Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[LondonJohn]

BTW, my reading of one of the Italian reports is that the SC motivations report suggests that it's possible that Guede could have had accomplices, but that a) all the evidence is also compatible with Guede acting alone, and b) even in the event that there were accomplices, there's zero decent, reliable evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were they.

 

[Ken Dine]

What did she say to Mignini when not under pressure that confirmed her accusation of Patrick?

Dec 17, 2007 (?) interview with Mignini, she tried to explain it. She said at the time, she thought it might be true.

Does anyone know if there is a transcript from that hearing with Mignini?

Not positive, but I think they are referring to Mignini's interview with Amanda in the wee hours of Nov 6th.

My take is, that the court felt that if Amanda had been badgered by the cops to implicate Lumumba earlier in the evening as she claimed, then once Amanda was safely away from those cops and in the loving arms of Mignini, that she could have recanted her Lumumba accusations to Mignini.

The court also went on to interpret her voluntary handwritten statement written later that morning as another opportunity for Amanda to recant her accusations.

As someone has already noted here, something may have been lost in the translations of Amanda's English into Italian, because that's not a reasonable interpretation of Amanda's two voluntary handwritten statements, especially when she wrote them while in an obviously confused state without a lawyer present.

 

[carbonjam72]

BTW, my reading of one of the Italian reports is that the SC motivations report suggests that it's possible that Guede could have had accomplices, but that a) all the evidence is also compatible with Guede acting alone, and b) even in the event that there were accomplices, there's zero decent, reliable evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were they.

If the absolute absence of any evidence of Knox and Sollecito in the room where Meredith was killed, means they were likely not involved in the murder, then why wouldn't the same absence of evidence against anyone else, similarly argue that Guede acted alone, and that no one else participated in the murder with him?

 

[Numbers]

What is the nature of the precedent? I thought this was a decision of the united chamber. Maybe Numbers or Methos know about that.

Who told you this (I am assuming, perhaps uncharitably, you didn't figure it out yourself)?

The Marasca CSC panel was a standard 5-judge CSC panel. A United Sections (aka Joined Chambers) panel has 9 judges.

 

[Bill Williams]

Hehehe. And it appears that (unsurprisingly) Mignini is sticking with his
fallacy of "not asking any questions" - taking care to overlook perhaps the only question he asked, which was along the lines of "Amanda, why don't you tell me again everything that you just told the police, so that I can see how I can help you?".

It's my firm contention that Mignini knew exactly what he was doing that night. He was very deliberately nudging Knox into making what he could subsequently claim was a "spontaneous declaration", since he knew full well that the statement Knox had given to the police was unusable against her at trial.

Exactly. The only question which remains, is will this be exposed at this trial.

 

[Bill Williams]

Oh but you must know very well how the lunatics will position themselves in the light of this report. Perm one of three:

1) The Supreme Court has been nobbled by powerful external factions, and therefore its verdict and motivations are corrupt and wrong;

2) The Supreme Court has acted incompetently and outside its remit, and therefore its verdict and motivations are incompetent and wrong;

3) The Supreme Court has only ruled that guilt was not proved beyond a reasonable doubt (and in any case the SC made some incorrect conclusions in reaching this verdict). Therefore the verdict is still wholly compatible with a factually-guilty Knox and Sollecito.

Still - I'll rather enjoy watching the morons shout themselves to a standstill

Well, one of the moronic, guilter possibilities has been nixed today. That one was that the Marasca motivations report would reinstate the convictions.

This is like throwing 200 darts simultaneously at a dart-board and then exclaiming, "Look I got a bullseye!"

 

[Ken Dine]

Oh but you must know very well how the lunatics will position themselves in the light of this report. Perm one of three:

1) The Supreme Court has been nobbled by powerful external factions, and therefore its verdict and motivations are corrupt and wrong;

2) The Supreme Court has acted incompetently and outside its remit, and therefore its verdict and motivations are incompetent and wrong;

3) The Supreme Court has only ruled that guilt was not proved beyond a reasonable doubt (and in any case the SC made some incorrect conclusions in reaching this verdict). Therefore the verdict is still wholly compatible with a factually-guilty Knox and Sollecito.

Still - I'll rather enjoy watching the morons shout themselves to a standstill

The only question is, how long will it take Harry Rag and his 'Guilter' chums to actually wind down? Hating Amanda and spreading their lies is seemingly their only purpose in life!

I suspect many 'Guilters' will keep going strong until old age slows them down, and their eventual death finally stops them for good.

Since they spend all day at their computers with little time for exercise, the end may come sooner than later.


Myself, I'm off for my daily bike ride before it gets too hot here – supposed to be over 100º for the next week here – I'm ready for Fall weather.

 

[Kauffer]

Simple

52 pages is nice and succinct. Of course she couldn't be guilty if there were no traces of her in the room. No competent jury could come to any other conclusion, which rather proves the point that neither in the U.S. or the UK, regardless of whatever suspect centred investigation might have taken place, no DA and no member of the CPS would have put the case before a court.

I haven't seen any more than the headlines at this point, but would love to know what's been said about Stefanoni's work - I think they have discussed contamination, which is good.

Not sure anything ECHR related has been cited and it would appear that there is criticism of Amanda with regard to the callunia - shameful. The ECHR will put this right.

Clearly the police and Mignini have come in for a hammering. The man is finished - reputation in tatters. He will be shunned, perhaps even by his friends, if any of them have actually been loyal enough still to call themselves his friends.

 

[Kauffer]

As this is setting case precedent, they should have consulted united chamber first.

I have seen no comment whatsoever from the constitutional court on this point. I have seen nothing from any judge in this regard and I have seen nothing from any academic. And you have seen nothing either.

 

[Kauffer]

There were a series of calls to a number police were unable to trace. Amanda even went to hang around the basketball court post-murder, presumably expecting to meet someone.

Do you have the number? No, wait! I'll tell you what it is. It's Amanda's own number! This is because the calls you are referring to are calls made to Amanda's phone and automatically diverted to her voicemail. Van der Leek laughably made this excruciating mistake in one of his 'books'. He isn't awfully bright and neither are his cohorts.

 

[Kauffer]

BTW, my reading of one of the Italian reports is that the SC motivations report suggests that it's possible that Guede could have had accomplices, but that a) all the evidence is also compatible with Guede acting alone, and b) even in the event that there were accomplices, there's zero decent, reliable evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were they.

Citing the lack of traces in the room as a principle reason to acquit, logically means that anyone else who might conceivably have been tried in addition to Guede could not have been convicted either - unless the accomplices were simply burglary accomplices who were in the vicinity. Of course, some names have been mentioned as possible suspects in this regard, but I am not persuaded at all.

 

[acbytesla]

Do you have the number? No, wait! I'll tell you what it is. It's Amanda's own number! This is because the calls you are referring to are calls made to Amanda's phone and automatically diverted to her voicemail. Van der Leek laughably made this excruciating mistake in one of his 'books'. He isn't awfully bright and neither are his cohorts.

Clueless. It's damn amazing just how desperate the guilters are. Will Vixen realize with this very important point that she has been wrong all along?

Or will she double down on ignorance and illogical?

I'm taking bets.

 

[carbonjam72]

Clueless. It's damn amazing just how desperate the guilters are. Will Vixen realize with this very important point that she has been wrong all along?

Or will she double down on ignorance an illogical?

I'm taking bets.

I just have to say it, those comments are not in my view intended as serious POV, but rather solely designed to solicit a reaction that is emotional and outraged. Sad to say once again, mission accomplished. Well done V.

But the guilter desperation behind these last gasps, is a sight for sure.

 

[analemma]

The Motivations are out.
It sounds like Cassation has joined FOA.
Unbelievable condemnations of "shoddy police work".
How is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Certainly the unusual hype of the story, due not only to the dramatic mode of death of a twenty-two year old, so absurd and incomprenesible in its genesis, but also to the nationality of the people involved meant international repercussions,” the court wrote. “That has meant that the investigations suffered a sudden acceleration, which, in the frantic search for one or more culprits to be delivered to international public opinion, certainly did not [facilitate] seeking the truth.” That rush, the court said, “affected not only the timing, but also the completeness and correctness of the investigative activities.” "
Try this QUOTE
The murder trial was a process objectively wavering, whose oscillations are, however, also the result of sensational defaillance or investigative amnesia and guilty omission of investigations.”

There is much, much, more of the same.
Really bad for the guilters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am still reading.

 

[analemma]

From the Daily Mail HEADLINE
Amanda Knox was cleared over Meredith Kercher's murder because there was no evidence she was at the murder scene, reveals scathing Italian court report blaming prosecutors 'frantic to find a guilty party'

 

[analemma]

From Barbi, no less, in Daily Beast
Citing the lack of “whole proof” based on evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, the court squarely blamed investigators for their faulty police work, accusing them of “investigative amnesia” and “guilty omissions,” which the high court judges said led to the absence of a solid case that could have easily gone the other way.

"In the opinion of the Supreme Court, if it were not for the weak investigation and if the investigation had not been affected by guilty omissions, the court would, in all likelihood, be allowed right now to outline a framework, if not on absolute certainty at least of tranquil reliability, in view of the guilt of Knox and Sollecito for the charge of killing the British student Meredith Kercher in Perugia on Nov. 1, 2007.”

Instead, the court had no choice, it said, but to throw out the case in its entirety because of the marred investigations and the procedural mistakes in the many trials of the case which, it said, were so unsound they could not be considered just. In the reasoning, the high court pointed out a number of examples of procedural malpractice in both the courts that convicted and acquitted Knox and Sollecito, ruling that reasonable doubt prevailed under such circumstances.
the judges agreed that one of the most troubling aspects of the case was Knox’s accusation against her pub boss Patrick Lumumba for Kercher’s murder in the early days of the investigation. “The troubled path and inherently contradictory fact of the Kercher murder trial is a result of the irrefutable certainty: the guilt of Amanda Knox of the slanderous accusations against Patrick Lumumba.”

Those accusations, it said, were made under duress, but not to such an extent that they could be considered nullified in the eyes of the law. Their final word of the document is a line restating that guilty verdict and supporting the three years of prison handed down to Knox, which she served during her incarceration. That also means that she cannot sue Italy for more than one year of unlawful incarceration since the high court ruled that she had committed a crime.

Even this court does not see that the Collunia conviction is clearly nonsense, stubbornly admitting that even though the statements "were made under duress!!!!!!" "they could be considered nullified in the eyes of the law"!!!!
WTF????????????????
IMO, this admission, in the motivations, assures that the Italian courts can look forward to another colossal ass kicking by the ECHR, which I am sure will not agree that statements that the Italian court ADMITS "were made under duress", without a lawyer, are not nullified.
WHAT??????????????
After the ECHR smack down the Italians will be shelling out tons of Eoros to both of them.
An Italy has NO EXCUSE for locking up Raf for four years, and he will definitely get compensation.

Barbi must be peeing herself.

I have no seen the reaction from TJMK, but I mirthfully look forward to the future mental gymnastics form that site.

 

[bagels]

I guess the Supreme Court never saw Raffs manga collection.

 

[analemma]

Many sources stated:

Monday's explanation effectively agreed with her supporters.

 

[analemma]

Is anyone logged on?
Did everyone get suspended?
Am I having an internet hallucination?
I imagine the Guilters reacting with replies from the Black Knight in the search for the holy Grail, something like:

It is only a flesh wound,
I have had worse!!!!
I am not a quitter!!!!!

 

[bagels]

Is anyone logged on?
Did everyone get suspended?
Am I having an internet hallucination?
I imagine the Guilters reacting with replies from the Black Knight in the search for the holy Grail, something like:

It is only a flesh wound,
I have had worse!!!!
I am not a quitter!!!!!

Well we already knew they acquitted her, so there wasn't a lot of suspense building up to this. In fact this is the second time Amanda has been acquitted with an accompanying motivation report that has been scathing of the prosecution. The complete translation might reveal some interesting points of discussion, but this case has been retreading itself for a while.