• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Consciousness question

Good to see you agree. There is no way, obviously, that you can be as sure as you claim to be that your visions are not the result of a chemical imbalance. Which is, of course, by far the more parsimonious explanation.

Exactly Iacchus. I wonder why on earth you are unable to grasp this simple truth? I will give you a hint, one that its easily to prove with your favorite "method" (subjective insights):

The main difference between imagination and the real world is that the last one is persistant. In other words, every day the sun raises at exatly the time is expected. Heck we can even predict eclipses years before they happen!

Hope this is not difficult to understand/grasp.
 
Good to see you agree. There is no way, obviously, that you can be as sure as you claim to be that your visions are not the result of a chemical imbalance. Which is, of course, by far the more parsimonious explanation.

There may be hope for you yet.
I am no longer a dependent of the state, and there's no way those people will ever get their claws on me again.
 
Exactly Iacchus. I wonder why on earth you are unable to grasp this simple truth? I will give you a hint, one that its easily to prove with your favorite "method" (subjective insights):

The main difference between imagination and the real world is that the last one is persistant. In other words, every day the sun raises at exatly the time is expected. Heck we can even predict eclipses years before they happen!
However, the sun doesn't rise. It's merely an illusion, subject to none other than what we imagine it to be. And yet, for some strange reason, it seems to persist.

Hope this is not difficult to understand/grasp.
I interact with spirits all the time. Both in my mind and, in what you folks refer to as dreams. And yes, for some strange reason, it seems to persist as well.
 
Good to see you agree. There is no way, obviously, that you can be as sure as you claim to be that your visions are not the result of a chemical imbalance. Which is, of course, by far the more parsimonious explanation.

There may be hope for you yet.
And yet if these spirits are real, and I am capable of seeing them in my mind, what else am I to conclude, except that they are generated by some source other than the brain? There in fact is nothing illogical about this at all.
 
The best way to assure that is to behave as if you weren't crazy.
Yes, and outside of what I've posted on this forum (perhaps), I haven't given them the reason to come looking for me. Most people might conclude that I'm a little bit distant, but not a raving lunatic anyway. ;)
 
And yet if these spirits are real, and I am capable of seeing them in my mind, what else am I to conclude, except that they are generated by some source other than the brain? There in fact is nothing illogical about this at all.
And yet if these visions are hallucinations, and you are capable of seeing them in your mind, what else are you to conclude, except that they are generated by a chemical imbalance in the brain? There in fact is nothing illogical about this at all.

Note that your initial "if" statement assumes your conclusion. That is your old friend circular reasoning, and that is what is illogical about your statement.

You cannot know. I cannot know. The simpler explanation, by far, and the explanation that is consistent with your personal history, is that you generated these visions yourself. There is no evidence whatsoever that it is anything other than this.
 
Yes, and outside of what I've posted on this forum (perhaps), I haven't given them the reason to come looking for me. Most people might conclude that I'm a little bit distant, but not a raving lunatic anyway. ;)
People have lost jobs because of what they posted on blogs. You might want to reconsider how invisible you are.
 
Yes, and outside of what I've posted on this forum (perhaps), I haven't given them the reason to come looking for me. Most people might conclude that I'm a little bit distant, but not a raving lunatic anyway. ;)
I suppose that is good. If this forum gives you an outlet for your delusions and keeps you from revealing them in the real world, then it could keep you a free man. The last thing I would want to see is a news story about you where somebody is saying, "well, he always kept to himself..."
 
People have lost jobs because of what they posted on blogs. You might want to reconsider how invisible you are.
True. Especially since you post from work. If you think your employers don't have the ability to see what you are doing with your computer, then you are sadly mistaken.
 
And yet if these visions are hallucinations, and you are capable of seeing them in your mind, what else are you to conclude, except that they are generated by a chemical imbalance in the brain? There in fact is nothing illogical about this at all.
Can you prove that they're not?

Note that your initial "if" statement assumes your conclusion. That is your old friend circular reasoning, and that is what is illogical about your statement.
Yes, and how does this differ from your initial statement?

You cannot know. I cannot know. The simpler explanation, by far, and the explanation that is consistent with your personal history, is that you generated these visions yourself. There is no evidence whatsoever that it is anything other than this.
Well, I suppose I could pretend like it never happened (and be a good little boy and take the drugs) but, what purpose would it be to induce a drug-like stupor and warden off part of my brain so I can't function like "regular" folks?
 
I suppose that is good. If this forum gives you an outlet for your delusions and keeps you from revealing them in the real world, then it could keep you a free man. The last thing I would want to see is a news story about you where somebody is saying, "well, he always kept to himself..."
Well, They Might be Giants? :D
 
Can you prove that they're not?
You never have been good with the concept "burden of proof". (and by the way, the way you phrase this question implies that they are, in fact, hallucinations. I do think that this is the most likely case, but I am not certain you wish to argue this.)
Yes, and how does this differ from your initial statement?
Not at all. That was my point. The difference is not in the initial statements, but in the degree of support that can be mustered to support each. Your conclusion relied wholly on your assumption, and requires us to claim that current knowledge in physics and biology is dead wrong. Mine does not require that. Occam's razor would cut your notion to ribbons.
Well, I suppose I could pretend like it never happened (and be a good little boy and take the drugs) but, what purpose would it be to induce a drug-like stupor and warden off part of my brain so I can't function like "regular" folks?
Actually, the goal would be for you to function like regular folks. I am not at all convinced that you would require meds; I am not qualified to make that sort of judgment. The problem is, the people who are qualified are the ones you are avoiding.
 
You never have been good with the concept "burden of proof".
Sure I do, I understand it's all been placed on my shoulders. But, I just won't have that.

... and by the way, the way you phrase this question implies that they are, in fact, hallucinations. I do think that this is the most likely case, but I am not certain you wish to argue this.
Yes, I noticed this, thanks. I kind of jumped the gun a bit.

Not at all. That was my point. The difference is not in the initial statements, but in the degree of support that can be mustered to support each. Your conclusion relied wholly on your assumption, and requires us to claim that current knowledge in physics and biology is dead wrong. Mine does not require that. Occam's razor would cut your notion to ribbons.
Which of course becomes a problem when you use it to confirm something that's not true. For example, take the notion that the sun rises and sets in the sky. Why do we still explain it in these terms (and understand full well what we're talking about) when in fact it's simply not true? Because for all intents and purposes this is how it appears. However, since I happen to concur with the latest findings, that the sun does not revolve around the earth, you cannot use this as a means to accuse me of not being open to the "available evidence." Indeed, I understand full well what the "accepted" position on mental illness is. And, while it's one thing to observe something from "afar," it's another thing different entirely to have actually experienced it.

Actually, the goal would be for you to function like regular folks. I am not at all convinced that you would require meds; I am not qualified to make that sort of judgment. The problem is, the people who are qualified are the ones you are avoiding.
The people who are qualified, in many ways (at least in my experience) are just as nuts as the folks they cater to.
 
Last edited:
Sure I do, I understand it's all been placed on my shoulders. But, I just won't have that.
Not your choice to make. You are the one suggesting something that overturns centuries of science; you are the one who needs to back it up with more than dreams.
Which of course becomes a problem when you use it to confirm something that's not true. For example, take the notion that the sun rises and sets in the sky. Why do we still explain it in these terms (and understand full well what we're talking about) when in fact it's simply not true? Because for all intents and purposes this is how it appears. However, since I happen to concur with the latest findings, that the sun does not revolve around the earth, you cannot employ this as a means to accuse me of not being open to the available evidence. Indeed, I understand full well what the "accepted" position on mental illness is. And, while it's one thing to observe something, it's another thing different entirely to have actually gone through the experience.
The thing is, knowing about how the earth spins (instead of the sun orbiting the earth) fits all the observed evidence (which your matrix theory does not), predicts new observations which are confirmed (which your matrix theory does not), and is consistent with the observed laws of physics (which your matrix theory is not). When you attempt to supplant an existing theory with a new one, the new one has to explain the phenomena that the old one did at least as well as the old one, and it must do some additional things as well. Your view does none of these things. There is absolutely no reason for anyone, yourself included, to give any credence whatsoever to it. The fact that you do simply underscores the fact that you do not critically analyze your ideas in the slightest.
The people who are qualified, in many ways (at least in my experience) are just as nuts as the folks they cater to.
...I am sorry you feel that way. You are, once again, quite wrong. But this time, being wrong has more serious consequences than simply being corrected on an internet forum.
 
Not your choice to make. You are the one suggesting something that overturns centuries of science; you are the one who needs to back it up with more than dreams.
And if what I'm saying is true, why should the burden of proof fall upon me? I simply won't have it.
 
However, the sun doesn't rise. It's merely an illusion, subject to none other than what we imagine it to be. And yet, for some strange reason, it seems to persist.

Oh, no Iacchus. The sun does rise from our perspective and subjective feeling. It is a theory, a body of logical and experimental work, what teaches us that the earth goes around the sun. But then again, this is thanks to the fact that the world is real for every (sane) subjective entitie called human.

I interact with spirits all the time. Both in my mind and, in what you folks refer to as dreams. And yes, for some strange reason, it seems to persist as well.

Whats the difference between this assertion and one of an schizophrenic? Besides, its not unusual at all for all of us. You are not "special". We all dream with imaginary people all the time. Thats right, we all and all the time.

With some strong drugs, like ketamine, any individual can also "talk" with this imaginary entities all the time. Yep, every time.

I tell you what this proves, that the brain is constructed in sucha way that it has the ability to make imaginary characters. You choose to believe they are real outside your own existence, but the fact is that, when you are gone, all your imaginary friends will be gone to0. Nope... not to an imaginary "heaven", but to the inexistence.

In Zen Buddhism some masters say that if you see the Buddha in meditation you should kill it, the meaning of this is that those visions are hallucinations, not real, and so they should be avoided in the search for Nirvana.

BTW, this Nirvana is the realization that the ego does not exists, that its only an illusion, somehow created by our sense of existence.
 
Last edited:
...I am sorry you feel that way. You are, once again, quite wrong. But this time, being wrong has more serious consequences than simply being corrected on an internet forum.
Actually, when I was in the hospital, most of the people seemed kind and respectful towards me. However, once I got out, it was an entirely different story. These people were now in a position to "control" my life. Very much as if someone had thrown a piece of fresh meat to the lions.
 
Actually, when I was in the hospital, most of the people seemed kind and respectful towards me. However, once I got out, it was an entirely different story. These people were now in a position to "control" my life. Very much as if someone had thrown a piece of fresh meat to the lions.

Oops, you were in the hospital for a mental condition? WOW. Take care Iacchus, I guess thats not nice at all. And well, this explains your thinking, that much is true. You should be able to realize that seeing things that are in your head as if they were "real", beyond you, is not precisely sane.
 
Oops, you were in the hospital for a mental condition? WOW. Take care Iacchus, I guess thats not nice at all. And well, this explains your thinking, that much is true. You should be able to realize that seeing things that are in your head as if they were "real", beyond you, is not precisely sane.
Yes, I do realize that this is precisely what others believe.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom