Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

The prosecution had nothing to do with the press conference.

This is a point of context that seems something still to hard for the pro-Knoxes to understand. The Questura is government, the Prosecution (Procura) is Judiciary. Two independent powers.

Moreover, the police actually said very little in the press conference (not what the pro-Knoxes claim), even declared their evidence was still volatile and changing; and in fact few days later they didn't have any problem changing their theories publicly.
The press conference was nothing but political routine by a political power who needed to calm media attention and population fears in a specific moment, since in that moment it was startling their witnesses and didn't allow them to work properly.

Indeed, this dynamic was cited by the Marasca/Bruno motivations report as one of the driving forces behind the wrongful prosecution of Knox and Sollecito.

 

[Machiavelli]

Just to bump this up, because apparently Machiavelli missed it.

I wonder if Machiavelli's latest theory will be how much control the Masons exercise over the Italian press?

I didn't read even one news report, have no clue what media say (and I'm not interested). I just read the report. I noticed comments by Italians on social networks.

 

[KatieG]

I beg to differ. The crime was not unbelievable. It was actually mundane. The police solved the crime rather quickly. What was unbelievable was how they all screwed it up.

I think the motivation confirmed my position and that was the biggest mistake was the press conference. It put the police and prosecutors in the position of ignoring the salient evidence to save face in view of the International spotlight.

I'll accept that, thanks

 

[Machiavelli]

Indeed, this dynamic was cited by the Marasca/Bruno motivations report as one of the driving forces behind the wrongful prosecution of Knox and Sollecito.

The Marasca/Bruno report is barmy and nonsensical; it's an inconsistent childish joke. It's even openly self-contradictory. Contains delusional legal reasoning and makes up false facts: it's pharcical, surreal.

About the specific "dynamic" cited as for the alleged "effect" of a press conference by the Questura, it just makes no sense. It's defence rhetoric, nothing more. There is no link with reality, and it's inconsistent.
The prosecution had nothing to do with the police or government press conference. The police were actually political and vague, they only needed limelight to be off in that moment to work properly, that's obvious.

 

[Puppycow]

Hi,

I'm not a regular participant in this thread but I just came across this in my newsfeed:

'Stunning Weakness,' 'Glaring Errors' Cited in Amanda Knox Acquittal

Italy's top criminal court said Monday that it threw out the murder convictions of American student Amanda Knox and her former Italian boyfriend earlier this year because of "glaring errors" and a hit-and-miss hunt for a scapegoat to satisfy public opinion.

The stunning ruling in March — which wasn't explained until Monday's filing was published — marked one more twist in a years-long saga that boomeranged through the Italian criminal justice system, captivated two countries and left Knox and her ex-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, to serve four years in jail.

. . .

The latest decision, from the Court of Cassation, Italy's equivalent of the Supreme Court, slammed police and prosecutors for "stunning weakness" and "investigative bouts of amnesia."

Because no biological evidence from Knox or Sollecito was found at the house in Perugia where Kercher was murdered, the 52-page opinion said, their "participation" in the killing should have been "excluded."

"There was no shortage of glaring errors in the underlying fabric of the sentence in question," the court wrote.

The third person accused in the murder, Ivory Coast-born Rudy Guede, who is serving a 16-year sentence after opting for a fast-track trial, left "copious" biological traces at the scene, the court said.

Avid media attention and the nationalities of the people involved led to "a spasmodic search for one or more guilty parties to offer up to international public opinion," the court concluded, which "certainly did not aid the search for the truth."

Further prosecution is barred under Italian law.

In a statement posted on her website Monday afternoon, Knox said that she was "grateful" that the court "forcefully declared my innocence."

"This has been a long struggle for me, my family, my friends, and my supporters. While I am glad it is now over, I will remain forever grateful to the many individuals who gave their time and talents to help me," she wrote.

"Today would not have been possible without your unwavering support. I will now begin the rest of my life with one of my goals being to help others who have been wrongfully accused."

Sollecito told the Italian news agency ANSA: "It is clear, it is definite, that I was the victim of a gross miscarriage of justice that will remain in history."

Sollecito's attorneys have said they are working on a claim for wrongful imprisonment.

Luca Maori, one of his attorneys, called Monday's explanation "no-nonsense" and "clear."

"All of our arguments have been accepted," Maori told ANSA. "In a few no-nonsense pages, the Supreme Court has clarified the whole affair: For Sollecito and Knox, there are no clues or evidence."

And to think -- she was convicted all because of a cartwheel.

 

[Bill Williams]

The Marasca/Bruno report is barmy and nonsensical; it's an inconsistent childish joke. It's even openly self-contradictory. Contains delusional legal reasoning and makes up false facts: it's pharcical, surreal.

About the specific "dynamic" cited as for the alleged "effect" of a press conference by the Questura, it just makes no sense. It's defence rhetoric, nothing more. There is no link with reality, and it's inconsistent.
The prosecution had nothing to do with the police or government press conference. The police were actually political and vague, they only needed limelight to be off in that moment to work properly, that's obvious.

Sure, Machiavelli, sure.

I get why you are not reading news reports. It fits with the intellectual bunker mentality.

Do you think that Mr. Mignini is reading the press reports from today? It sucks to be him.

 

[Machiavelli]

Hi,

I'm not a regular participant in this thread but I just came across this in my newsfeed:

(...)

But there may be one mistake at the background: that is to assume that the Supreme Court is credible as for making "fact finding".
But in fact the Cassazione 5th section wrote a list of attacks against "investigation" which is just a series of rhetoric slogans (which is in fact the series of defensive and media slogans), against witnesses etc. While Cassazione has no power nor means to do assessments of facts in the merit: they are not in a position to say whether Quintavalle is reliable for example, or if it was a good or bad idea to calculate time of death. It's surreal for the SC to put on themselves judgements on things they didn't deal with.
I'm not sure people here really grasp how barmy and absurd this SC motivation report is. I don't think they even grasp the eregious contradictions.

 

[acbytesla]

The prosecution had nothing to do with the press conference.

This is a point of context that seems something still to hard for the pro-Knoxes to understand. The Questura is government, the Prosecution (Procura) is Judiciary. Two independent powers.

Moreover, the police actually said very little in the press conference (not what the pro-Knoxes claim), even declared their evidence was still volatile and changing; and in fact few days later they didn't have any problem changing their theories publicly.
The press conference was nothing but political routine by a political power who needed to calm media attention and population fears in a specific moment, since in that moment it was startling their witnesses and didn't allow them to work properly.

While you are right that the press conference was political you are dead wrong about the rest of it. This was the investigators taking a bow. "Case closed, we got em" Covered throughout the world as headline news. The last thing Italy wanted was another headline saying "Oooops, we're morons".

 

[Machiavelli]

Sure, Machiavelli, sure.

I get why you are not reading news reports. It fits with the intellectual bunker mentality.

Do you think that Mr. Mignini is reading the press reports from today? It sucks to be him.

I think it sucks to be Bruno or Marasca, actually.

I was talking about something else in my post anyway.

 

[acbytesla]

The Marasca/Bruno report is barmy and nonsensical; it's an inconsistent childish joke. It's even openly self-contradictory. Contains delusional legal reasoning and makes up false facts: it's pharcical, surreal.

About the specific "dynamic" cited as for the alleged "effect" of a press conference by the Questura, it just makes no sense. It's defence rhetoric, nothing more. There is no link with reality, and it's inconsistent.
The prosecution had nothing to do with the police or government press conference. The police were actually political and vague, they only needed limelight to be off in that moment to work properly, that's obvious.

Keep saying that Machiavelli. You're proving that denial is more than a river in Africa.

 

[Puppycow]

Interesting to go back to the original thread and see how many so-called skeptics were just certain she was guilty:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161229

And the prosecutors, police, jury and judge all say she's guilty.

Fancy that. To think that you might*** be wrong.


***Are

But didn't you read? Skeptigirl heard a reporter say that she's innocent! Good enough for me!

And the whole thing was based on a cartwheel. Well, that and motive, opportunity, DNA evidence, faking a burglary and falsely accusing an innocent man.

She is guilty as can be....there won't be anything overturned. She will spend the next 20+ years in jail.

Sounds to me like you have some kind of chip on your shoulder or something.....not that it matters anyway, she is going to prison. End of story.

I've followed this case in local papers and over the web. "Innocent victim of unfair, corrupt foreign legal system" just doesn't wash.

Et cetera.

 

[Machiavelli]

While you are right that the press conference was political you are dead wrong about the rest of it. This was the investigators taking a bow. "Case closed, we got em" Covered throughout the world as headline news. The last thing Italy wanted was another headline saying "Oooops, we're morons".

But this is you making up your own world as usual. In fact "the investigators" is not an institution in Italy (not even "Italy" is an institution). The press conference was by the Questura, which meant Ministry of Interiors (approval of Giuliano Amato at the time).
The Procura is Judiciary, nothing to do with the press conference.

The prosecution did not take any bow from the public, nor made any declaration at all.
The prosecution did not have their credibility affected in the slightest by De Felice press conference. Had nothing to do with it. The prosecution refrained from any comment in the public, and never made political conferences. I know Italy slighlty better than you, and I can state this adamantly.

You also appear to be ignorant about what the police actually said to the press.

 

[bagels]

Interesting to go back to the original thread and see how many so-called skeptics were just certain she was guilty:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161229




Et cetera.

Well nobody's perfect. But I thought it was interesting how a poster brought up very reasonable points that should have caught the attention of anyone trying to make a case for Knox's guilt from a skeptical point of view, but they were promptly ignored and left to the wayside while the argument about cartwheels and whatnot continued. Here's the post in question:

I was unaware that there was any DNA evidence found in the room. In fact, I had heard that there was no physical evidence whatsoever linking Knox to the bedroom where the murder occurred.

I still want to know what her motive was supposed to have been, and how Rudy Guede fits into a coherent narrative that has Knox also participating in the killing.

Her behavior seems very bizarre and aloof, but that does not constitute physical evidence of guilt. And if her false accusation was coerced while she was in police custody, then I wouldn't see it as especially damning either. In any case, a false accusation is not physical evidence anyway. There should still be SOME of that.

 

[Machiavelli]

Keep saying that Machiavelli. You're proving that denial is more than a river in Africa.

The prosecution had nothing to do with the police or any government press conference. There is no link between the two things in the eyes of Italians.
I can easilly show that the "amandaknoxcase" site narrative by the pro-Knox activists, when they talk about the Questura press conference, is just a series of nonsensical lies. (through which they try to rationalize their belief and justify a conspiracy theory).
Police conspiracies obviously exist (Italy included), but to say that the Questura press conference in Perugia was a blow to the prosecution's credibility is simply idiotic, unrelated to reality.

 

[Bill Williams]

But this is you making up your own world as usual. In fact "the investigators" is not an institution in Italy (not even "Italy" is an institution). The press conference was by the Questura, which meant Ministry of Interiors (approval of Giuliano Amato at the time).
The Procura is Judiciary, nothing to do with the press conference.

The prosecution did not take any blow at all. Did not have their credibility affected in the slightest by De Felice press conference. I know Italy slighlty better than you, and I can state this adamantly.

You also appear to be ignorant about what the police actually said to the press.

Is there an Italian word for backpeddling, Machiavelli?

Who really cares about all this? The Marasca/Bruno court was clear, and has now written about it. The investigation was flawed. The prosecution was a massive sham.

 

[Bill Williams]

The prosecution had nothing to do with the police or any government press conference. There is no link between the two things in the eyes of Italians.
I can easilly show that the "amandaknoxcase" site narrative by the pro-Knox activists, when they talk about the Questura press conference, is just a series of nonsensical lies. (through which they try to rationalize their belief and justify a conspiracy theory).
Police conspiracies obviously exist (Italy included), but to say that the Questura press conference in Perugia was a blow to the prosecution's credibility is simply idiotic, unrelated to reality.

Machiavelli, please give it up. The Italian Supreme Court now fits the definition of "pro-Knox activists" according to you.

The entirety of the Italian press now fits the definition of "pro-Knox activists" according to you.

Please give up this pro-guilt campaign of yours. You lost. Mignini lost. You saw him today, how's he keeping up in this atmosphere?

 

[Machiavelli]

Is there an Italian word for backpeddling, Machiavelli?

Who really cares about all this? The Marasca/Bruno court was clear, and has now written about it. The investigation was flawed. The prosecution was a massive sham.

The Marasca/Bruno report only shows thing about themselves, and they will face the consequence on their credibility, not the prosecution.
Btw, the Marasca/Bruno also says Knox is an obvious liar and was on the crime scene when Meredith was killed, since you appear to like the report that much.

I know that you don't care about truth, because you never cared about. Had you some interest in truth, you would be interested in reality of things, rather than attempting to parse rhetoric.
You would note, for example, that the computer drives were not destroyed, that Questura and Procura are two independent powers, or that the pro-Knox narratives are shown to be fabricated with proven lies.

 

[Machiavelli]

Machiavelli, please give it up. The Italian Supreme Court now fits the definition of "pro-Knox activists" according to you.

The 5th section indeed does. Although they are more pro-Sollecito, and pro-Clinton, insofar as they state that Knox is probably guilty of murder, that she was certainly on the murder scene when the murder was committed, and she is certainly guilty of calunnia.

The entirety of the Italian press now fits the definition of "pro-Knox activists" according to you.

Please give up this pro-guilt campaign of yours. You lost. Mignini lost. You saw him today, how's he keeping up in this atmosphere?

You are delusional. Talk about facts of the case, if you can.

 

[Bill Williams]

The Marasca/Bruno report only shows thing about themselves, and they will face the consequence on their credibility, not the prosecution.Btw, the Marasca/Bruno also says Knox is an obvious liar and was on the crime scene when Meredith was killed, since you appear to like the report that much.

I know that you don't care about truth, because you never cared about. Had you some interest in truth, you would be interested in reality of things, rather than attempting to parse rhetoric.
You would note, for example, that the computer drives were not destroyed, that Questura and Procura are two independent powers, or that the pro-Knox narratives are shown to be fabricated with proven lies.

Parse rhetoric? All I asked for was someone else in Italy who has gone on the record, as you have, with opinions that you share.

Name one Italian source.... then we can talk "facts". Right now there is nothing to parse. It actually does not matte who you include in your ever expanding definition of "Knox-activists," or "pro-Knox narratives." This is over.

BTW - what is this consequence of which you speak? There is not a single person in Italy, other than you, who will put their name to this claim of yours.

You still have not answered - how is Mignini doing today? It must suck to be him.

 

[Bill Williams]

You are delusional. Talk about facts of the case, if you can.

Ok - acc. to the Italian Supreme Court, both of them are innocent, and this case is over.