Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

Love this

"The judges denounced the prosecutors’ argument that there was not more physical evidence linking Knox and Sollecito to the crime because they had selectively cleaned the crime scene as illogical. Such an act would have been impossible, they said."

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ed-because-of-stunning-flaws-in-investigation

 

[Kauffer]

Guilted nuts

Machiavelli is saying on Twitter that the court has confirmed that Amanda was at the apartment on the night of the murder!

https://mobile.twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/status/640938246487285760

Does anyone have anything on this?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

From what I am hearing from my friend Luca, the report is damning of the investigation but also adds language at the end that works to continue clouding the truth so that everyone involved can be protected. Of course, their reasoning will keep the internet debate alive for those who are still interested. The fact is that it is over. Those who are certain of innocence will never hear the exact answers they want to hear. Far too much damage has been done for that to happen now. In the end, an imperfect system came to the correct conclusion. Rudy Guede committed the crime. The flawed investigation led to wrongful convictions. Let's be grateful that Amanda and Raffaele are free. This is the correct outcome, regardless of the path taken to reach that conclusion.

 

[Kauffer]

From what I am hearing from my friend Luca, the report is damning of the investigation but also adds language at the end that works to continue clouding the truth so that everyone involved can be protected. Of course, their reasoning will keep the internet debate alive for those who are still interested. The fact is that it is over. Those who are certain of innocence will never hear the exact answers they want to hear. Far too much damage has been done for that to happen now. In the end, an imperfect system came to the correct conclusion. Rudy Guede committed the crime. The flawed investigation led to wrongful convictions. Let's be grateful that Amanda and Raffaele are free. This is the correct outcome, regardless of the path taken to reach that conclusion.

Yes, yes, of course. But the motavazione has criticised Amanda for implicating Lumumba despite stating that she was under duress! These people need teaching about human rights. The ECHR case is essential in this matter. It is not over. It will be over when they rule and Italy vacates that verdict.

 

[Bill Williams]

Machiavelli is saying on Twitter that the court has confirmed that Amanda was at the apartment on the night of the murder!

https://mobile.twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/status/640938246487285760

Does anyone have anything on this?

Which "apartment"? The cottage or at Raffaele's?

 

[bagels]

Machiavelli is saying on Twitter that the court has confirmed that Amanda was at the apartment on the night of the murder!

https://mobile.twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/status/640938246487285760

Does anyone have anything on this?

This is what it google translates to:

"other person you were secluded in the room the same Kercher for sexual intercourse , he had heard a heartrending cry of his friend, to the point of unbearable and agonizing slide down , squatting on the ground , holding tight hands to his ears not to hear any more . In this regard , and certainly shared the judgment of trust expressed by the national court in regards to this part of the narrative of the accused , on the plausible reflection that it was she to mention , for the first time , a possible motive for the murder and sexual speaking of the scream heartbreaking victim , even when the investigators did not have the results of the inspection"

It seems to imply Amanda's statement about hearing Meredith scream brought up the sexual motive before the result of the forensic investigation. I don't think this implies anything about her being there. It appears to be the part of the motivation reporting bending over to get the investigators, prosecutors, and convicting courts off the hook for beating a confession out of her by explaining she brought it on herself and appeared to have insightful testimony or something. But who knows without a thorough translation.

 

[Bill Williams]

From what I am hearing from my friend Luca, the report is damning of the investigation but also adds language at the end that works to continue clouding the truth so that everyone involved can be protected. Of course, their reasoning will keep the internet debate alive for those who are still interested. The fact is that it is over. Those who are certain of innocence will never hear the exact answers they want to hear. Far too much damage has been done for that to happen now. In the end, an imperfect system came to the correct conclusion. Rudy Guede committed the crime. The flawed investigation led to wrongful convictions. Let's be grateful that Amanda and Raffaele are free. This is the correct outcome, regardless of the path taken to reach that conclusion.

Yes, yes, of course. But the motavazione has criticised Amanda for implicating Lumumba despite stating that she was under duress! These people need teaching about human rights. The ECHR case is essential in this matter. It is not over. It will be over when they rule and Italy vacates that verdict.

The legal culture in Italy simply cannot go that final step. For some reason they still have to convict Amanda of something, even when they say she was under duress when committing this "crime".

Still.....

Finally, this case is playing, ever so briefly, in the Italian press. I have no idea if the following is representative, but run it through a translator. It is a stunning indictment of the travesty of justice that led to two convictions, and a final exoneration.

This is in Italy in Italian. Is there any Italian language voice counter to this? I guess we'll have to wait for Machiavelli to get back home from court!

http://tuttoggi.info/omicidio-meredith-la-cassazione-colpevoli-omissioni-nelle-indagini/293156/

Summary for those who don't want to click. This is in Italy in Italian!

- a completely inadequate investigation at the scene and in the days following it

- The sexual motive is bunk, and there is no evidence at all that Sollecito knew Guede

- Biological traces were too small, and the computers of the defendants were trashed by the carelessness of investigators

- Time of death issues revealed the deplorable carelessness of the investigation.

- Bra clasp can have no evidentiary value because of the 46 day delay in collection. (Stefanoni) wore obviously dirty gloves.​

​

The defense lawyers thanked the court for validating their thesis, finally hearing and appreciating the miscarriage of justice that marked this case.

- It was manifestly impossible for AK and/or RS to have been involved with this crime and have left no trace of their involvement.

- the compelling issue about the alleged weapon, the kitchen knife, is that there is no blood evidence associated with it. The starch which was found (!) was of the absorbent kind which manifestly would have sopped up blood if it had been there!

- the media hype accelerated the need to pin this crime on someone​

The Maresca report quotes Galileo Galilei about the scientific method, which must be used to establish guilt, or have "reasonable doubt" doctrine kick in. Evidence has to be based on "reality, reliable, verifiable, and acceptable", which is was not in any of the stages of this case.

 

[Strozzi]

Do you have the number? No, wait! I'll tell you what it is. It's Amanda's own number! This is because the calls you are referring to are calls made to Amanda's phone and automatically diverted to her voicemail. Van der Leek laughably made this excruciating mistake in one of his 'books'. He isn't awfully bright and neither are his cohorts.

He wrote a 'book' with many serious mistakes. Who proofed it before publication?

 

[Numbers]

I may need to pat myself on the back. The Marasca CSC panel apparently supports the convenient suspect theory in explaining why Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito became suspects (from the Daily Mail):

'The international spotlight on the case in fact resulted in the investigation undergoing a sudden acceleration, that, in the frantic search for one or more guilty parties to consign to international public opinion, certainly didn't help the search for substantial truth,' the judges wrote.

The high court in March declared that Knox, now 28, and Sollecito, now 31, didn't murder the 21-year-old Kercher, a stronger exoneration than merely finding there was insufficient evidence to convict.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...utors-frantic-guilty-party.html#ixzz3l52AWdzG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Strozzi]

Amanda was acquainted with Rudy. It is a fact.

Acquainted, yes. That is very, very different from what you have been claiming in your 2,000 posts.

 

[acbytesla]

Acquainted, yes. That is very, very different from what you have been claiming in your 2,000 posts.

Yeah, I usually commit murders with people I've been acquainted with for at least 3 weeks, not just 2.

 

[Ken Dine]

52 pages is nice and succinct. Of course she couldn't be guilty if there were no traces of her in the room. No competent jury could come to any other conclusion, which rather proves the point that neither in the U.S. or the UK, regardless of whatever suspect centred investigation might have taken place, no DA and no member of the CPS would have put the case before a court.

By Italian scales, 52 pages was overly succinct, but by most rational standards, 10 pages max would have done it

I haven't seen any more than the headlines at this point, but would love to know what's been said about Stefanoni's work - I think they have discussed contamination, which is good.

Yes, the media summaries seemed to indicate that Stefanoni could be in for a drubbing, but it would be nice to actually see if they do it, and how far they go, but we may need to wait for a complete translation to be made, or at least articles with more detail.

Not sure anything ECHR related has been cited and it would appear that there is criticism of Amanda with regard to the callunia - shameful. The ECHR will put this right.

I agree, shameful!

Clearly the police and Mignini have come in for a hammering. The man is finished - reputation in tatters. He will be shunned, perhaps even by his friends, if any of them have actually been loyal enough still to call themselves his friends.

The only thing that worries me about that, is that the court claimed that Amanda had the chance to recant her Lumumba accusations once she was away from the cops and with Mignini, as if Mignini was a neutral party?

That doesn't mean that they won't ultimately take Mignini to task for his part, but the court's opinion (as reported) about the Nov 6th illegal interrogation of Amanda while in the presence of Mignini, their characterization of Mignini as someone Amanda could have confided in that night, that part did concern me.

 

[Bill Williams]

Well, now that the Italian media has awoken to this case after about 6 months of crickets, one thing is for sure.....

The Italian media must be all in on the massive conspiracy. Maybe they're all Masons.

Sadly we'll have to wait for Machiavelli to get back from the calunnia trial before we can know the extent of the conspiracy.

 

[Ken Dine]

Machiavelli is saying on Twitter that the court has confirmed that Amanda was at the apartment on the night of the murder!

https://mobile.twitter.com/Machiavelli_Aki/status/640938246487285760

Does anyone have anything on this?

No, but from the below posting it's clear that Machiavelli is still on his usual rant:

@JackJ4MK she is guilty, by any legal standard of proof. This is a mocking of the law and of human intelligence.
11:09am - 7 Sep 15

That guy is going to blow a gasket!

 

[davefoc]

No, but from the below posting it's clear that Machiavelli is still on his usual rant:

@JackJ4MK she is guilty, by any legal standard of proof. This is a mocking of the law and of human intelligence.
11:09am - 7 Sep 15

That guy is going to blow a gasket!

Interesting that he said "she is guilty". Did he forget Sollecito? It's seems like his anger is only directed at Knox. Is that because the motivation for Machiavelli all along has been some sort of deep seated hatred of Knox and he just didn't care about Sollecito?

 

[Numbers]

52 pages is nice and succinct. Of course she couldn't be guilty if there were no traces of her in the room. No competent jury could come to any other conclusion, which rather proves the point that neither in the U.S. or the UK, regardless of whatever suspect centred investigation might have taken place, no DA and no member of the CPS would have put the case before a court.

I haven't seen any more than the headlines at this point, but would love to know what's been said about Stefanoni's work - I think they have discussed contamination, which is good.

Not sure anything ECHR related has been cited and it would appear that there is criticism of Amanda with regard to the callunia - shameful. The ECHR will put this right.

Clearly the police and Mignini have come in for a hammering. The man is finished - reputation in tatters. He will be shunned, perhaps even by his friends, if any of them have actually been loyal enough still to call themselves his friends.

The Marasca CSC panel MR did mention Amanda's calunnia conviction and in fact justified it, IIUC. The MR also seemed to indicate no revision was possible even if ECHR ruled in Amanda's favor. (I am relying on a very rough Google translation for this.)

By addressing Amanda's calunnia conviction explicitly, and re-justifying it, the Marasca CSC panel MR has become a document relevant to the ECHR case. (Alternatively, the MR could simply have stated that the CSC had previously ruled on the matter and the Marasca panel did not have the authority to change that ruling.)

What are the implications, if any, for the ECHR for the calunnia conviction review in this Marasca panel MR?

Perhaps, if (or, better, when) the ECHR judges in Amanda's favor, the ECHR will unfavorably criticize that part of the CSC MR. But are there other opinions on the effect on the calunnia ECHR case of this section of the Marasca panel MR?

 

[acbytesla]

No, but from the below posting it's clear that Machiavelli is still on his usual rant:

@JackJ4MK she is guilty, by any legal standard of proof. This is a mocking of the law and of human intelligence.
11:09am - 7 Sep 15

That guy is going to blow a gasket!

Oh, he lost it a long time ago. But I can't wait to see his reaction after the ECHR rules. I'm melting, I'm melting.

 

[Samson]

Dear Moderator, I don't know what you are referring to above, but you or one of your colleagues recently squashed a statement I recently posted regarding having been present when Donald Trump stated his view that Amanda Knox is innocent. That was on topic.

I totally agree. I am glad I found it accidentally in AAH.

 

[Desert Fox]

I take a few hours to hike 15 miles and find almost five additional pages of discussion.

Even if Amanda loses this new publicity stunt out of the Italian legal system, I don't see any way she will be extradited. I doubt even the rest of Europe or Canada will pay much attention.

I know soon after exoneration, she said she might like to go back to Italy. I am sorry but I recommend against it. I kind of suggest that Raff finds employment outside of Italy as well.

 

[Bill Williams]

Interesting that he said "she is guilty". Did he forget Sollecito? It's seems like his anger is only directed at Knox. Is that because the motivation for Machiavelli all along has been some sort of deep seated hatred of Knox and he just didn't care about Sollecito?

In fairness to Machiavelli he's referring only to the calunnia charge about the slap on the head at interrogation for Amanda, currently begire a court.