Split Thread Conservative Voices (Split from Muller Investigation)

[LSSBB]

There's a fine line between that and the Democrats obsessively needing to have the absolute nicest possible moral high ground from which to watch their defeats from, save in the knowledge that they didn't dirty their souls.

In politics "Good" is a very hard to define term and we could argue its exact nuances all day but in the broad strokes I'm going the classic trope of... good is not nice.

And the Dems could do well to sometimes, sometimes, act a little bit less like a man who's happily chopped of his own balls and given them to his wife to keep in her purse.

Good is not nice ultimately bears fruition in Illinois and Cook County. Democrats have a lock. No niceness to it. The state is staggering under a poorly engineered over-generous pension system, ever increasing taxes and an increasing number of people fleeing the state, if just to neighboring states. My unwanted non-Democrat advice: be careful to focus on the Democrat good, for the people focus, and not government for government's sake.

 

[Cabbage]

It's interesting that the main response to "Democrats/Progressives should drop the identity politics and get a new message" has been "Well, Republicans/conservatives do it too". It appears to be intended as a counter to the original, but it isn't. Both could very well be true: we could live in a world where Republicans/conservatives do it too and it would also be in Democrats'/progressives' best interests to stop (or at least tone it down).

Do you really think playing victimhood narratives for persons of privilege is equivalent in any way to playing victimhood narratives for actual victims?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Do you really think playing victimhood narratives for persons of privilege is equivalent in any way to playing victimhood narratives for actual victims?

In politics? Yes, to a certain extent.

 

[Belz...]

What's wrong with that? Do pussies frighten you?

Personally, I think they look ridiculous and a tad insane wearing those things, just as much as men wearing penis costumes would.

One is trying to protect its privileged position in society and one simply wants equality.

I think that might be a little over-simplified.

 

[Mumbles]

True. The bias against people of color is not just perception, it's been statistically validated. It is terrible to not only have to live with that, it's also terrible to have your very real perceptions be dismissed as "victimization narrative". Such dismissive attitudes hinder any real work to address the root causes of the very real bias that exists.

Very true.

Something I didn't say: These are tough lessons to hear when you first do, but the point, much like the long list of "be careful" lists that women get, is to avoid becoming a victim. You will be judged much more harshly than "little billy", so don't follow along when he does something stupid that will get him into trouble. Police May well shoot you for some absurd reason, so be careful around them. People will call you "Affirmative Action" if you get promoted before they do: understand that in reality, you probably did vastly better than they did, don't internalize their nonsense.

 

[Matthew Best]

Personally, I think they look ridiculous and a tad insane wearing those things, just as much as men wearing penis costumes would.

But why would you compare women wearing hats with ears to men wearing penis costumes? It makes no sense at all.

 

[Mumbles]

And now, here's a real example of a "victimhood narrative", a pioneer as far as the modern GOP goes (but not at all as far as actual US history):

 

[Beelzebuddy]

But why would you compare women wearing hats with ears to men wearing penis costumes? It makes no sense at all.

Especially when you can already tell they're dicks.

 

[lomiller]

Identity politics meaning: i·den·ti·ty pol·i·tics
noun a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.

However, your definition definitely says a lot about your perspective.

Even by your definition it doesn’t seem like Democrats are the guilty party here.
a) Republicans establish their own “identity”
b) Republicans policies drive away anyone who doesn’t match that identity
c) The people driven away from the Republican party vote Democrat
d) Republicans try to shift the blame by accusing these groups of “identity politics” because they are not willing to vote Republican.

 

[lomiller]

The reality is that those complaining that Progressives/Democrats are using identity politics are actually complaining that the bigotry of the Right Wing is being called out. They should just say, "stop pointing out our racism/homophobia/misogyny," at least that's honest.

ding ding ding we have a winner

 

[River]

James O’Keefe has zero credibility, if not less. He creates actual fake news. Anything that cites Project Veritas as a legitimate source of information can be safely dismissed.

Apparently one of the employees caught on tape no longer works for the justice dept and is being investigated for ethics violations? Seems like it may have been credible this time.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/24/activist-federal-staffer-no-longer-at-doj
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c26f48-bc30-11e8-be70-52bd11fe18af_story.html

 

[The Shrike]

Okay, so what I'm reading is that the pink hats looked silly during the 2017 Women's March (which was the largest single-day protest in US history). That's what feminism gone "too far" means: pink hats.

Again, do we remember why the marchers wore "pussy" hats?

 

[kookbreaker]

Apparently one of the employees caught on tape no longer works for the justice dept and is being investigated for ethics violations? Seems like it may have been credible this time.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/24/activist-federal-staffer-no-longer-at-doj
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c26f48-bc30-11e8-be70-52bd11fe18af_story.html

Or she may have left with O'Keefe's latest slander attempt being that last straw of harassment against her. Its not like the psycho-right was leaving her alone prior to O'Keefe's latest editing stunt.

 

[Minoosh]

In the face of the crisis in Syria (exacerbated in no small part by the US), we do less, not more than before.

The googling I did reflected a distinction between permanent immigrants and refugees, which might be mutually exclusive. The countries with the most refugees at present are in the Middle East.

If I'm reading the chart right. Two different charts actually.

 

[Mumbles]

Or she may have left with O'Keefe's latest slander attempt being that last straw of harassment against her. Its not like the psycho-right was leaving her alone prior to O'Keefe's latest editing stunt.

Last I heard of Project Veritas, their edited videos were being used by prosecutors in the J20 trials - which anyone can look up.

The charges were just about all dropped, by the way, but not before the plaintiffs put a lot of time and money into defending themselves. And that's the point, it's not to get at any sort of truth, it's simply to cause as much harm to perceived "enemies" as possible out of sheer malice, by inevitably lying.

(And what are they saying about Kavanaugh's accusers right now? Always projection.)

 

[Mumbles]

My understanding is that they don't even aspire to control the whole country. They're just sick of having to be subject to and fight against the systemic white power structures which still exist in our society, and they want to go do their own thing, separately.

THis is a large part of why Elijah Mohammed and Farrakhan were upset with Malcolm X before he quit the NOI entirely - aside from the fame and backing he was getting, they were also upset with his forays into politics. And yeah, at the time they were far more about seperatism than legal supremacism.

(I still have many, many issues with the NOI in general, and Farrakhan in particular, though..but as I always say, there's simply no equivalent to the KKK among any other racial group in the US in terms of terrorism, peak political power, membership, or lasting influence.)

 

[acbytesla]

What's wrong with that? Do pussies frighten you?

Personally, I think they look ridiculous and a tad insane wearing those things, just as much as men wearing penis costumes would.

They do look ridiculous. But so what? It doesn't make the women's demands for equality and freedom to control their own sexual choices outrageous.

One is trying to protect its privileged position in society and one simply wants equality.

think that might be a little over-simplified.

Yes it is. But I was trying to be pithy. Something that would fit on a bumper sticker.

 

[Cabbage]

In politics? Yes, to a certain extent.

Really?

So you think lying and pandering to someone as if they're a victim (when they're NOT) is equivalent (ethically and otherwise) to pandering truthfully to an actual victim as if they're a victim?

That's...interesting.

 

[The Shrike]

They do look ridiculous. But so what? It doesn't make the women's demands for equality and freedom to control their own sexual choices outrageous.

That's what I don't get about this thread:

"This forum has turned into a progressive, lefty echo chamber."
"Do you have a specific example?"
"Yeah, feminism has gone way too far."
"In what way has it gone too far?"
"The hats. It's the hats."

What am I missing, River? Help me not strawman you so we can actually discuss some stuff.

 

[Upchurch]

Apparently one of the employees caught on tape no longer works for the justice dept and is being investigated for ethics violations? Seems like it may have been credible this time.

Wait for it. O'Keefe's web of video edited lies sometimes takes a while to fall apart, but they have not yet failed to do so. Maybe this will be the first, but it would be the first.