• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Split Thread Conservative Voices (Split from Muller Investigation)

Mumbles said:
Last I heard of Project Veritas, their edited videos were being used by prosecutors in the J20 trials - which anyone can look up.

The charges were just about all dropped, by the way, but not before the plaintiffs put a lot of time and money into defending themselves. And that's the point, it's not to get at any sort of truth, it's simply to cause as much harm to perceived "enemies" as possible out of sheer malice, by inevitably lying.
Click to expand...

Yes, the desire is to harm perceived enemies for daring to do anything O'Keefe's backers don't like, usually by targeting small, minor officials that don't have the resources to fight back. Then they magnify their level in their fear-creating machine (notice how this person is referred to as a 'DEEP STATE OPERATIVE' in the headlines).

The harassment usually will start soon after. In addition to online and in-person attacks there is always some petty official willing to play along and start some kind of 'ethics investigation' based on O'Keefe's deceptive videos.

O'Keefe is like a cop who runs down two pedestrians with his patrol car and shoots another innocent person to catch a litterbug.
 
On Sept. 4 a Bloomberg columnist wrote this:

But make no mistake: The outcome of this confirmation process is forgone. It was over a long time ago; maybe as early as 1982, when Kavanaugh was only 17.
Click to expand...

Here's a potential upside, though: Maybe, having achieved its aim of getting a conservative majority on the court (like we didn't have that in the Rehnquist years :rolleyes:), the political machinery will spit Trump out of public life.

ETA: I just realized I posted this in the wrong thread. Carry on.
 
Last edited:
The Shrike said:
That's what I don't get about this thread:

"This forum has turned into a progressive, lefty echo chamber."
"Do you have a specific example?"
"Yeah, feminism has gone way too far."
"In what way has it gone too far?"
"The hats. It's the hats."

What am I missing, River? Help me not strawman you so we can actually discuss some stuff.
Click to expand...

Hardly what I've said. Also, I posted photos of women in pussy costumes, not hats. Also an article where some women had posed nude screaming in protest. IMHO not a good face for feminism. This has nothing to do with the left lean of the forum.

If you'd like an example of that take a read on the scotus thread or the mueller thread.
 
River said:
If you'd like an example of that take a read on the scotus thread or the mueller thread.
Click to expand...

those are two completely different threads: one deals with a nomination process, the other is a criminal investigation.
The first is inherently biased, because of the ideological bend of almost all nominees.
The second has a much higher standard of evidence required, and it shows in the responses: notably, only you ignore facts about the Russia investigation you don't like.

It shows a bias on your part, not the forum, that you think both threads are equally compromised by ideology.
 
River said:
Also, I posted photos of women in pussy costumes, not hats.
Click to expand...
Yes, some people wear silly costumes to protest. Next?

River said:
Also an article where some women had posed nude screaming in protest.
Click to expand...
It's been my experience that the more extreme the demonstration the longer people have been demonstrating about it without the needle budging much on the issue. So when I see "crazy" protesters, I invest extra care to understand why they feel the way they do, regardless of whether I agree with them. Have you considered what motivated those women to protest nude?

River said:
If you'd like an example of that take a read on the scotus thread or the mueller thread.
Click to expand...
Well, lessee, here:

A. Kavanaugh has had multiple accusers come forward to say he's done some awful things to women in fits of uncontrollable insobriety. If true, they should be non-starters for a Supreme Court confirmation both because of the severity of the claims themselves and the pattern of covering up for transgressions of cronies. So let's investigate that.

B. Mueller investigation has led to multiple indictments, guilty pleas, etc. You may select any metaphor you like, e.g., this witch hunt has found the coven, eating that nothingburger could win you a prize at the Big Texan, etc. Let's complete this ongoing and thusfar extraordinarily productive investigation.


Are A and B leftist attitudes?
 
The Shrike said:
Yes, some people wear silly costumes to protest. Next?


It's been my experience that the more extreme the demonstration the longer people have been demonstrating about it without the needle budging much on the issue. So when I see "crazy" protesters, I invest extra care to understand why they feel the way they do, regardless of whether I agree with them. Have you considered what motivated those women to protest nude?
Click to expand...

So lets protest mens rights with a huge penis costume. I'm sure it will denote tone of the issue, and make sure that the issue I'm trying to address is taken seriously. Do you think pussy costumes is a positive step for feminism? Screaming nude at the top of your lungs? IMHO feminism is an important topic.

Is it your opinion that these costumes and actions of posing nude and screaming at the top of your lungs helps feminism? Promotes it? Or would that help degrade the cause because people won't take it as seriously?

Would you be more apt to have a serious conversation about something with someone in a pussy suit, or a business suit? Or someone screaming nude at the top of their lungs at you? I do not disagree AT ALL with their protest, but do think the form or style of protest does not denote a serious tone, nor does it help people take the issue seriously. Opinions will vary.

Well, lessee, here:

A. Kavanaugh has had multiple accusers come forward to say he's done some awful things to women in fits of uncontrollable insobriety. If true, they should be non-starters for a Supreme Court confirmation both because of the severity of the claims themselves and the pattern of covering up for transgressions of cronies. So let's investigate that.

B. Mueller investigation has led to multiple indictments, guilty pleas, etc. You may select any metaphor you like, e.g., this witch hunt has found the coven, eating that nothingburger could win you a prize at the Big Texan, etc. Let's complete this ongoing and thusfar extraordinarily productive investigation.


Are A and B leftist attitudes?
Click to expand...

None of those are attitudes. You simply described the cases from your perspective. I could do the same, would it be considered the same lean as yours?

I may be missing your point here. However, If you cannot see a left lean on the forum -- I cannot help you see it.
 
Last edited:
River said:
Don't make fun of my button! :o

In all seriousness; Do pussy costumes and screaming at the top of your lungs nude help feminism? Does it hurt it? You already know my opinion.
Click to expand...

Their protests are clearly on your mind. You are talking about it, soliciting other people's opinions, encouraging discussion. It seems to be working.
 
River said:
So lets protest mens rights with a huge penis costume. I'm sure it will denote tone of the issue, and make sure that the issue I'm trying to address is taken seriously. Do you think pussy costumes is a positive step for feminism? Screaming nude at the top of your lungs? IMHO feminism is an important topic.

Is it your opinion that these costumes and actions of posing nude and screaming at the top of your lungs helps feminism? Promotes it? Or would that help degrade the cause because people won't take it as seriously?

Would you be more apt to have a serious conversation about something with someone in a pussy suit, or a business suit? Or someone screaming nude at the top of their lungs at you? I do not disagree AT ALL with their protest, but do think the form or style of protest does not denote a serious tone, nor does it help people take the issue seriously. Opinions will vary.
Click to expand...
As with most things in life, context matters.

A protest march is a time and place to attract attention through spectacle. A silly costume or a clever sign is a very appropriate way to deliver a quick message very quickly or, more likely, merely show support for a particular cause. In that situation, a business suit would not only not be helpful, it could arguably be inappropriate, depending on the situation.

A formal debate, interview, or discussion panel, on the other hand, is not the time and place for spectacle. That is the time to seriously discuss issues where a more formal appearance is a better choice.
 
River said:
So lets protest mens rights with a huge penis costume.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure which rights you think men have been denied relative to women, but whatever floats your boat, man.

River said:
Is it your opinion that these costumes and actions of posing nude and screaming at the top of your lungs helps feminism? Promotes it? Or would that help degrade the cause because people won't take it as seriously?
Click to expand...
I assume the crazy costumes are intended to draw attention to the protest. It's a protest. It has four objectives: 1) gain attention, 2) disrupt some normal order of things, 3) get people attracted by the disruption to investigate the issue, and 4) bring about some desired societal change.

At protests people wear crazy costumes, display funny signs, walk around on stilts, play music, bang pots and pans, etc. So?

River said:
Would you be more apt to have a serious conversation about something with someone in a pussy suit, or a business suit?
Click to expand...
False premise that someone in a pussy suit is attempting to engage in serious conversation. Bonus false premise that while someone is outside making noise in a funny suit that there aren't also people inside having those serious conversations.

More to the point though, in approximately what year in US history did serious people in their business suits and sensible shoes began having serious conversations about the rights of women in this country? It is now 2018. Subtract the first date from 2018. That's how long the business suit approach alone has been insufficient to secure those rights.

River said:
Or someone screaming nude at the top of their lungs at you?
Click to expand...
That stuff shocks me, too. Again, that's the point of a protest. Why would women engage in such an extreme protest? Well, women face a much greater risk of death at the hands of abusive men in their lives than we men do. Only a tiny percentage of women ever get justice for the crimes committed against them. Seems to me those women are protesting life and death issues for themselves, their daughters, and their granddaughters.

River said:
None of those are attitudes. You simply described the cases from your perspective. I could do the same, would it be considered the same lean as yours?
Click to expand...
Re: SCOTUS and Mueller probe, that's the point. We have issues. Let's investigate them. Anyone with a position other than that is not thinking critically/following the rule of law.

River said:
I may be missing your point here. However, If you cannot see a left lean on the forum -- I cannot help you see it.
Click to expand...
That's why I was interested in your definition of left and right. I haven't seen anything in this thread on relative power of the federal government compared to states, for example. Are we talking about authoritarianism versus shared governance? I don't know.
 
Matthew Best said:
But why would you compare women wearing hats with ears to men wearing penis costumes? It makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

Did you see the images? We're not talking about cat ears, here.

acbytesla said:
They do look ridiculous. But so what?
Click to expand...

Well, it's more difficult to be taken seriously when you look ridiculous.

Yes it is. But I was trying to be pithy. Something that would fit on a bumper sticker.
Click to expand...

I can relate.
 
The Shrike said:
I'm not sure which rights you think men have been denied relative to women, but whatever floats your boat, man.


I assume the crazy costumes are intended to draw attention to the protest. It's a protest. It has four objectives: 1) gain attention, 2) disrupt some normal order of things, 3) get people attracted by the disruption to investigate the issue, and 4) bring about some desired societal change.

At protests people wear crazy costumes, display funny signs, walk around on stilts, play music, bang pots and pans, etc. So?


False premise that someone in a pussy suit is attempting to engage in serious conversation. Bonus false premise that while someone is outside making noise in a funny suit that there aren't also people inside having those serious conversations.

More to the point though, in approximately what year in US history did serious people in their business suits and sensible shoes began having serious conversations about the rights of women in this country? It is now 2018. Subtract the first date from 2018. That's how long the business suit approach alone has been insufficient to secure those rights.


That stuff shocks me, too. Again, that's the point of a protest. Why would women engage in such an extreme protest? Well, women face a much greater risk of death at the hands of abusive men in their lives than we men do. Only a tiny percentage of women ever get justice for the crimes committed against them. Seems to me those women are protesting life and death issues for themselves, their daughters, and their granddaughters.


Re: SCOTUS and Mueller probe, that's the point. We have issues. Let's investigate them. Anyone with a position other than that is not thinking critically/following the rule of law.


That's why I was interested in your definition of left and right. I haven't seen anything in this thread on relative power of the federal government compared to states, for example. Are we talking about authoritarianism versus shared governance? I don't know.
Click to expand...

The only thing we seem to be disagreeing on here is the premise that these costumes or nude displays somehow help the cause or help feminism. I would completely disagree with that concept. In fact, I think it may be one of the things that changes peoples perceptions on feminism in a bad way.

I'm all for anyone's right to protest. (as long as it's done legally)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom