Z
Variable Constant
When a human being is born, the first and only thing it 'knows' is sensation. Memory is vague and, apparently, short-lived. Actual 'knowledge', nonexistent. Sense of 'self' - equally non-existent. The newborn has no sense of selfness or otherness, no sense of time, no sense of space or dimension. Most have very limited sensory perception, of which they can make little sense. Control of their bodies is nonexistent, as is awareness of those bodies. They feel pain, taste food, feel hunger, wetness, discomfort; light, dark, the scent of things, the sounds.... but all of this is merely a part of their experience.
As the infant grows and develops, several key things occur: self-awareness, the separation of 'self' from 'other', the expansion and improvement of memory, the sharpening of senses, etc. Sometime, during this infant development process, conciousness undoubtably begins to sharpen.
For some people, their memories do not substantially improve until late in their first decade, while others gain a marked improvement in memory early in life. I, for example, have no memories whatsoever beyond my sixth birthday - aside from learned abilities like speech, movement, etc. On the other hand, I know of a young lady who can remember her first words, and can recall how hard it was to learn to speak, to walk, to potty-train.
Then we whiz through life, and some of us meet untimely ends, while others age and wither. Some die with sharp mind and clear memory, while others suffer the (apparent) horror of Alzheimer's or related memory loss.
Eventually, we're all gone. Some claim we are reborn; other, that we exist as spirits, or angels, or in some other realm; but the fact is, we're gone.
Now - on to the point of all this pontification:
All we know, with 100% certainty, is sensory perception exists. The first and closest piece of faith we carry is sense-of-self, and beyond that, consciousness. But we don't gain this until after birth, and we apparently can lose this prior to death. This is due to the limitations of our physical shells.
However, where is the reverse? Some posit that consciousness is more causally valid than physicalism, yet where is all this consciousness? Can anyone - ANYONE - show me, with good, solid evidence, any example of a consciousness existing WITHOUT a physical shell of some sort? Can anyone show reasonable evidence of consciousness existing without a neural processor, senses, memory, etc?
If so, I'll be willing to reconsider the view that consciousness arises from matter - from things physical, to make H-P happy - but if not, then I'd say that the most reasonable thing is to compare what we know. Our sensory perceptions tell us that consciousness cannot exist without matter (unless someone here is finally ready to offer solid evidence otherwise) but that matter can exist without consciousness. So why should anyone, anyone at all, have any problem with this observation, unless they have solid, verifiable evidence that consciousness can exist without matter?
I eagerly await the evidence. Surely, folks like Hammy and Hyppie aren't just blowing hot air...?
As the infant grows and develops, several key things occur: self-awareness, the separation of 'self' from 'other', the expansion and improvement of memory, the sharpening of senses, etc. Sometime, during this infant development process, conciousness undoubtably begins to sharpen.
For some people, their memories do not substantially improve until late in their first decade, while others gain a marked improvement in memory early in life. I, for example, have no memories whatsoever beyond my sixth birthday - aside from learned abilities like speech, movement, etc. On the other hand, I know of a young lady who can remember her first words, and can recall how hard it was to learn to speak, to walk, to potty-train.
Then we whiz through life, and some of us meet untimely ends, while others age and wither. Some die with sharp mind and clear memory, while others suffer the (apparent) horror of Alzheimer's or related memory loss.
Eventually, we're all gone. Some claim we are reborn; other, that we exist as spirits, or angels, or in some other realm; but the fact is, we're gone.
Now - on to the point of all this pontification:
All we know, with 100% certainty, is sensory perception exists. The first and closest piece of faith we carry is sense-of-self, and beyond that, consciousness. But we don't gain this until after birth, and we apparently can lose this prior to death. This is due to the limitations of our physical shells.
However, where is the reverse? Some posit that consciousness is more causally valid than physicalism, yet where is all this consciousness? Can anyone - ANYONE - show me, with good, solid evidence, any example of a consciousness existing WITHOUT a physical shell of some sort? Can anyone show reasonable evidence of consciousness existing without a neural processor, senses, memory, etc?
If so, I'll be willing to reconsider the view that consciousness arises from matter - from things physical, to make H-P happy - but if not, then I'd say that the most reasonable thing is to compare what we know. Our sensory perceptions tell us that consciousness cannot exist without matter (unless someone here is finally ready to offer solid evidence otherwise) but that matter can exist without consciousness. So why should anyone, anyone at all, have any problem with this observation, unless they have solid, verifiable evidence that consciousness can exist without matter?
I eagerly await the evidence. Surely, folks like Hammy and Hyppie aren't just blowing hot air...?
