Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

The statue of limitations ran out.

Wrong, as previously proven by triforchairty earlier in the thread.

 

[jboz]

Then why the screwdriver?

Seriously, I'm sorry to do this, I'm only monitoring the thread for information, but I have an entire set of screwdrivers in my shed. Does this this somehow make me Catwomen. The screwdriver is immaterial, it doesn't matter.

I also have a saw-zaw, a chainsaw, and an ax. Yet, somehow I'm not an ax murderer.

I screwdriver is a tool, lots of people have them on themselves at all times doesn't make them a thief.

 

[johnny karate]

The reason I find the stuff about Trayvon and the jewelry more interesting than I find the Zimmerman cousin story, is because I can see how the jewelry thing could relate very directly to things about that night. Such as establishing that Zimmerman wasn't totally nuts to think Trayvon might be casing houses, rather than just looking around in a normal fashion. Or helping explain his reactions to being monitored.

The person who implied Zimmerman might have had a sexual interest in Trayvon wasn't being serious, doesn't actually believe that, and knows it's an absurd claim. Even if it were true, having bad reasons for keeping an eye on someone doesn't entitle them to beat you to their heart's content.

Rape is a crime of violence.

That Zimmerman is a rapist demonstrates he is a violent predator.

That would have a lot of bearing on the night he stalked and murdered a teenage boy.

And you may think it's an absurd claim, but I have yet to see you offer evidence that conclusively determines Zimmerman did not attempt to rape Martin.

So, by your own standard, it hasn't been ruled out and therefore must be given due consideration.

 

[Mumbles]

This poster just lied about what I said.

Which was that I attempt to make sense of what the evidence, and testimony of various parties in this case indicate.

As in connecting the dots, the same thing both sides in court will be doing.

So when someone who thinks GZ is guilty says "he set out to kill a black boy" you don't bat an eyelash, or accuse them of "making up facts."

But me being asked to explain the distance south of the T that they ended up, and offering a conjecture that part of it may have been TM stumbling after getting up off GZ... and admitting it was conjecture... oh now THAT is problematic, right? THAT is "making up facts."

Give me a break.

Not only is it speculation, it also ignores the fact that "John" saw the two fighting in the area where Martin's body was found by police.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Also, when in her early 20s she confronted GZ with the matter in the presence of other familiy members.

Strangely enough, that story also comes only from her. No family members would even as much as confirm that was true.

From the pathetic nature of his response she may have decided he wasn't worth the effort of stomping on and got on with her life.

Yes, that sounds reasonable. Multiple rape over a decade, not worth bothering to pursue.

And she appears to now have a pretty good life and George is the same loser he's always been.

So the only question remaining is why George has her name tattooed on his body?

Addressed separately.

 

[Noztradamus]

For 10 points, can you tell what TM and GZ have in common with their tattoos ?

Sorry, I watch QI. I know about the QI trap angling for a commonly believed but wrong answer.
Keep your klaxons abated.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

This poster literally just admitted that they have made up facts in their posts and will in the future.

The word literally , I do not think it means what you think it means.

You clearly don't know what the word literally means.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

No, really.

You have repeatedly asserted that Zimmerman's claims are evidence in of themselves.

By that same standard, so are the claims of his cousin.

You wanted evidence that Zimmerman committed rape, there it is.

So you finally agree all of GZ claims are evidence. Good to know.

That article clearly states that Martin never received any disciplinary action for possessing the jewelry, and that the jewelry was never actually proven to be stolen, and most importantly, it states that the police reported Martin had never been arrested.

That's three separate data points to serve as evidence that no criminal charge were filed over the allegedly stolen jewelry.

What evidence do you have?

I'm not claiming there were criminal charges or he got in trouble for that incident.

And unlike Zimmerman, Martin was actually caught red-handed. Still no charges filed.

Right. Didn't claim there were, did I ?

Or if anything illegal actually happened outside of the imagination of the school officer who supposedly caught Martin with the jewelry that didn't result in any criminal charges.

Right. Didn't claim there were, did I ?

Martin is a burglar just like Zimmerman is a rapist.

Well then, you should talk with all the folks calling GZ a rapist, becuase I am not going around calling TM a burglar.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Sorry, I watch QI. I know about the QI trap angling for a commonly believed but wrong answer.
Keep your klaxons abated.

I don't. Don't even know what it is. Sorry.

Does that mean you do or do not have an answer to my question ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Not only is it speculation, it also ignores the fact that "John" saw the two fighting in the area where Martin's body was found by police.

And how far did they move in the few seconds "John" was watching them ?

 

[johnny karate]

Yes, that sounds reasonable. Multiple rape over a decade, not worth bothering to pursue.

Yes, that sounds reasonable. A teenage boy is a caught with stolen jewlery and a burglary tool, doesn't get so much as suspension.

 

[Mumbles]

Silver rings can be had for $20.

http://www.overstock.com/Jewelry-Watches/Rings/Sterling-Silver,/metal,/2360/cat.html

So yeah, not worth crap.

This came up when people wanted to discuss Martin's gold fronts as proof that he must have had access to an enormous sum of money. In truth, it's not at all hard to find cheap jewelry of dubious quality.

But here's my question - how exactly is a guy who breaks into houses going to end up stealing, of all things, wedding bands? By definition, that's the one piece of jewelry that one would not expect to simply be lying around (although some people do remove them at various points in the day), which makes them an unlikely target for a house burglar. Also, it's not exactly uncommon for guys to wear stud earrings. Based on this, I suspect that the nature of the jewelry is being misreported. It could make sense, though, if someone had stolen some of their family's keepsakes, for example (which would also explain why they weren't reported - that would be harder to notice than a break-in).

 

[Noztradamus]

I don't. Don't even know what it is. Sorry.

Does that mean you do or do not have an answer to my question ?

It means I know what you think is the answer. It's not

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yes, that sounds reasonable. A teenage boy is a caught with stolen jewlery and a burglary tool, doesn't get so much as suspension.

Don't lie, it was never claimed to be stolen jewelry. Just that most teenage boys don't usually own and carry around multiple pieces of women's jewelry and a screwdriver.

I can't even begin to fathom why you would compare punishment for rape and school punishment as if they equivalent.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It means I know what you think is the answer. It's not

OK then.

 

[johnny karate]

So you finally agree all of GZ claims are evidence. Good to know.

Yep, just like Zimmerman's cousin's claims are evidence that he's a rapist.

I'm not claiming there were criminal charges or he got in trouble for that incident.

Right. Didn't claim there were, did I ?

Right. Didn't claim there were, did I ?

Still, compared to a school record in which no one was charged and no one alleges any criminality? No charges there either. Another double standard from you? No charges means no crimes, except here they don't?

How are you privy to TM school or criminal (if any) records ? How can you claim there are no charges, or even convictions ?

Putting aside your earlier incredulity which you clearly wish to distance yourself from now, I trust this issue can be put to bed.

Well then, you should talk with all the folks calling GZ a rapist, becuase I am not going around calling TM a burglar.

Since you jumped into the fray, I'm content to continue talking with you.

That's kind of how it works around here. You post things. Other people respond.

I suppose the smartest strategy for someone wishing to not experience blowback would be to not participate.

 

[Noztradamus]

OK then.

Just who are you, and what have you done with TheL8Elvis?

 

[johnny karate]

Don't lie, it was never claimed to be stolen jewelry. Just that most teenage boys don't usually own and carry around multiple pieces of women's jewelry and a screwdriver.

Oops...

Oh, agreed. Without some 'evidence' like "being in possession of a pile of stolen jewelry and a burglary tool" then it would be wildly inappropriate to imply that someone might have been a burglar.

I assume my apology for that saying I lied will be forthcoming.

I can't even begin to fathom why you would compare punishment for rape and school punishment as if they equivalent.

I can't even begin to fathom why you think I did such a thing.

You made this particular argument in an effort to undermine the validity of the rape allegations:

Again, I invite you to explain why there never were and still are not any charges filed for this egregious act, if so much "evidence" exists.

I merely pointed out that the same argument can be used regarding the burglary allegations.

In both case, no charge were filed, so by that particular standard, they are equally valid allegations.

And by the way, how do you know sexual assault charges won't eventually be filed?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yep, just like Zimmerman's cousin's claims are evidence that he's a rapist.

Putting aside your earlier incredulity which you clearly wish to distance yourself from now, I trust this issue can be put to bed.

I see that Unabogie made a blanket claim regarding information that I am sure he is not privy to. You think one article regarding this incident clears TM of any any other wrongdoing, ever ? Odd.

Since you jumped into the fray, I'm content to continue talking with you.

That's kind of how it works around here. You post things. Other people respond.

I suppose the smartest strategy for someone wishing to not experience blowback would be to not participate.

You brought up "Martin is a burglar just like Zimmerman is a rapist." in a response to me - I'm pointing out I'm not saying either, so you shouldn't have been bringing it up to me in the first place. I'm sorry your sarcasm got in the way of the actual flow of the conversation.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Oops...
I assume my apology for that saying I lied will be forthcoming.

Since you just posted (and bolded)
that it was not stolen jewelry:

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen.

I 'm not going to apologize because someone in the thread referred to it as stolen, since you demonstrated you knew it wasn't stolen just a few short posts ago.

I can't even begin to fathom why you think I did such a thing.

You made this particular argument in an effort to undermine the validity of the rape allegations:

I merely pointed out that the same argument can be used regarding the burglary allegations.

In both case, no charge were filed, so by that particular standard, they are equally valid allegations.

The same argument can't be made, because there were no charges to be filed, since jewelry was never reported as stolen. So the same argument cannot be made.False equivalence

And by the way, how do you know sexual assault charges won't eventually be filed?

By the way, where did I make that claim ?