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Conservatives and climate change

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I'm curious how "denying" the accuracy of the temperature record makes you a "denialist". This doesn't sound like science, this sounds very much like religion. In science people are free to question the validity of something without reprisal. It's within religion that "dissenters" are usually stoned and cast out.

Because when you go out and gather results that you loudly proclaim will prove a warming bias in the temperature record, then those results are written up and analysed in a peer reviewed paper which concludes that it actually shows a slight cooling bias, then you reject the conclusions and deny the results, that makes you a denier.
 
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Definitely lacking a sense of humor there. You in pretty deep with the cult, I take it?

No, you clearly missed the point. You're not funny. Your "humour" is not at all humorous. If you want humour then karate_kid or whatever his name is leaves you flailing in his dust, that's proper satire. What you're doing is more akin to vaudeville.
 
No, all you did was show he participated in a scientific study and then objected to the methodology.
No, that is NOT what happened. He participated in and approved of the study methodology. So much so that he said he would accept whatever result that methodology produced no matter the outcome. Good for him.

Subsequently the outcome was AGW was valid and that climategate was hooey.

Then, AND ONLY THEN, did he reject the BEST project. Bad for him.

Is that chronology clear? If so, that is by definition putting ideology ahead of science.
 
1. If the aggrieved party is MAD magazine, inc., yes, it would be required to interview MAD executives.
2. The ONLY way to determine if Mann and Jones withheld data and calculations from McIntyre would be to interview Mann, Jones, AND McIntrye, or to review their correspondence.

i see you still did bring up a warmth period similar to the current one. you merely made it up then...
 
1. If the aggrieved party is MAD magazine, inc., yes, it would be required to interview MAD executives.
2. The ONLY way to determine if Mann and Jones withheld data and calculations from McIntyre would be to interview Mann, Jones, AND McIntrye, or to review their correspondence.

also, if that one guy got the data or not, does not change the science at all.
 
No, that is NOT what happened. He participated in and approved of the study methodology. So much so that he said he would accept whatever result that methodology produced no matter the outcome. Good for him.

Subsequently the outcome was AGW was valid and that climategate was hooey.

Then, AND ONLY THEN, did he reject the BEST project. Bad for him.

Is that chronology clear? If so, that is by definition putting ideology ahead of science.

That's your claim but you refuse to substantiate it with evidence so I reject it.

That's not denial, it's skeptical.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you may well be right. But you refuse to cite what was specifically said so I don't know what motivations to ascribe to the refusal. They may be valid or they may be invalid. Your claims they were invalid are meaningless.

Make sense:confused:
 
Personally, I think he is simply a contrarian. And I think he does it because it drives a lot of traffic to his site. Conservatives have accepted denialism as their ideological party plank and that will mean millions of customers to anyone with scientific credentials who wishes to use those credentials to pad their skepticism to the scientific consensus.

That may well be the case. I really don't know. All I know is I've never seen any quotes from this man that would make me think "Oh boy, we've got a certifiable wacko on our hands".

I'm not saying the general public is all that bright either, but he does run the most popular "climate science" website on the internet. That doesn't make him not a wacko but it sure means he's going to be held accountable if he did say something completely "anti-science". He's a meteorologist not an astrologist, trying to make them out to be one in the same is misleading.
 
Because when you go out and gather results that you loudly proclaim will prove a warming bias in the temperature record, then those results are written up and analysed in a peer reviewed paper which concludes that it actually shows a slight cooling bias, then you reject the conclusions and deny the results, that makes you a denier.

No it doesn't. Not if you have a valid objection for rejecting the conclusions.

It's pretty simple, if I say "I'll agree with whatever you come up with" and then you say "OK, I'm adding 2 degrees to everything because 2 is my favorite number" guess what? That's not "denial", that a damn good reason to reject your results.

eta: sorry, I read what SezMe posted again and I see he approved of the methodology and then rejected it. So my example doesn't really make sense. Unless he agreed to something and then realized his error. If the methodology is fundamentally flawed then it doesn't matter if he agreed or not. I'm still waiting to read why he rejected it though.



And what does "denying" US temperature record because of their methodology have to do with "denial" or being anti-science? I'm just curious if you think Sir Isaac Newton was a "denier" or "anti-science". Do you know what he "denied"? Do you have any idea what his hobbies were? (he's often considered one of the greatest scientists ever and from what you've described he's anti-science and a "denier")

Have fun trying to rationalize using generalizations and labels to describe people. It makes you look foolish to any objective observer. Stick to shooting down their arguments with facts. Just a suggestion. I know it isn't easy, and I have trouble at times, but I do try my best. But I'm just a better person in general so, you know, whatever :p
 
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Definitely lacking a sense of humor there. You in pretty deep with the cult, I take it?

It's always the unfunny people who claim everyone around them lacks a sense of humor for not laughing at their jokes.

The obvious reason seems to escape them.
 
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He's a meteorologist not an astrologist, trying to make them out to be one in the same is misleading.

Speaking of misleading ... He's not a meteorologist, he's a TV weather forecaster. Big difference. His only "qualification" is an AMS Seal of Approval (a discontinued credential that does not require a bachelor's or higher degree in atmospheric science or meteorology from an accredited college/university)
 
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to Malcolm Kirkpatrick
i see you still didn't bring up a warmth period similar to the current one. you merely made it up then...

just tell me wich warmth period you think was similar to the curent one.
most likely i will be able to show you how it was NOT similar at all.

you seem to be very convinced and made the claim, but you fail to back it up afte i asked now already 3 times. why?
 
Speaking of misleading ... He's not a meteorologist, he's a TV weather forecaster. Big difference. His only "qualification" is an AMS Seal of Approval (a discontinued credential that does not require a bachelor's or higher degree in atmospheric science or meteorology from an accredited college/university)

Lying about your credentials is SOP for science deniers.
 
Malcolm Kirkpatrick asked me to "read the material at the link" I provided, and claimed that his conspiracy allegation was "well-substantiated in the emails."

I demonstrated that, contrary to Malcolm Kirkpatrick's claim, the conspiracy he alleges was denied by the EPA web page I had cited.
No, it was not. "Not true" applied to manipulation of the data. Read what they said. Yes, they mention "conspiracy" in the context of the response to data manipulation, but "Not true" applies to the charge of data manipulation.
 
No, it was not. "Not true" applied to manipulation of the data. Read what they said. Yes, they mention "conspiracy" in the context of the response to data manipulation, but "Not true" applies to the charge of data manipulation.

Hrmmm..

EPA said:
Fact: Climate change is real and it is happening now. The U.S. Global Change Research Program, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) have each independently concluded that warming of the climate system in recent decades is "unequivocal." This conclusion is not drawn from any one source of data but is based on multiple lines of evidence, including three worldwide temperature datasets showing nearly identical warming trends as well as numerous other independent indicators of global warming (e.g., rising sea levels, shrinking Arctic sea ice). Some people have "cherry-picked" a limited selection of CRU email statements to draw broad, unsubstantiated conclusions about the validity of all climate science.

Seriously, do you really believe there is a global conspiracy involving pretty much all climatologists, all major scientific organizations, the UN and thousands of other people? Because that's what it takes for your allegations to be true.

If you really believe that, you are beyond help.
 
Seriously, do you really believe there is a global conspiracy involving pretty much all climatologists, all major scientific organizations, the UN and thousands of other people? Because that's what it takes for your allegations to be true. If you really believe that, you are beyond help.
"Not true" applied to the accusation of data manipulation, not to the (demonstrated, by the emails) conspiracies to withhold data, bias the peer-review process, evade FOI, and delete emails. These things they discussed and encouraged each other to do. Demonstrably.
I recommend the first quoted material in this Climate Audit post:
Generally speaking, the paleoclimatology community has not recognized the validity of the [McIntyre and McKitrick] papers and has tended dismiss their results as being developed by biased amateurs. The paleoclimatology community seems to be tightly coupled as indicated by our social network analysis, has rallied around the [Mann] position, and has issued an extensive series of alternative assessments most of which appear to support the conclusions of MBH98/99… Our findings from this analysis suggest that authors in the area of paleoclimate studies are closely connected and thus ‘independent studies’ may not be as independent as they might appear on the surface.

It is important to note the isolation of the paleoclimate community; even though they rely heavily on statistical methods they do not seem to be interacting with the statistical community. Additionally, we judge that the sharing of research materials, data and results was haphazardly and grudgingly done. In this case we judge that there was too much reliance on peer review, which was not necessarily independent.

Based on the literature we have reviewed, there is no overarching consensus on [Mann's work]. As analyzed in our social network, there is a tightly knit group of individuals who passionately believe in their thesis. However, our perception is that this group has a self-reinforcing feedback mechanism and, moreover, the work has been sufficiently politicized that they can hardly reassess their public positions without losing credibility.

It is clear that many of the proxies are re-used in most of the papers. It is not surprising that the papers would obtain similar results and so cannot really claim to be independent verifications.”
 
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