Contest: Decipher Herman Cain's Abortion Position

Ryokan said:
What I heard was that, yes, at first he said no exception, but then goes on to say that not the state, not the government, and no politician should ever tell any of these women what to do. That, in my mind, is the very essence of pro-choice.
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Ah but you see they are not being told what to do, but being told what not to do. The state is all about that.
 
SezMe said:
I think Cain is making a distinction that appears to be missed here. He's against abortion. But in the case of rape and incest, he'll leave the decision to the woman/family that is facing the issue.

It's good politics. Bad policy in my opinion but good politics as he pursues the nomination. He appeals to the base but leaves himself wriggle room in the election ... if he gets there.
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A contender for the prize! I also think this is what he might have intended to convey. Too bad for him that he doesn't know how to say it without causing mass confusion.
 
varwoche said:
Piers Morgan gets an F.
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Agreed. Dreadful performance, as usual. He seemed to recognize that he'd elicited a bombshell, but didn't have any interest in pressing the case. What a douche nozzle.
 
Juniversal said:
Sarcasm? :confused: In this recent interview his initial language gave the impression of him being unequivocally pro-life but once he "clarifies" he sounds pro-choice. Talk about a massive flip flop. :boggled:
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I agree that he flip-flopped or contradicted himself. But there was nothing evasive about it.
 
Juniversal said:
Add Cain to the list of unintetionally funny Republicans. :D
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Yep--I think his version of that was "not intended as a factual statement" is "it was a joke" whenever he's caught seriously saying something idiotic or embarrassing.
 
SezMe said:
I think Cain is making a distinction that appears to be missed here. He's against abortion. But in the case of rape and incest, he'll leave the decision to the woman/family that is facing the issue.
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Except that he said he's against abortion in all cases with no exceptions (it's wrong under any circumstances). In fact that was exactly what Piers Morgan was asking him about when he made his first statement on abortion in the interview. [ETA: Morgan observed that previously Cain's position was distinguishable from many of the other candidates because he made no rape or incest exception.]

Moreover, the rape and incest exception isn't compatible with the idea that human life begins at conception. If abortion is the moral equivalent of murder (killing a human life, which Cain says begins at conception), rape or incest couldn't make it otherwise. (After all, if the fetus is a person, it isn't the person responsible for the rape or the incest, and so his or her killing shouldn't be excused because of the wrong of someone else.)

No matter how you look at it, Cain contradicted himself.

ETA: More clarification: to make what Cain said fit what you're saying (that he supports the criminalization of abortion except in cases of rape and incest), you not only have to ignore what he says about life beginning at conception (a logical problem that anyone who holds that position has--not just Cain) and the words "under any circumstances" and you have to figure that what he's arguing against in insisting that it's the choice of the woman is a straw man proposal that abortion be mandatory for women who are the victim of rape or incest. In fact, the real question is should we grant women even in these special circumstances the legal right to make the choice to have an abortion. He already said he condones abortion "under no circumstances", then completely flip-flopped a moment later.
 
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JoeTheJuggler said:
I agree that he flip-flopped or contradicted himself. But there was nothing evasive about it.
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You're right. I was particularly referring to past interviews regarding his position on abortion but the way he began the interview felt evasive considering he started by saying he doesn't support abortion under any circumstances. But that was my initial knee jerk reaction to the interview.
 
Biscuit said:
I think you guys are comparing apples to oranges.
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Apples are hard and green; oranges are soft and orange.

That is comparing apples to oranges. What we´re doing here is comparing Cain to a GOP politician.
 
Chaos said:
Apples are hard and green; oranges are soft and orange.

That is comparing apples to oranges. What we´re doing here is comparing Cain to a GOP politician.
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No No No. You are doing the same thing they are doing. Comparing apples to oranges.
 
We're getting a bushel full of what the...?
 
He's trying to walk the thin line that conservative Dems have gotten away with for years. "I'm personally against XXXXXX (divorce, same sex marriage, abortion, free rum, nudity, gambling, wife-beating, ...) but think it's not right to mix my personal beliefs with politics."

He's just doing it in his usual ham-fisted way. The problem is that in the GOP you can't walk that line, not with the litmus-testers out there. If Rudy G had stayed alive in 2008, we would've seen him doing an even more entertaining dance.
 
I happened to be have Fox News on today. Cain was being badgered about his abortion position. She finally got him to say he believed abortion should be illegal, "period". But if a family chooses to disobey the law, well, that's that family's decision. "That's all I was saying", Cain explained.

Typical politiker. Sticks his foot in his mouth, then tries to chew it off before anyone notices.
 
He says: "It's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision." "It ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make."

That by itself seems unambiguously pro-choice. However, it was in the context of being asked about a woman who was raped. But before that he said "abortion under no circumstances." So, it is probably going to leave a lot of people scratching their heads.
 
Toontown said:
I happened to be have Fox News on today. Cain was being badgered about his abortion position. She finally got him to say he believed abortion should be illegal, "period". But if a family chooses to disobey the law, well, that's that family's decision. "That's all I was saying", Cain explained.

Typical politiker. Sticks his foot in his mouth, then tries to chew it off before anyone notices.
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I think that this is the beginning of the end of Cain's 15 minutes of fame. People liked him because he didn't talk like a politician, but now he's flipping and flopping and talking out of both sides of his mouth like they all do.
 
As best as I can make out, his position is, "Abortions should not be legal under any circumstances, but if you get raped and choose to have an illegal, back-alley abortion, hey, knock yourself out."
 
A more planned answer by Cain from his campaign website (Specifically addressed, it seems that his interview confused a lot of people)

"Yesterday in an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN, I was asked questions about abortion policy and the role of the President.

I understood the thrust of the question to ask whether that I, as president, would simply "order" people to not seek an abortion.

My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey.

As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story.

I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children.

I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life."
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Personal opinion: it looks to be about as well thought out and nuanced as the rest of his platform.
 
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