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Consciousness

If history has taught us anything in the billion previous "consciousness" discussions about 90% of this discussion is going to be:

People claiming we have a consciou-soul-ness: "I'm going to need everyone else to define/explain to me whatever it is I'm actually talking about."
 
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JoeMorgue said:
If history has taught us anything in the billion previous "consciousness" discussions about 90% of this discussion is going to be:

People claiming we have a consciou-soul-ness: "I'm going to need everyone else to define/explain to me whatever it is I'm actually talking about."
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you seem to be focused on the labels rather than the content.

Forget the labels, they aren't the important thing.
 
p0lka said:
you seem to be focused on the labels rather than the content.

Forget the labels, they aren't the important thing.
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Fine. Again given the fact that I have had this exact discussion many, many, many, many times I have zero doubt where it will go, but here goes.

1. "Consciousness" to mean the basic functioning of a neural system to include self-awareness. I.E. everything that actually exists to be explained.

2. "Consciousness" as an obvious code-word for soul.

1 is explained to reasonable, not 100% complete but reasonable levels of completeness. Enough so that any existential crisis over it has an ulterior motive. A LOT of people will now very angrily and very loudly deny this via a script I've already memorized, screaming that "science doesn't understand consciousness!" because they don't recognize that science advanced after 1700 and demand I spoon-feed them the entire history of the science of neuroscience at a level of multiple college degrees just to get to them back to an accepting basic reality, which they won't do anyway. So I will not be doing this.

2 is meaningless bunk that doesn't need to be explained because it doesn't exist and there is absolutely no reason to think it does.
 
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Thermal said:
Seems to me that something utterly unique and without comparison in the universe as we know it and is the totality of our self awareness and existence qualifies as "special".
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We are not unique. Other consciousnesses exist. Damn all special about us.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Fine. Again given the fact that I have had this exact discussion many, many, many, many times I have zero doubt where it will go, but here goes.

1. "Consciousness" to mean the basic functioning of a neural system to include self-awareness. I.E. everything that actually exists to be explained.

2. "Consciousness" as an obvious code-word for soul.

1 is explained to reasonable, not 100% complete but reasonable levels of completeness. Enough so that any existential crisis over it has an ulterior motive. A LOT of people will now very angrily and very loudly deny this via a script I've already memorized, screaming that "science doesn't understand consciousness!" because they don't recognize that science advanced after 1700 and demand I spoon-feed them the entire history of the science of neuroscience at a level of multiple college degrees just to get to them back to an accepting basic reality, which they won't do anyway. So I will not be doing this.

2 is meaningless bunk that doesn't need to be explained because it doesn't exist and there is absolutely no reason to think it does.
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Na you seem to be still fixating on the consciousness and/or soul,
forget the labels.
 
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p0lka said:
Na you seem to be still fixating on the consciousness and/or soul,
forget the labels.
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*Rolls eyes* Not playing silly word games.

Tell me what you think exists, and I'll tell you if I agree or not.
 
Scorpion said:
I am a survivor of chemical imbalance of the brain, and I can assure you I had the last word in my mind, and not my chemicals.
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For most of my life I have frequently and regularly instigated chemical imbalances in my brain via the introduction of foreign substances. I have survived every time. It is really no big deal
 
p0lka said:
It's something we experience, it's a real experience. How it comes from machinery is the mystery.
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You should know by now that what you experience is often not what's actually going on. Consciousness is such a fragile and point phenomenon that it's pretty easy to see how we'd misinterpret what it is.
 
JoeMorgue said:
*Rolls eyes* Not playing silly word games.

Tell me what you think exists, and I'll tell you if I agree or not.
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As I posted earlier re: our internal experience.

p0lka said:
It's something we experience, it's a real experience. How it comes from machinery is the mystery.
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There is a real internal experience, You seem to be not accepting that.
 
Belz... said:
You should know by now that what you experience is often not what's actually going on. Consciousness is such a fragile and point phenomenon that it's pretty easy to see how we'd misinterpret what it is.
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I agree, but being able to think about ones experience in the first place is a mysterious thing.

Edit: by mysterious I mean not currently explained by science, I'm not promoting magic or anything.
 
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p0lka said:
oh, that's a wee bit circular.
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*Sighs* Are we really playing this game?

Your mental process is WHAT YOUR BRAIN DOES.

Your pancreas creates insulin. If I tell you this you don't go "Oh that's a wee bit circular?"

Because you don't think a soul is hiding in insulin production.

It's why people have big showy existential crisis about not knowing every single part of how their minds work but not other parts of their body work.
 
JoeMorgue said:
*Sighs* Are we really playing this game?

Your mental process is WHAT YOUR BRAIN DOES.

Your pancreas creates insulin. If I tell you this you don't go "Oh that's a wee bit circular?"

Because you don't think a soul is hiding in insulin production.

It's why people have big showy existential crisis about not knowing every single part of how their minds work but not other parts of their body work.
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Is the thumb a finger?

Is the answer that question have any deeper reality than how we identify and name body parts?

Does the pancreas name body parts?

It takes a brain to define and identify brains.

Does the brain stem count as part of the brain, or is that a separate body part?

Does the thumb count as a separate body part than the hand?

It could be that all reality is a pile of particles, and naming oceans, and continents, and countries, and mountain ranges, and body parts, is just made up stuff.
 
Mike Helland said:
Is the thumb a finger?

Is the answer that question have any deeper reality than how we identify and name body parts?

Does the pancreas name body parts?

It takes a brain to define and identify brains.

Does the brain stem count as part of the brain, or is that a separate body part?

Does the thumb count as a separate body part than the hand?

It could be that all reality is a pile of particles, and naming oceans, and continents, and countries, and mountain ranges, and body parts, is just made up stuff.
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Such profound thoughts! Such insight! The electro-chemical impulses in my brain that manifest as thought will be compelled to find entirely new pathways after contemplating these questions.
 
JoeMorgue said:
*Sighs* Are we really playing this game?

Your mental process is WHAT YOUR BRAIN DOES.

Your pancreas creates insulin. If I tell you this you don't go "Oh that's a wee bit circular?"

Because you don't think a soul is hiding in insulin production.

It's why people have big showy existential crisis about not knowing every single part of how their minds work but not other parts of their body work.
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You keep banging on about souls when I already said those labels have baggage and shouldn't be used in my opinion, come on.

There is a real internal experience.
You seem to be not accepting that, or am I not understanding your position?

offtopic:
my body only experiences insulin when I choose it to.
 
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