• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.

Justinian2

Banned
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
2,804
Continued from here (which was a continuation from here), with the last page of posts transferred over to the new thread.

All the many warnings made in that thread still apply. Please - everyone - ensure that your posts remain civil, on topic, and in accordance with the terms of your Membership Agreement.
Posted By: Darat



Greetings Mary H, and others,
I had to give this 3 + 1 story some thought before I decided to even post it,

[...]

Don't many victims know the rapist?
Hmmm, I wonder...

Great eye-witness testimony RWVBWL. However, I don't think it will help convince the pro guilt people. Scary thing is, I don't know if anything will...

The belief of the assassins is that if you kill the leader, the rest will fall. If you shoot the beast in the head, the body will die.

Replace the judge and some key pieces of evidence and - who knows - the beast may die and Amanda & Raffaele will be free.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great eye-witness testimony RWVBWL. However, I don't think it will help convince the pro guilt people. Scary thing is, I don't know if anything will...

The belief of the assassins is that if you kill the leader, the rest will fall. If you shoot the beast in the head, the body will die.

Replace the judge and some key pieces of evidence and - who knows - the beast may die and Amanda & Raffaele will be free.
Hi Justinian2, and others,
As you wrote above, I agree,
maybe, just maybe it will happen...

On another note, LMT has posted an interesting couple of new stories.
Definately worth a read 1st and then watching that YouTube video. It then becomes very scary...

http://alternatetheories-perugiamurder.blogspot.com/

Thank you Some Alibi, for your work too on this case we discuss. Though I might not agree with your belief in guilt, I now do respect your work effort!
Peace everyone:)
RWVBWL
 
<snip>PSS-Guys sometimes talk of their conquests, for I hear it a lot from the bro's.
Some guys I know are pretty legendary around my neck of the woods.
With that in mind, I wonder if Rudy knew of this too? Maybe he heard Giacomo tell of this recent conquest, and he went over there with the intent to rape instead of rob. Maybe that's why he did not take much. For all anyone knows, Rudy could have had a nylon stocking mask on which covered his face when he entered the gals apartment that night, with the intent to commit a rape. Don't many victims know the rapist?
Hmmm, I wonder...


WOW. That is actually possible.
 
Great video Justinian!


Did you see that guy also made a song video? Of course, Harry Rag is right there with his comments, as if anyone cares:

"Amanda Knox's interrogation was stopped at 1.45am when she became a suspect. She wasn't questioned again that evening. The following day she voluntarily admitted that she was involved in Meredith's murder. She even asked for a pen and paper to write this confession."


Harry doesn't seem to realize we have disproven that false claim here. His list of reasons Amanda is guilty gets shorter and shorter every day.
 
Pacelli's interrogation of Amanda about Rudy

Regarding Pacelli's examination of Amanda: I was able to find (thanks to PaulTC at IIP) another copy of the video. Here, for the record, is my transcription and translation of the relevant portion, which begins at 1:13 and ends at 4:23:

CP: Lei conosce Rudy Hermann Guede?

CP: Do you know Rudy Hermann Guede?

AK: Poco.

AK: [Only] a bit. [Note: "only" arguably implied by use of "poco" rather than "un poco".]

CP: Dove l'ha conosciuto? In quali circonstanze?

CP: Where did you meet him? In what circumstances?

AK: I was in the center, near the church. It was during an evening where I met the guys that lived in the apartment underneath us. And, while I was mingling with them, they introduced me to Rudy.

CP: Dunque, in occasione di un party, a casa dei vicini di sotto?

CP: So, on the occasion of a party, at the house of the neighbors below?

AK: Yes. What we did is they introduced me to him downtown to say "this is Rudy, this is Amanda", and then I spent most of my time with Meredith but we all went back to the house together.

CP: E' a casa loro che l'ha conosciuto; non l'aveva visto anche al pub Le Chic, Rudy?

CP: So it was at their house that you met him; you hadn't also seen Rudy at the Le Chic pub?

AK: I think I saw him there once.

CP: Senta: questo party dei vicini, della seconda metà di ottobre -- che periodo, fine ottobre? (di 1997 [!])

CP: Okay: this party at the neighbors', of the second half of October -- what period, the end of October?

AK: I think it was more in the middle of October.

[at this point Massei interrupts to complain about both Amanda and her translator speaking at the same time]

CP: Nell'occasione di questo party, signorina, fumaste hashish?

CP: On the occasion of this party, Ms. Knox, did you [plural, referring to the whole group!] smoke hashish?

AK: There was a spinello that was smoked, yes.

CP: Lei, all'epoca dei fatti, ottobre 97, faceva uso di sostanze stupefacenti? 2007 -- chiedo, mi scusi -- faceva uso di sostanze stupefacenti?

CP: During the period in question, October '97 [sic], did you [singular] use [imperfect tense, meaning "habitually use"] mind-altering substances? 2007 -- sorry -- did you [habitually] use mind-altering substances?

AK: Every once in a while with friends.

CP: Che sostanze [can't make out next word, sounds like "absurva"]?

CP: Which substances [...?]?

AK: Marijuana.


Summary: Rudy and Amanda were not particularly well acquainted, but they met once at a party where there was hashish, and Amanda may have seen Rudy once at Le Chic.
 
Charlie, thanks for the spheron images.

The whole story about the feces in the large bathroom and why she didn't flush makes more sense to me now. She didn't dry her hair in the bathroom itself but in the ante-room to the bathroom where there is a large vanity, sink and mirror, with the washer tucked under the counter. There is even a hairbrush on the counter.

She may have noticed the smell at some point after drying her hair, entered the bathroom itself, briefly glanced in the toilet and left. The toilet is quite far into the bathroom itself and unless you are standing close to it, perhaps you will not see the contents, accounting for her visually missing it the second time.

This was one of her strange behaviors for me, but I see now how it could have happened.

Do you always go through such contortions when trying to figure out simple, straightforward events?
 
I see. The number of reps that exist. IDK if there are more - this could be it. We'll have to ask Charlie.

There are many more. I have not included the samples taken from Meredith's body in the summary. Nor have I included many of the samples from Raffaele's apt., samples from Raffaele's car, samples from Guede's apt., samples from the downstairs apt., samples from the kitchen of the cottage, and a few others. These results were not relevant to the prosecution's case or to the defense rebuttals.

Earlier in this discussion, however, I noted that a number of samples revealed unidentified DNA. The police should have gotten reference DNA samples from everyone who lived at or frequented the cottage, just as they did collect reference fingerprints, so they could be sure the unidentified DNA belonged to those people and not another suspect. This basic oversight shows they were only interested in evidence that would support their claims with regard to Amanda and Raffaele. The unidentified donors are as follows:

Male #1, rep. 11, (non-blood) tissue paper found in front of lower apartment entrance

Female #1, rep. 17, (blood) tissue paper found on path from street to cottage

Male #3, rep. 18, (blood) tissue paper found on street

Female #2, rep. 19, (blood) tissue paper found on street; rep. 20, (blood) tissue paper found on street

Male #4, rep. 32, (non-blood) boxer shorts from Sollecito's apt.

Male #5, rep. 47, (non-blood) stained white rag from Sollecito's apt.

Male #6, rep. 101, (non-blood), stain revealed with luminol on kitchen mat from Sollecito's apt.

Male #7, rep. 142, saliva, cigarette butt from kitchen ashtray at cottage; rep. 143, saliva, cigarette butt from kitchen ashtray at cottage; rep. 144, saliva, cigarette butt from kitchen ashtray at cottage

Male #8, rep. 227, (non-blood) tee shirt taken from Sollecito

Notice there is no Male #2. I don't know if they accidentally skipped a number, or if there were other tests besides the ones for which I have the results. In general, the numbering of samples and organizing of results is erratic and inconsistent, and it spans a number of documents that came to me as e-fax TIF files, very poor quality.
 
Thanks for the link Justinian2!
That was a nice video to watch.
I believe the only way that Raffaele and Amanda might see freedom is if people speak up,
as many, many, many have been doing lately!
Take it easy,
RWVBWL

Yep...

“We’ve GOT to make noises in greater amounts!
So, open your mouth, lad! For every voice counts!


- Dr. Seuss, Horton Hears a Who
 
Do you always go through such contortions when trying to figure out simple, straightforward events?

How about this straightforward event...

Man with criminal past breaks into a cottage and murders someone while in the midst of a robbery....then flees the country. There's been lots of contortions trying to figure out this simple one.
 
How about this straightforward event...

Man with criminal past breaks into a cottage and murders someone while in the midst of a robbery....then flees the country. There's been lots of contortions trying to figure out this simple one.

And sexually assaults her. And kills her with two knives. And has a crap without flushing. And fakes a break in. And causes multiple bruises and cuts. And......And.....

Sorry, the lone wolf killer doesn't cut it.
 
Well Treehorn, I think it's time to round up a few disparate threads and bring them all together.

Firstly the issue of whether or not (in your words) "Amanda and Rudy smoked dope together several times". I think we've been over the relevant part of Amanda's cross-examination and the relevant parts of the Massei report often enough now to see that there was never any factual basis for this claim whatsoever. There is in fact no evidence that Amanda and Rudy ever used drugs together. Do you now acknowledge this?

Secondly, you seemed to think that it was a huge problem both for myself personally and for the pro-innocence argument as a whole that you thought I had got the number of times Amanda and Rudy had met wrong. It turned out, of course, that I was perfectly correct (Amanda was at one party where Rudy was present, and spoke to him at that party according to one of Rudy's friends, and Amanda saw Rudy present at her place of work on one occasion. That's it).

Is this error on your part as devastating for the pro-guilt case and yourself personally, as the error you thought I had made was supposed to be for me personally? Or are there two sets of rules here, where you get to declare victory if you get one fact right that I get wrong, but you are allowed to make wildly mistaken claims and defend them with misleading citations and then skate away from it?

This error about Amanda's drug use led us on to the cross-examination technique issue. So thirdly Treehorn, do you accept that the cross-examination that so confused yourself and TomM43, which you two thought was Carlo Pacelli being outmanoeuvred by Knox, was in fact Carlo Pacelli carefully framing his questions to get the incriminating facts he wanted into court without asking Knox directly if she ever shared drugs with Rudy Guede, or used drugs at the one party where she and Rudy Guede were present?

(There's a curious symmetry here... earlier you seemed to think that the maxim that one should never ask a question that you did not know the answer to was a rule for discussion in general, not a specific rule for risk-averse cross-examination. Then when you came across an example of a lawyer doing exactly this, it slipped past you completely and you and TomM43 thought Amanda was outwitting Pacelli and the court).

Moving swiftly on from the question of how two people who say they are lawyers have no idea how cross-examination actually works, almost like two bad students cribbing from each other in an exam, I think what well want to know is:

Do you have a coherent theory of the crime?

What do you think the most compelling pieces of evidence against Knox and Sollecito are? How strongly does each influence your final view of the likelihood of their guilt? Can you give us a (not necessarily unique) set of incriminating evidence sufficient to get you personally to >50% belief in their guilt?
Your post is a prime example of why teachers don't let their pupils grade their own papers.

Bye!
 
Last edited:
And sexually assaults her.

Yes, don't see a problem with that scenario

And kills her with two knives.

Not demonstrated.

And has a crap without flushing.

Well, I can see how an extra person would be necessary for this to happen. Oh wait, no I can't.

And fakes a break in.

Not demonstrated.

And causes multiple bruises and cuts.

Yes, seems feasible also.

And......And.....

That all you got?

Sorry, the lone wolf killer doesn't cut it.

Seems like it does! :D
 
Yes, don't see a problem with that scenario



Not demonstrated.



Well, I can see how an extra person would be necessary for this to happen. Oh wait, no I can't.



Not demonstrated.




Yes, seems feasible also.



That all you got?


Seems like it does! :D

So you believe Rudy did it alone?
 
Yes, don't see a problem with that scenario



Not demonstrated.



Well, I can see how an extra person would be necessary for this to happen. Oh wait, no I can't.



Not demonstrated.



Yes, seems feasible also.



That all you got?



Seems like it does! :D

Lone wolves always leave only one bruise and one cut Matthew....
 
How about this straightforward event...

Man with criminal past breaks into a cottage and murders someone while in the midst of a robbery....then flees the country. There's been lots of contortions trying to figure out this simple one.

You forget there was evidence attesting to more than one murderer; plus the DNA of your darlings was found; plus they were caught flat out lying and contradicting themselves.

Not so simple after all.
 
BTW my comments were directed at samba who makes no mention of the details of the assault on Meredith.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom