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Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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I would say my initial response was more gentle than most given to Vixen.

First Ken says HE can answer some question and then writes false and questionable statements. Does someone have a cite that validates the "older" (about Raf's age) women thought BOTH students were slobs. We have one cite from pro prosecution Laura testimony that says a system of chores had been set up (doesn't say the two did it and Amanda doesn't mention fines and I only asked where he got the idea which unfortunately someone else answered with the vague testimony)and seemingly she said if 10 chores were missed (Google) a 5 Euro fine would be levied. Amanda in her book talks about her shock at the testimony of her former roommates as she couldn't recognize what they were talking about.

Laura and Filomena had moved into the cottage in August - the students took their rooms in September IIRC.

The biggest deal was the "Due to Filomena & Laura's nagging, the murder scene had been recently cleaned fairly well before the murder" which would change the possibility that the footprints were from rust etc. left at another time.

Then there was the previous claim that Amanda called Filomena the first time as she arrived at the fair and told her about the broken window but that wasn't true because Amanda only discovered it on her return. Then rather than admit he had it wrong he says 26 minutes later is just arriving because parking is difficult at fairs. As we all know 26 minutes is very significant vis-a-vis the calls to the police.

This followed claims based on some highly inaccurate article that Rudi had been arrested and the arrest suppressed.

Anyway, you all can jump on Vixen et al. for every error, ten at once, and I feel the other POV mistakes need to be addressed.



This is perfect. A perfect example of nit picking. And you don't do a decent job of defending your spewing BS attitude. Some mistakes and mild speculation, but not unreasonable on the whole. Not worth item by item.

Back to your lunch table please. So that we can wait for the motivation report.
 
We were very gentle with Vixen for a long time. The difference is that almost every single post is a lie with her. She says Amanda killed Meredith and then repeats the same tired lies.

There are pro innocent falisties as well, I grant you. For example this whole discussion about finding African hairs is not based on court records just speculation and some news reports While I think it is possible the police were looking for an African man based on some hairs found at the scene, there is no credible proof of that. And frankly, I don't find speculation to be all that valuable.

I respect your correcting the mistakes. I would have corrected Ken on his mistake as well.

Thank you Tesla. The African hair speculation is multi-fold. First off we have no idea that Steff or any of her crack crew knew how to differentiate the black hairs found from one race to another. Secondly we have no information that they looked closely at those hairs early on or ever as Steff says the hairs were most likely Rudi's. Thirdly they were keying in on Amanda and Raf as most of the hairs found looked like theirs not some black guy and of course "all the lies". The most crucial aspect is the contention that they were looking for a black from day one, which certainly wasn't clear from the early speculation of some that she must have met the guy at the Halloween party. They did interview "Shakey" or is that "Shaki"

I will respect your last statement and watch for you to step in when needed.
 
I have reviewed the comments posted here in the last several days. They range from a heated discussion on travel and traffic conditions in West Seattle to what happens to a curly hair from "down south" on a damp bad hair day. Vixen is probably sitting back, watching these discussions, and chuckling over the deterioration in debate that she instigated with her 2,000 posts. :p Is this what is meant by "look, a squirrel !"

I hope the motivation report is issued soon, for our own sanity.

I think the only way to restore sanity to the thread is for the posters to jointly write a motivation report to serve until the CSC gets around to it.

I will start us out:

In the name of the Italian People...
 
We were very gentle with Vixen for a long time. The difference is that almost every single post is a lie with her. She says Amanda killed Meredith and then repeats the same tired lies.

There are pro innocent falisties as well, I grant you. For example this whole discussion about finding African hairs is not based on court records just speculation and some news reports While I think it is possible the police were looking for an African man based on some hairs found at the scene, there is no credible proof of that. And frankly, I don't find speculation to be all that valuable.

I respect your correcting the mistakes. I would have corrected Ken on his mistake as well.


The 'Guilter' website I had sourced the crime-scene hairs from had claimed it was indeed taken from court records, and even provided the link to Stefanoni's presentation during the Mignini trial –– didn't you bother to click on that link?

Since you obviously had missed it, here's the link to Stefanoni slide presentation that she had presented in court (unfortunately, it's in Italian):

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Dr._Stefanoni's_Technical_Assessment_of_Biologicals

I don't view my claim that the police had found African hairs in Meredith's bedroom a "MISTAKE" since it's reasonable that some of the perp's hairs would have been found there! Why would a 'Guilter' website lie about that?

Humans shed over 100 hairs per day, and since Guede undressed to rape Meredith, some of those shed hairs may have fallen from Guede's clothes. Maybe, Meredith managed to grab Guede's hair in the struggle?

In any event, it's very common to find a perp's hairs at a crime scene, as explained here:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fo...ations/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm/deedric4.htm

According to the above FBI webpage, collecting crime-scene hairs and fibers is what a forensic team should do early in the investigation!)

Also, the defense must have known the police had found some African hairs, because Judge Heavey had mentioned Guede's hairs in his August 12, 2008 letter to Italy (see below).

Granted, Judge Heavey said that the African hairs were found in Meredith's hand, where Stefanoni testified that they were found on her duvet, but it's very likely that African hairs were found in Meredith's bedroom early on:

English text of a letter from Judge Michael Heavey dated 12 August 2008 to the President of Italy, the Prime Minister, and the President of the Supreme Court

The following are just some of the false information fed to the press:

1) Witnesses saw Amanda washing clothes with a Black man the morning after the crime
(Negroid hair was found in the hand of Meredith Kercher, the victim);

2) Evidence included a videotape of Amanda entering her house the night of the murder;

3) Amanda’s grip on the victim was so strong it left her finger prints on the forehead of the victim;

4) Sexual violence was perpetrated against the victim;

5) Witnesses saw three people running away from the crime;

6) Rafaele’s bloody foot print was found in the victim’s bedroom;

7) Amanda’s DNA was found on the handle of a knife and the victim’s on the blade;

8) The same knife, found in Rafaele’s kitchen, was the murder weapon;

9) Rafaele and Amanda purchased bleach the morning after the crime;

10) There was a drug induced sex orgy involving Patrick Lumumba, Amanda Knox and Rafaele Sollecito. These three killed Meredith Kercher when she would not participate. The leader was, the evil temptress, Amanda Knox.

Judge Claudia Matteini participated in this false speculation. On November 9, 2007 Judge Claudia Matteini wrote in her official report:

“It is possible to reconstruct what happened on the evening of November 1… “(Meredith) went into her room with Patrick, after which something went badly, in the sense that, in all probability, Sollecito came in and the two started to try to swap, to which the girl refused” “There was an initial desire of the three youth to try some new sensation. Above all for the boyfriend and girlfriend, while Lumumba had the desire to join carnally with a girl that he fancied and who refused him…”

MORE:

http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/2009_08-12_HeaveyOpenLetterToItaly.pdf
 
I started thinking about Judge Heavey's August 12, 2008 letter to Italy since Heavey's letter in his #1 had said two things, and the BOLD part is also interesting:

[ ]

1) Witnesses saw Amanda washing clothes with a Black man the morning after the crime
(Negroid hair was found in the hand of Meredith Kercher, the victim;


Apparently, the police had leaked the bogus story about Amanda seen washing clothes with a Black man the day after the murder early on, and by the time of the below article, the police clearly knew they had a problem linking Lumumba to the crime, which is why the police quickly latched onto a 2nd African suspect, Guede.

Of course, the below article also mentions CCTV footage of an African man leaving the cottage after the murder (why won't the police release that time-stamped footage?)


Fourth suspect in Meredith murder identified

By Malcolm Moore in Rome

11/10/2007

A fourth suspect involved in the killing of British student Meredith Kercher has been identified by police, it emerged today.

The manhunt for another possible killer began after forensic scientists identified a fingerprint in blood on a cushion in the house that did not match any of the three current suspects.

The police now think they can identify him from the footage from three car park security cameras which overlook the house where Miss Kercher was killed.

However, he has not yet been named. Miss Kercher, 21, from Coulsdon, south London, was found semi-naked with her throat cut on Friday November 1.

She may have been killed when she refused to take part in an "extreme" sexual game instigated by her room-mate, an official report has suggested.

A 19-page court document detailed the horrific last moments of the 21-year-old’s life and revealed the hypothesis her throat was slit after she was subjected to a prolonged sex assault.

A possible reconstruction suggested that, high on drugs, Miss Kercher’s American flatmate Amanda Knox and her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito had wanted to try an "extreme experience" along with Congolese immigrant Patrick Diya Lumumba.

But when Miss Kercher refused to take part in having sex, Sollecito pulled out a three-inch flick knife he carried with him.

They allegedly put a knife to her throat and forced her into having sex against her will, according to the report.

Then one of them slit her throat but the cut failed to hit the main artery and Miss Kercher died a slow agonising death.

The revelations from the report by Judge Claudia Matteini emerged as she remanded the three suspects in jail saying there were "serious indications of guilt."

Knox, 20, from Seattle, Sollecito, 23, and Lumumba, 37, from the Congo, will be kept in prison until a trial date can be set, at which point they will be formally charged with murder and sexual assault.

However, Giuliano Mignini, the public prosecutor in charge of the case, confirmed that the investigation into the murder has not finished.

A fourth man, thought to be a "musician" from North Africa, was captured on security cameras walking hastily away from the "house of horror" on the night the murder occurred. The police believe he is the same man who was spotted in a nearby launderette the following day at 1.30pm, in the company of a young woman. Witnesses said the man had acted "strangely" and had bundled a large quantity of clothes and shoes into a washing machine.
Meanwhile, Edda Mellas, the mother of Knox, visited her for the first time early this morning.

Knox’s lawyer, Luciano Ghirga, said he hoped Knox’s family would "persuade her to tell the truth".

Giuseppe Sereni, a lawyer for Lumumba, said he would put the police in touch with a key witness today in order to validate his client’s alibi.

The man, a Congolese known only as "Usi" appeared on Italian television last night and said he had spent the entire evening with Lumumba.

In her reconstruction of the night of Miss Kercher’s death, Judge Matteini wrote: "Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox spent the entire afternoon smoking hashish," she said, before Lumumba texted her mobile phone in order to arrange a meeting. The judge said Knox had previously agreed to help Lumumba "have an encounter with Meredith".

The three suspects returned to the house that Knox shared with Miss Kercher just after 9pm, at around the hour that Miss Kercher, of Coulsdon, Surrey, was returning, having eaten a pizza at the house of her best friend, Sophie Purton, the report said.

At the house, Sollecito "bored of the same old evening, and wanting to try an 'extreme experience'" allegedly took part with Lumumba and Knox in a sexual assault.

"[Meredith] went into her room with Patrick, after which something went badly, in the sense that, in all probability, Sollecito came in and the two started to try a swap, to which the girl refused," the report said.

"She was then menaced with a knife, a knife which Sollecito usually had with him, and with which Meredith was struck in the throat," wrote the judge.

"There was the initial desire of the three youths to try some new sensation. Above all for the boyfriend and girlfriend, while Lumumba had the desire to join carnally with a girl that he fancied and who refused him," she added.

She said the killer had probably put a knife to Miss Kercher’s throat, perhaps as a threat, but that this had turned "into something much more serious".

The blade had "penetrated deeply" but had not severed the Carotid artery, resulting in a "slow death".

The three suspects then tried to simulate a theft, wrecking the inside of the house and spraying the floor and sink in the bathroom with blood, according to the judge.

Police have accused Knox of helping to hold Miss Kercher down during the sexual assault claiming that her finger prints had been found on the British student’s face.

All three have protested their innocence, although Knox has confessed that she was in the house at the time that Miss Kercher was killed.

The judge said their testimonies were full of contradictions and lacked "logical explanations" for the discrepancies between their diverse accounts.

Sollecito’s alibi was countered by the fact that a footprint in blood matching his shoe was found underneath the duvet covering Miss Kercher’s corpse.

In addition, his three-inch flick knife, which he said he carried with him everywhere "as a habit since he was 13-years-old" has been taken in by police for forensic analysis.

Police also claimed that a man had reported receiving a text message by mistake which read "For me, tomorrow or tonight Meredith dies" which was sent two days before Miss Kercher was killed.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main

http://s2.excoboard.com/Courthouse_Steps_Mavens/122767/1724692
 
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I think this describes the issue.

We have a description of black fibres (hairs). We do not have any further description. We do not know if they were straight, wavy, or kinky. If they were head hair or pubic hair. If the hair was dyed or natural in colour. I seem to remember there is a comment about length, but it is unclear how accurate this is, if it represents the longest hair or an average. There is no record of formal (microscopic) analysis. We do not even know if the hairs were human (as opposed to wool, cat, dog, or even artificial fibre).

There is a wish for them to be 'African', to explain the focus on an 'African' as a suspect early in the investigation. This may be true it may not, we just do not have the facts for this to be any more than a supposition.

I have been reviewing the SAL document and there are literally dozens of human hairs recorded in the document. From a quick view, and I have not read it through to end, the hairs have been of varying lengths and colors, 2cm to 20cm, blonde, brown, reddish brown and black (there may be more in length and color I am just going from my recent viewing). An optical microscope was used to determine human or fibre and I think DNA extraction was attempted on two 4cm black hairs but was negative(?). I am quickly going by memory so you will want to look at these records for verification.

The hairs are recorded fairly early (around page 44, however, they are scattered throughout the report). The records are in order and easy to read and there are other items some may be interested in looking for. I believe these hairs are collected from the different crime scenes so you will have to read the description and probably cross reference with items collected to see exactly which room, flat, and area they came from.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...t-Stefanoni-Stato-Avanzamento-Laboratorio.pdf
 
I have been reviewing the SAL document and there are literally dozens of human hairs recorded in the document. From a quick view, and I have not read it through to end, the hairs have been of varying lengths and colors, 2cm to 20cm, blonde, brown, reddish brown and black (there may be more in length and color I am just going from my recent viewing). An optical microscope was used to determine human or fibre and I think DNA extraction was attempted on two 4cm black hairs but was negative(?). I am quickly going by memory so you will want to look at these records for verification.

The hairs are recorded fairly early (around page 44, however, they are scattered throughout the report). The records are in order and easy to read and there are other items some may be interested in looking for. I believe these hairs are collected from the different crime scenes so you will have to read the description and probably cross reference with items collected to see exactly which room, flat, and area they came from.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...t-Stefanoni-Stato-Avanzamento-Laboratorio.pdf

As always thanks for the effort to get to the facts. Did the report indicate dates for finding these hairs and testing?

From my reading the only hairs that were matched to anybody were Meredith's.
 
As always thanks for the effort to get to the facts. Did the report indicate dates for finding these hairs and testing?


As inept as the Italian CSI crew was, they obviously found lots of hairs and fibers in Meredith's room, as well as at the other apartments they had investigated.

As the FBI webpage I had posted proves, collecting hairs and fibers is Forensics 101! Of course the Italians did it, at least well enough to find many hairs & fibers (if not all of them).

The later botched DNA testing, you can blame Stefanoni for that! Likely, other CSI had collected the hairs and fibers, she just presented it all to the Massei court.

Since they clearly had collected many fibers and hairs from Meredith's bedroom, with 5 hairs compatible with Guede, it doesn't take a rocket scientist 3 weeks in the lab to determine that the African hairs they found (likely on Day-1, or Day-2 at the latest) were compatible with an African perp since those 5 hairs were obviously visibly kinky African hairs.

If that confuses you, then the next time you see a Black dude ambling about Seattle, go up and pluck a hair from his body (don't forget to duck), and then take a close look at his hair.

Cue the ton of bricks!

From my reading the only hairs that were matched to anybody were Meredith's.


You should read more!
 
Apparently, the police had leaked the bogus story about Amanda seen washing clothes with a Black man the day after the murder early on, and by the time of the below article, the police clearly knew they had a problem linking Lumumba to the crime, which is why the police quickly latched onto a 2nd African suspect, Guede.

Perhaps they pursued Rudi because he murdered Meredith but maybe just because he was black. Maybe the black man running away made them think black man. Maybe by then they had matched the hand print. Maybe Giacomo had contacted them. Maybe Rudi was one of only a few of the named guys that they couldn't find.

But I can tell you what really happened. The Albanian Mafia went to Mignini and told him that they should frame Rudi, Raf and Amanda because the real murderer was a lieutenant in their org and they didn't want to lose him. Mignini ordered the DNA and blood evidence of the mystery guy to be destroyed and they planted evidence against the other three. Rudi is scared to death of these guys so will never talk.

This is a story from corriere della sera:

LAUDROMAT – On the investigators’ files is a statement from two men who came forward on 3 November. “Early yesterday afternoon”, they say, “we went to the coin-operated laundry in Via Fabretti to do our washing. It was about 1.30 pm. We wandered off for a few minutes and when we got back to the laundromat we saw a woman and a foreigner. The foreigner left when we arrived. In front of the woman, we commented on the foreigner’s curious behaviour. She said that the foreigner had staggered in shortly before and put his washing into the machine, including some blue Nike trainers. Then he left and got stuck in the door but quickly managed to freed himself. A little later, he came back and we saw him take his washing out of the machine and put it in the dryer. The woman said she had seen him rummaging in a rubbish skip with another foreigner. He’s about one metre 75 tall with olive skin and must be North African”. It is not known who the man is or whether his odd behaviour has anything to do with the murder. At this stage, however, investigators do not want to overlook any details as they seek to discover whether any other people may have been involved in the murder.

The foreigner wasn't south African but rather part of the two percent of Perugia that are North Africans. They do not name the woman as Amanda and make her sound anything but suspicious.

Moore's other story linked should tell people all they need about his veracity and accuracy. Moore=Owen
 
The 'Guilter' website I had sourced the crime-scene hairs from had claimed it was indeed taken from court records, and even provided the link to Stefanoni's presentation during the Mignini trial –– didn't you bother to click on that link?

Since you obviously had missed it, here's the link to Stefanoni slide presentation that she had presented in court (unfortunately, it's in Italian):

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Dr._Stefanoni's_Technical_Assessment_of_Biologicals

I don't view my claim that the police had found African hairs in Meredith's bedroom a "MISTAKE" since it's reasonable that some of the perp's hairs would have been found there! Why would a 'Guilter' website lie about that?

Humans shed over 100 hairs per day, and since Guede undressed to rape Meredith, some of those shed hairs may have fallen from Guede's clothes. Maybe, Meredith managed to grab Guede's hair in the struggle?

In any event, it's very common to find a perp's hairs at a crime scene, as explained here:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fo...ations/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm/deedric4.htm

According to the above FBI webpage, collecting crime-scene hairs and fibers is what a forensic team should do early in the investigation!)

Also, the defense must have known the police had found some African hairs, because Judge Heavey had mentioned Guede's hairs in his August 12, 2008 letter to Italy (see below).

Granted, Judge Heavey said that the African hairs were found in Meredith's hand, where Stefanoni testified that they were found on her duvet, but it's very likely that African hairs were found in Meredith's bedroom early on:

I have little doubt that Rudy left hairs at the scene, but I'm not sure that the police were looking for an African man as opposed to an Italian because of it.

This is one of those tales that has taken on almost mythological proportions. Frankly, I believe they focused on Amanda and Lumumba right from the start. The text message "See you later" and the fact that Patrick showed up at Amanda's school had alarms ringing for them. They had to think why does this guy just show at Amanda's school?

By the time they let him go they had zeroed in on Rudy. They were just too stupid and prideful to admit they had made a mistake with Amanda.. I have always said, the biggest mistake the police made was holding a press conference and taking a bow.
 
Grinda said:
From my reading the only hairs that were matched to anybody were Meredith's.

You should read more!

you should read more carefully:

Of the over 480 tests prepared on samples, 93 of these constituted hairs or fibers. 86 were human hairs of varying length, in varying colors. The most significant colors noted were black, blonde, chestnut, light chestnut and red chestnut.
Only 3 hairs yielded DNA; all 3 hairs yielded DNA compatible with Ms. Kercher’s DNA. All 3 hairs were chestnut colored and over 15 cm long.
35 hairs were chestnut in color; the vast majority of these were found in Ms. Kercher’s room. 2 were also found on a kitchen sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
7 hairs were black in color. 6 of these were 4 cm long or less, and so likely Guede’s hair. 4 of these were on the duvet and 1 was on the mattress cover, both in Ms. Kercher’s room. 1 was also on a sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
21 blonde hairs were analyzed, and were likely Knox’s hairs. Most were found at Sollecito’s apartment, 10 on a sponge in the kitchen and 5 on a sweater.


From your famous hair link.

Only hairs matched were Meredith's.
 
As always thanks for the effort to get to the facts. Did the report indicate dates for finding these hairs and testing?

From my reading the only hairs that were matched to anybody were Meredith's.

The SAL records would have the testing date, however, I don't believe it would have the find date. There are a description of where/what the hair was found.

For the records I looked at most hairs did not have a test date but I do not know if there was one date which included many underneath that date. I also don't remember if the attempt to get DNA was dated but I can go back and look these up later. I was not focused on those things when I was viewing them.

ETA: So I go back and quickly look again. There were perhaps a dozen hairs (maybe more, maybe less) which were qualified to test and those have testing dates of 11/28/07. I don't know where the results would be (I assume they were negative) but there is a column on the SAL record which says "Segni Patologici"and under that the words "utile x DNA." I do not know if the x means no DNA.
 
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you should read more carefully:

Of the over 480 tests prepared on samples, 93 of these constituted hairs or fibers. 86 were human hairs of varying length, in varying colors. The most significant colors noted were black, blonde, chestnut, light chestnut and red chestnut.
Only 3 hairs yielded DNA; all 3 hairs yielded DNA compatible with Ms. Kercher’s DNA. All 3 hairs were chestnut colored and over 15 cm long.
35 hairs were chestnut in color; the vast majority of these were found in Ms. Kercher’s room. 2 were also found on a kitchen sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
7 hairs were black in color. 6 of these were 4 cm long or less, and so likely Guede’s hair. 4 of these were on the duvet and 1 was on the mattress cover, both in Ms. Kercher’s room. 1 was also on a sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
21 blonde hairs were analyzed, and were likely Knox’s hairs. Most were found at Sollecito’s apartment, 10 on a sponge in the kitchen and 5 on a sweater.


From your famous hair link.

Only hairs matched were Meredith's.

I am not sure about these numbers for the various hairs but it does at least confirm there were many.

I am not even sure of a match to Meredith. I would be very certain of compatibility, however, if there is a match/es they would be in the documentation.

Ken Dine - can you point me to where it confirms hairs as Rudy's in Stefanoni's DNA trace slide presentation?
 
you should read more carefully:

Of the over 480 tests prepared on samples, 93 of these constituted hairs or fibers. 86 were human hairs of varying length, in varying colors. The most significant colors noted were black, blonde, chestnut, light chestnut and red chestnut.
Only 3 hairs yielded DNA; all 3 hairs yielded DNA compatible with Ms. Kercher’s DNA. All 3 hairs were chestnut colored and over 15 cm long.
35 hairs were chestnut in color; the vast majority of these were found in Ms. Kercher’s room. 2 were also found on a kitchen sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
7 hairs were black in color. 6 of these were 4 cm long or less, and so likely Guede’s hair. 4 of these were on the duvet and 1 was on the mattress cover, both in Ms. Kercher’s room. 1 was also on a sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
21 blonde hairs were analyzed, and were likely Knox’s hairs. Most were found at Sollecito’s apartment, 10 on a sponge in the kitchen and 5 on a sweater.


From your famous hair link.

Only hairs matched were Meredith's.

From what I recall the last time this came up, I concluded this "famous hair quote" was simply made up. It is not in the DNA presentation or testimony, and the SALs don't support the extent of this information either.
 
From what I recall the last time this came up, I concluded this "famous hair quote" was simply made up. It is not in the DNA presentation or testimony, and the SALs don't support the extent of this information either.

Thanks Rose That's what I feared when this first resurfaced as I pointed out the source was dubious not that I would wish you to revisit this convo.

I must say that if the police actually were onto a a black perp from the beginning it would speak positively for them. There just doesn't seem to be any credible source for it.

Given their vast inabilities (shoe rings, DNA gathering, DNA testing, window breaking reconstruction) it is not a sure thing by a long shot that they could tell the difference between a hair and a fiber much less between different types of hairs.

Do you recall what they tested first and when that exactly was?
 
From what I recall the last time this came up, I concluded this "famous hair quote" was simply made up. It is not in the DNA presentation or testimony, and the SALs don't support the extent of this information either.

But the SALs do support the hair documentation and how they were viewed and whether they were fibre or hair and when they were tested if the hair were thought to be able to be tested for DNA.

Whether it supports whatever the documentation is you and Grinder have quoted I can't say. What I can say is there were many hairs and fibers collected some which were later tested (or attempted to be tested) on 11/28/07.

ETA: What is the "famous hair quote?"
 
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I am not sure about these numbers for the various hairs but it does at least confirm there were many.

I am not even sure of a match to Meredith. I would be very certain of compatibility, however, if there is a match/es they would be in the documentation.


As I recall, they found a large clump of Meredith's hair Guede had ripped from her head, so there wouldn't have been any problem getting DNA from those hairs since they included her roots.

Single hairs can be easily transferred from room to room, so finding matches that could be either Raffaele's or Amanda's (or Filomena or Laura's) in Meredith's room wouldn't necessarily be probative. Rarely can you get DNA results from hairs that don't include a follicle.

However, finding African hairs in Meredith's bedroom, when none of the gals reported any African men ever visiting the cottage, that would have set of alarm bells and cause the cops to quickly focus in on an African perp, even if the African hairs couldn't ever be matched to either Lumumba or Guede.

Ken Dine - can you point me to where it confirms hairs as Rudy's in Stefanoni's DNA trace slide presentation?


Sorry, I don't speak Italian.
:)

However, all that could be concluded from the 5 hairs is that they were consistent with Guede (since they were African hairs, the same as Guede), so no confirming DNA match was done. Nevertheless, there seems little question those 5 African hairs belonged to Guede.
 
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Thanks Rose That's what I feared when this first resurfaced as I pointed out the source was dubious not that I would wish you to revisit this convo.

I must say that if the police actually were onto a a black perp from the beginning it would speak positively for them. There just doesn't seem to be any credible source for it.

Given their vast inabilities (shoe rings, DNA gathering, DNA testing, window breaking reconstruction) it is not a sure thing by a long shot that they could tell the difference between a hair and a fiber much less between different types of hairs.

Do you recall what they tested first and when that exactly was?

I'm convinced they were but his name was Patrick.
 
But the SALs do support the hair documentation and how they were viewed and whether they were fibre or hair and when they were tested if the hair were thought to be able to be tested for DNA.

Whether it supports whatever the documentation is you and Grinder have quoted I can't say. What I can say is there were many hairs and fibers collected some which were later tested (or attempted to be tested) on 11/28/07.

ETA: What is the "famous hair quote?"

Part of the quote included a long blond hair stretched across the top of the open MK purse and comes from TJMK. That was the claim the last time it came up and I asked you at that time to take another look at the SALs. I looked at the DNA presentation and Stefanoni's testimony again and saw no reference to that or the other parts of the quote that would tend to suggest guilt. I'm not whacking the mole again or looking up the link to the quote. It's a waste of time as far as I am concerned.
 
Just ran across an anonymous blog which is pushing Andrew Hodges' book. It's also promoting Nick van der Leek's insta-book.

But in the blog is the strange stuff. Whereas Machiavelli here on ISF says there really is no Italian language, inside-of-Italy forums discussing this case, it is remarkable that the blogger I read says that everybody knows that Knox and Sollecito are guilty, and that there remains a dedicated group of FOAKers which continue to lie about the case, even though the Italian ISC has acquitted them.

I'd not read the term FOAKers for a while.

Ok, here's a list of what the blog claims is fact:

- FOAKers are a small group harrassing and deceiving the public to support two "twice convicted" murderers.

- The ISC acquittals are not final, and set to be overturned.

- the FOAKers are desperate and fraught with fear, so much so that they write op/eds for local Seattle newspapers

- the reason why the vast majority of people know AK and RS to be guilty is because, "the facts speak for themselves."

- FOAKers have defamed the public prosecutor, and the websites which support AK are troll websites.

- they attack authors on Amazon (van der Leek, Follain)

- the function of the PR firm was to elevate murderers to celebrity status.

- Seattle is *coincidentally* the base of the "now defunct" PR firm. (Note: why the stars highlighting "coincidentally"? If the firm is defunct, how is this PR push continuing?)

- it is a fact that AK slept with cocaine dealers both before and after the murder.

- RS withdrew his alibi at a press conference in late 2014.

- "Fortunately, the rest of the world reports the truth about the murder of Meredith Kercher and will continue to do so."​

Question - why is none of this gaining any ground in Italy in Italian? Is there one Italian language blog which asserts any of this? Where is this "the rest of the world"? There's this anonymous blog, a closed PMF, an open PMF controlled by God, and a Wiki also controlled by that same God.
 
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