we can't find evidence of him using satanic or rite early on. I can't find it and you can't either.

If the idiot Barbie used the meme, who cares? Preston hated Mignini for good reason, it would seem. The MOF case was completely different and it doesn't seem a stretch at all to consider something like satanism in that case.

For the life of me I don't get why you bringing positions from people you disdain as points of fact. Massei, Vogt, Barbie, Nencini and Follain come to mind. Just because they are in the PG camp but say something that supports some point of yours doesn't give it credibility.
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You obviously missed the spin Machiavelli put on Mignini's use of the Italian word "riti" in his early stuff. Machiavelli argued that it related to something that is done habitually, but was far from anything "ritualistic".

It is no matter. You are now "spreading out" your dispute with me.... it's hard to know where to begin. We tend to cycle back anyway, and I'm sure we'll do it again and again until one of us gets really bored.

One last time. You said that the Satanic angle was something pushed by the early-FOA. You then said that Preston's use of the term in the MOF case with Mignini was.... I am not going to look it up, you know what you said, but it was to dismiss that Preston was corroborating the early-FOA.

Then an opponent of the FOA says the same thing - Nadeau. You state above you have no idea what that has to do with anything and dismiss it. Then Mignini himself shows up at a Satanism and the Law thing and is asked to speak..... for heaven's sake, even Vixen sees nothing wrong with its use in this case!! Hoots!

Oh never mind.
 
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Vixen said:
I don't really get why you think Mignini should not consider an evil motive for the crime.
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Of course it was an evil motive, Vixen. Rudy stabbed Meredith in the throat and raped her.

What I actually think, is that Mignini should not have brought forth a hypothesis involving 3 perps when only one of the three (who was a known burglar and admitted he was there) had evidence of himself everywhere at the crime scene. Particularly when Rudy didn't know Amanda and Raf. Perhaps Mig should have only brought charges against the one that he had evidence for?

Speaking of strawmen though (you like that term!). How did you translate that (my actual argument) to: "I don't get why you think Mignini should not consider an evil motive for the crime". Is it possible for you to respond to an argument without distorting it?
 
Vixen said:
You cannot think of one nice thing about the pair.
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He doesn't know Amanda nor Raffaele. Neither do you. Why are you allowed to slander people you don't know with made up facts about either one being a sociopath with no friends, yet you demand evidence when tesla refutes that with facts that Amanda has plenty of friends?
 
Vixen said:
There are one or two criticisms I could make, but overall, no judge is going to please everybody 100%. Massei handled it with tact and wisdom. He may have been timid, but on balance, a wise old goat.
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Cute avatar.

Massei could only use Curatolo if he could move the time the kids allegedly left the plaza to no latter than 11:30. He was wrong to change testimony no matter what but changing it based on a false assumption is pathetic.

Imagine Hellmann would have moved Popovic visit to 9:45 because of some fallacious assumption, you would be all over it, even though he is one most highly regarded jurists in Italy. That's why he was in charge of the case that undid an ISC ruling in another case.
 
Vixen said:
This is yet another one of the myths you PIP love to tell yourselves. The stuff the defense were demanding be disclosed went far beyond the reasonable or conventional. It's the old tactic of asking for more and more pedantic material. It's no surprise the judge threw out the application. It was just a time-wasting, bullying and unreasonable demand, which would never end, even to the extent of wanting to see the content of all the lab's rubbish bins, and then a trip to the landfill to dig out shredded paper. Enough already!
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Utter rot.

Ignorance or lies?

I have been an expert witness on more occasions than I care to remember and every single time I was required to present my raw data files for opposing counsel to examine.

Simarlarly all raw data files were always made available to me by the opposing expert witnesses.

Almost without fail, common ground between expert witnesses was found after full disclosure. That is not to say full agreement was reached but differences of opinion were narrowed down.

To suggest that the defence be precluded information in a murder trial is idiotic in the extreme.

Drivel!
 
Bill Williams said:
You obviously missed the spin Machiavelli put on Mignini's use of the Italian word "riti" in his early stuff. Machiavelli argued that it related to something that is done habitually, but was far from anything "ritualistic".

It is no matter. You are now "spreading out" your dispute with me.... it's hard to know where to begin. We tend to cycle back anyway, and I'm sure we'll do it again and again until one of us gets really bored.

One last time. You said that the Satanic angle was something pushed by the early-FOA. You then said that Preston's use of the term in the MOF case with Mignini was.... I am not going to look it up, you know what you said, but it was to dismiss that Preston was corroborating the early-FOA.

Then an opponent of the FOA says the same thing - Nadeau. You state above you have no idea what that has to do with anything and dismiss it. Then Mignini himself shows up at a Satanism and the Law thing and is asked to speak..... for heaven's sake, even Vixen sees nothing wrong with its use in this case!! Hoots!

Oh never mind.
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Nadeau an opponent of the FOA? Funny. Nadeau is an airhead. I don't really put anything into her opinions.

I don't care about Mach. If you had a cite to prove your point, we would have seen it years ago.

MOF involved killings over a period of year with body parts being removed. Mignini or others believe it could have a relationship to satanism doesn't seem strange to me. Preston hated Mignini and used the case as a platform and I don't blame him.

If you have anything from a court document or the media from the beginning please provide, otherwise just admit he didn't use the terms you are accusing him of.
 
Vixen said:
That's arrant nonsense. Italy has a very strong link to North America (why, they even introduced the mafia :D). When I visited Canada, the tour guide told us Italians made up one of the biggest ethnic groups after Asians (in N America, Asian means Chinese), with over 450K in Toronto alone.

It is rubbish to accuse the cops of racism against Americans. Sure individual cops can be, but police have nothing to gain from not pursuing the correct perps. What would be the point on picking on an American - out of about 12K in Perugia alone IIRC - on a scale of one to stupid, that would be STUPID.
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Italian is not a race. Nor is American. Wake up!
 
Vixen said:
How do you know 'Amanda's friends are fiercely loyal'? I sense this is just a soundbite you just made up. I suspect you are talking about friends of Curt, Chris and Edda. Are you SURE you're not getting paid for spin?
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I'd say her friend Madison Paxton moving to Italy would qualify.
 
Grinder said:
Nadeau an opponent of the FOA? Funny. Nadeau is an airhead. I don't really put anything into her opinions.

I don't care about Mach. If you had a cite to prove your point, we would have seen it years ago.

MOF involved killings over a period of year with body parts being removed. Mignini or others believe it could have a relationship to satanism doesn't seem strange to me. Preston hated Mignini and used the case as a platform and I don't blame him.

If you have anything from a court document or the media from the beginning please provide, otherwise just admit he didn't use the terms you are accusing him of.
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The term Satanic-rite is a good shorthand for the Celtic-pagan rite you yourself quoted above. My view is that to get stuck on that term is to pick gnat-pooh out of pepper. Aside from that my intent is not to prove anything, esp. at this point. You may be the only person in the universe who'd insist on a tape tecording, otherwise you'd insert "airhead" or "hatred" or "I don't care about Mach" as a reason to discount their own admissions that "riti" was in the air as a motive - one of many - Mignini presented.

So let me put you down as unconvinced. For pete's sake, even Mach admitted Mig was once that ballpark.

But for anyone interested in how this case went so off the rails, this has been a good trip down memory lane.
 
Vixen said:
That's one.
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One says it all. Or is there a Vixen magic number handbook. Normal people often have very few close friends.

My wife often says I have no enemies but am intensely disliked by my friends (with a nod towards that genius, Oscar Wilde.)

Maybe I am the sociopath.
 
Bill Williams said:
The term Satanic-rite is a good shorthand for the Celtic-pagan rite you yourself quoted above. My view is that to get stuck on that term is to pick gnat-pooh out of pepper. Aside from that my intent is not to prove anything, esp. at this point. You may be the only person in the universe who'd insist on a tape tecording, otherwise you'd insert "airhead" or "hatred" or "I don't care about Mach" as a reason to discount their own admissions that "riti" was in the air as a motive - one of many - Mignini presented.

So let me put you down as unconvinced. For pete's sake, even Mach admitted Mig was once that ballpark.

But for anyone interested in how this case went so off the rails, this has been a good trip down memory lane.
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Do you have a cite? Do you have Mignini earl on saying something about a Celtic-pagan rite.
 
Samzilla said:
I'd say her friend Madison Paxton moving to Italy would qualify.
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Vixen cannot find anyone in Seattle who knows Amanda who has bad things to say about her. Here, where she has lived for 25 years. No classmates or teachers from Seattle Prep or the UW. No one. Instead, she relies on her intuition, rumor and what a few British girls whom she had barely met.

When Judge Heavey got involved, it was because his daughters who attended school with Amanda told him that Amanda was about the nicest person they knew. Madison sets aside school and moves to Italy to live in a tiny apartment and visited Amanda every day so she would know that she was not alone. Classmates and friends donated thousands of hours and thousands of dollars to help Amanda and the family.

I could only hope to have friends such as these.
 
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