• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

conspiracy or joke?

Bell said:
This for real? Or a case of miscommunication? :confused:
Click to expand...

I had serious questions
regarding the movie, but he gives me stupid answers
and after asking he says, he did´nt even saw the
movie. Maybe he just don´t like germans,
i don´t know...
 
Oliver said:
He gives me answers about serious questions
regarding the movie, but gives me stupid answers
and after asking he says, he did´nt even saw the
movie. Maybe he just don´t like germans,
i don´t know...
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, he did answer your questions. In a kind of shortish way as a matter of fact, but he did answer. And wether he saw the movie or not, doesn't matter regarding laws that excist.

ETA: he never said he didn't saw the movie, that was mr. Wong.
 
Bell said:
As a matter of fact, he did answer your questions. In a kind of shortish way as a matter of fact, but he did answer. And wether he saw the movie or not, doesn't matter regarding laws that excist.

ETA: he never said he didn't saw the movie, that was mr. Wong.
Click to expand...

Okay, it´s not very gently, but i seem to
misunderstood his way of answering without
knowing what the movie is about.

ETA: He did

And your way of argumentation looks like
you did´nt saw the movie, right?
Click to expand...
 
Bell said:
As a matter of fact, he did answer your questions. In a kind of shortish way as a matter of fact, but he did answer. And wether he saw the movie or not, doesn't matter regarding laws that excist.
Click to expand...

Short is better in this case. If there is a specific law in which he is interested, I'll be happy to point him in the right direction.

ETA: I DIDN'T see the movie. I see no need to see it unless there is some issue with it that is not clear unless one views it. If that's the case, I'll consider viewing it but you gotta tell me what it is I'm supposed to consider.
 
Last edited:
Rob Lister said:
Short is better in this case. If there is a specific law in which he is interested, I'll be happy to point him in the right direction.
Click to expand...

They´re showing a movement with thousands
of people who want an answer to the law wich
exactly defines it. The RSI refuses to show it
to them, and it´s because it looked so real,
i asked myself if this is a joke or not.

You are the debunkers in here, right?
 
Oliver said:
They´re showing a movement with thousands
of people who want an answer to the law wich
exactly defines it. The RSI refuses to show it
to them, and it´s because it looked so real,
i asked myself if this is a joke or not.

You are the debunkers in here, right?
Click to expand...

Perhaps there is a language barrier. You can read the law regarding taxes here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

If you don't like that site, there are many others. If you like, you can drill down from: http://www.thomas.gov but it's a bit more difficult that way.

What is it about the tax law you'd like to know? I'm not an expert in it but I can lead you in the right direction.
 
Rob Lister said:
Perhaps there is a language barrier. You can read the law regarding taxes here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

If you don't like that site, there are many others. If you like, you can drill down from: http://www.thomas.gov but it's a bit more difficult that way.

What is it about the tax law you'd like to know? I'm not an expert in it but I can lead you in the right direction.
Click to expand...

My english is not good enough to understand
law-codes, otherwise i had researched for my
own. "They", in the movie, say, it´s because
it´s exact definition, that it´s not true to pay
income-taxes. I would explain it better if i
would be able to explain the exact text of
the law. But i did´nt understand that part.

It´s explained at the 16th minute:
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-4023196628588378412&q=america+fascism+duration:long

ETA: and 23.30 min
 
Last edited:
I somehow managed to sit trough this movie.

First an entire hour of tax protester nonsense. Being from Europe I am not that familiar with it, and I always thought that the tax protesters hadn't won a single case. But apparently Whitey Harrell was indeed acquitted of income tax fraud?

Afterwards a bunch of false statements about the Fed (he claims they (+ BOE) are behind the Iraq war) and the usual talk about the NWO...

And unless you guys start voting libertarian you'll all soon be running around with RFID chips implanted and the "international bankers" will have full control over the world.

Btw Oliver: h**p://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
 
Last edited:
Oliver said:
I ´ve found Aron Russos new movie called "America
to Fascism" and i´m not sure if it is really true what
he says about: "There is no law to pay income taxes"
and "A Dollar is 6 cent worth in reality" and "America
is a police state by this definition" ? :confused: :confused: :confused:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-4023196628588378412&q=america+fascism+duration:long

Is this a late april-joke? :boggled:
Click to expand...

Hi Oliver. I haven't seen the movie, and really don't have much interest in it, because this kind of anti-tax stuff has been going around forever (and why not; who likes to pay taxes after all?). So you can dismiss what I have to say if you wish. But I can say that there is indeed a law to pay taxes. (I've heard that a lot of these anti-tax zealots claim that paying federal income taxes is voluntary -- it isn't.) As for "a dollar is worth 6 cents," that's a meaningless statement. In that context, what's 6 cents worth? After all, they're just bits of copper that anyone could dig out of the ground for free. Indeed, why is any currency worth anything, other than the value society place upon it by mutual agreement? A dollar has value because the U.S. government accepts it as payment for the debts you owe it, and since it's backed up by the strongest economy in the history of the world, that's good enough for most people. And as been pointed out, any country with a government in which laws are enforced could be called a police state. But again, we're just playing fast and loose with definitions.

Yes, here in America you have the right to say stuff that is demonstrably untrue. That's why slander and libel are so hard to prove -- not only do the statements have to be false, the person making the statements has to know they were false, AND the person has to be aware that the statements will cause the victim harm. So even if you sue me for libel and prove what I wrote is untrue, I can still get off by claiming I'm too stupid to know any better. I know it sounds like a weird system, but I suppose that's the price we pay for other freedoms we enjoy.
 
Last edited:
Stellafane said:
Hi Oliver. I haven't seen the movie, and really don't have much interest in it, because this kind of anti-tax stuff has been going around forever (and why not; who likes to pay taxes after all?). So you can dismiss what I have to say if you wish. But I can say that there is indeed a law to pay taxes. (I've heard that a lot of these anti-tax zealots claim that paying federal income taxes is voluntary -- it isn't.) As for "a dollar is worth 6 cents," that's a meaningless statement. In that context, what's 6 cents worth? After all, they're just bits of copper that anyone could dig out of the ground for free. Indeed, why is any currency worth anything, other than the value society place upon it by mutual agreement? A dollar has value because the U.S. government accepts it as payment for the debts you owe it, and since it's backed up by the strongest economy in the history of the world, that's good enough for most people. And as been pointed out, any country with a government in which laws are enforced could be called a police state. But again, we're just playing fast and loose with definitions.

Yes, here in America you have the right to say stuff that is demonstrably untrue. That's why slander and libel are so hard to prove -- not only do the statements have to be false, the person making the statements has to know they were false, AND the person has to be aware that the statements will cause the victim harm. So even if you sue me for libel and prove what I wrote is untrue, I can still get off by claiming I'm too stupid to know any better. I know it sounds like a weird system, but I suppose that's the price we pay for other freedoms we enjoy.
Click to expand...

I don´t want to criticize another countries
laws, but i don´t wonder right now, that there
is so much CT stuff within america.

If you guys in here really wan´t to fight that
CT´s stuff, you should get a law for it. It´s
confusing for people with such laws against
lying around, because they really think it must
be true. :blush: ETA... when they don´t
know that america has no such rules...
 
Last edited:
Oliver said:
I don´t want to criticize another countries
laws, but i don´t wonder right now, that there
is so much CT stuff within america.

If you guys in here really wan´t to fight that
CT´s stuff, you should get a law for it. It´s
confusing for people with such laws against
lying around, because they really think it must
be true. :blush:
Click to expand...

(Bolding mine.)

For better or for worse -- mostly better in my view -- that's not how it works in the U.S.A. Stated very simplistically, our laws are not designed to protect the majority opinion. They are specifically designed to protect the people with whom the majority disagrees most violently. That way, when we see that the rights of these people are still protected even though they're spouting loathsome and stupid nonsense, we can rest assured that our own freedoms are still intact.

That's the ultimate irony of the CT movement, one they seem utterly inacapable of grasping. Their very existence -- and the fact that a wildly inaccurate and delusional movie like "Loose Change" can be shown without threat of being shut down -- proves that we cannot possibly live under the kind of repressive government they claim we do. I can't blame other countries for thinking this is very strange. But as a citizen of the U.S., believe it or not I find the existence of CT movements somewhat comforting -- in a rather irritating way, of course!
 
Oliver said:
If you guys in here really wan´t to fight that
CT´s stuff, you should get a law for it. It´s
confusing for people with such laws against
lying around, because they really think it must
be true. :blush: ETA... when they don´t
know that america has no such rules...
Click to expand...


I think you need to understand something about America...

You know how you hear all that stuff about them being the "home of freedom"? Cheesy as it sounds, it's all true.

Countries like yours or mine, although free societies, have quite a few laws designed to prevent or contain certain things that are allowed in the US. In the US, because freedom is so important, they are happy to put up with more in order to keep things free.

Personally I find it a bit odd, but you have to consider where they came from. Their country was born directly out of revolution and overthrow of what they considered to be a tyrannical regime. As such they're none to keen to ever see that back again.

In contrast, neither of our countries have recent revolutions in our history. In Germany, for example, they have the recent shadow of Nazism - so in your country some things like Nazism are illegal. Here, that's not illegal, because it doesn't have the same significant place in our history.

It's hard to accept, given US foreign policy, and given critical media coverage (especially in europe) but "as-a-society" the United States prizes freedom VERY highly. I would say more highly than most other countries.

Of course, you could argue that's because they've never learned the need for a balance between freedom and security (and they might be learning that now!), or you could argue they have it right.

Just thought it'd be important for you to understand that's why things like Loose Change and these other documentaries are allowed to be made and shown.

And apologies to any of our American friends who aren't impressed by my gross over-simplification of their nation...:boxedin:

-Andrew
 
Oliver, this sounds like a old exersice in the anti-tax protesters handbook. In effect, they are saying that the only "legal" money allowed by the US Consitution as legal tender is specie, or "hard" money, that is gold or silver coins and that the US Currency is not legal for debts or payments, so taxes should not be owed.

What the guy doesn't point out in his film is that every time that they have tried to take this argument to the US Courts, they get smacked down, usually with a fine/jail term to go along with it. The argument has been tossed out of many courts, but the anti-tax woos continue merrily along....

This used to be connected with the "Militia" movement in the 1990's, but has faded away from the front pages as have the Militias...

Here is some good basic info on the US Anti-tax movement and includes a number of references, so I hope this will help answer your questions.

http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/taxprot.htm
 
gumboot said:
I think you need to understand something about America...

You know how you hear all that stuff about them being the "home of freedom"? Cheesy as it sounds, it's all true.

Countries like yours or mine, although free societies, have quite a few laws designed to prevent or contain certain things that are allowed in the US. In the US, because freedom is so important, they are happy to put up with more in order to keep things free.

Personally I find it a bit odd, but you have to consider where they came from. Their country was born directly out of revolution and overthrow of what they considered to be a tyrannical regime. As such they're none to keen to ever see that back again.

In contrast, neither of our countries have recent revolutions in our history. In Germany, for example, they have the recent shadow of Nazism - so in your country some things like Nazism are illegal. Here, that's not illegal, because it doesn't have the same significant place in our history.

It's hard to accept, given US foreign policy, and given critical media coverage (especially in europe) but "as-a-society" the United States prizes freedom VERY highly. I would say more highly than most other countries.

Of course, you could argue that's because they've never learned the need for a balance between freedom and security (and they might be learning that now!), or you could argue they have it right.

Just thought it'd be important for you to understand that's why things like Loose Change and these other documentaries are allowed to be made and shown.

And apologies to any of our American friends who aren't impressed by my gross over-simplification of their nation...:boxedin:

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Thank you, Andrew and Stellafane - i never saw it
that way and i feel confused right now when i think
about it.

My understanding of freedom is to have some kind of
straight rules for not telling BS, so it´s easier to differ
between BS and real Issues. Otherwise you never could
tell what´s true and what not - without extensive
background-knowledge and education.

I mean, if you grew up with parents who believe in Ufos,
it´s hard or impossible to get this out of your head,
even if you´re a sceptic.

I don´t know the exact translation for cheesy,
but it´s sounds exactly the way you brought it
up in context. :D

ETA: Thank you, Hutch. It was my failure - i really
thought it must be true if they can claim it without
beeing worried to step into trouble. But thank you for
your description, anyway. :o
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom