Congressman Weiner's inappropriate tweet

Dorian Gray said:
Weiner should resign. Just like that shirtless Craigslist Republican resigned. Why would you insist he stay on? Don't be so partisan.
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I don't think Lee should have resigned, I don't think Weiner should resign.

I don't see how flirting with women online reflects negatively in the least on his ability to understand, propose, and vote on legislation. Same thing with Lee.

People have private lives. His mistakes are between he and his wife. When consensual relationships and activities render someone incapable of holding office, we're treading on dangerous ground.

Which one of the events require a Congressman to resign:

1) Buying a prostitute.
2) Cross-dressing.
3) Having an affair.
4) Having a homosexual affair.
5) Engaging in S&M.
6) Ordering the torture of prisoners.

Glenn Greenwald said it well:

This is just pure mucking around in the private, consensual, unquestionably legal private sexual affairs of someone for partisan gain, voyeuristic fun and the soothing fulfillment of judgmental condemnation.
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http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

If I found out tonight that one of my co-workers was sending dick shots over the internet to people outside of the office (clearly, in an employment situation Weiner's behavior would be very much illegal), I would think, "Man, that was dumb. Hope he works things out with his wife." Then I would think on it no more.

Consider Abraham Lincoln: there are rumors that he carried on extramarital homosexual affairs. The evidence for this is atrocious, I'm not arguing the legitimacy of the claims, but imagine two scenarios:

1) Abraham Lincoln was the exact same historical character and never had a homosexual affair.
2) Abraham Lincoln was the exact same historical character and had a homosexual affair.

That's more than Weiner did, but would that change ANYTHING about Lincoln? I cannot see a hint of practical significance one way or the other.

Demanding that Weiner resign over this is just asserting the claim that politicians cannot have private lives. No matter how insignificant and private, whatever they do in any capacity is worthy of public scrutiny. This quite honestly disgusts me, whether the scorn is directed at Lee or Weiner.

Here is something that I find to be hugely important to our democratic system, and it barely registered a bleep on the news feeds:

Not long after announcing his plans to retire in 2010, then-Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) offered this bit of commentary on why he'd opted to leave Congress after two terms in office: "I want to be engaged in an honorable line of work." It was taken as a biting critique of the increasingly polarized and dysfunctional Senate, and a hint that Bayh's post-Senate plans might include a quiet career in academia, away from politics.

Now Bayh is eating his words. As iWatch News' Peter Stone reports, Bayh has signed on with one of the most corporate-friendly, anti-environment shops in all of Washington, DC: the US Chamber of Commerce. According to an internal memo penned by Chamber president Tom Donohue, Bayh, along with former Bush White House chief of staff Andy Card, are now part of the Chamber's anti-regulation messaging team, doing "speeches, events, and media appearances at local venues."

The Chamber's hiring of Bayh, a big name in Washington circles, will only help its efforts to delay or kill new regulatory legislation in Congress. Indeed, Donohue's memo touts how the Chamber has filed legal briefs to challenge the validity of President Obama's health care reform bill; successfully delayed a new Securities and Exchange Commission rule on giving shareholders a say on corporate directors; unveiled plans to undermine the clout of the fledgling Consumer Financial Protection Bureau; and delayed a rule forcing companies to disclose when they use conflict minerals from the Congo in their products. Bayh and Card, the memo says, will help the Chamber push this pro-corporate agenda in Washington and beyond.
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http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/evan-bayh-us-chamber-commerce

I find that behavior FAR more immoral than sending a picture of a penis to someone in Seattle, but we get breathless condemnations of anything that can be remotely tied to sex while that sort of rank hypocrisy and systemic abuse is shrugged off. I find that troubling.
 
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Mr. Purple said:
ftfy.
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Yes, I think that was the joke, thanks.

edit: No, it turns out I am the idiot here. And I'm leaving my original post the way it was so that everyone can see what an idiot I was as a way of apologizing to Mr. Purple, a smarter person and better poster than me, A Laughing Baby.
 
TraneWreck said:
I don't see how flirting with women online reflects negatively in the least on his ability to understand, propose, and vote on legislation. Same thing with Lee.
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Incredible lack of judgement in this matter is a reflection on all areas of his life, including politics.
 
I do not care about the private lives of our elected representatives. It is none of my business. I don't think Weiner should resign, but do have to wonder why politicians haven't yet clued into the fact that they are going to get caught and (rightly or wrongly) it will be a scandal.

Shouldn't these guys/gals all be slicker than snot? Why can't they see this?
 
A Laughing Baby said:
Yes, I think that was the joke, thanks.

edit: No, it turns out I am the idiot here. And I'm leaving my original post the way it was so that everyone can see what an idiot I was as a way of apologizing to Mr. Purple, a smarter person and better poster than me, A Laughing Baby.
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Only because your avatar contains one of the finest characters ever concocted for the small screen I will forgive you, good sir.

And because I am not sure what just happened. Carry on....
 
Ziggurat said:
Yes, actually, you did. The information was all out there. You just chose not to believe it. You chose to believe Cannonfire because you found him more credible, not because his argument was better. It wasn't.



This isn't about the fact that you were wrong. It's about why you were wrong. You haven't come to terms with that yet.



But why not? Since he was right, and there were people who knew he was right, what is it that you missed? And why aren't you even interested in finding out? All you seem interested in is defending your ignorance. And the danger there for you is that you might succeed.



Once again, you didn't need to believe Breitbart to conclude that Weiner was guilty. It was quite obvious to me that he was guilty, and that conclusion had nothing to do with any confidence in Breitbart. So that doesn't explain it.



In other words, you have learned nothing which will help you determine the truth next time something like this happens.



Yet again, you didn't need to believe Breitbart. All you had to do was watch Weiner himself, and it became obvious. Why did you miss all the clues in Weiner's behavior? Were you just not paying any attention? Do you not understand human nature well enough? Or did you just refuse to believe what you didn't want to believe? Only you can answer that, but it's got nothing to do with Breitbart.
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I admitted I was wrong a looooooooooooooooooong time ago. Get over it.

Your repeated accusations are absurd.

Here's a few questions for you:

1) Why do you repeat your ridiculous assertions?

2) Were you paying any attention at all when I explained my reasoning?

3) Why do you refuse to accept my explanations for being wrong?

4) Why do you presume that your interpretation of Human Behaviour is infallible?

5) Why do you presume that your interpretation of Human Behaviour counts as evidence?

6) Are you a psychoanalyst?

7) If you are, then are you willing to give up your anonymity to prove it?

8) Why can't you admit that Breitbart's previous lies disqualifies him from being taken seriously?

9) Why do you continue to insist that you are the Arbiter of Truth?

10) Why can't you come to terms with the fact that I admitted I was wrong and that I explained my reasons for being wrong?


These are rhetorical questions. You can answer them if you like.

But I won't believe anything you say, because your continued assertions--implying that I have some sort of character defect--demonstrates that your arguments completely lack integrity.

So there are no reasons at all for me to continue wasting my time responding to your rubbish.

GB
 
Neally said:
Incredible lack of judgement in this matter is a reflection on all areas of his life, including politics.
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No, it doesn't.

Martin Luther King enjoyed prostitutes. He bought them when married. Explain how that undermines his life's work.
 
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:eek:
 
Mr. Purple said:
I do not care about the private lives of our elected representatives. It is none of my business. I don't think Weiner should resign, but do have to wonder why politicians haven't yet clued into the fact that they are going to get caught and (rightly or wrongly) it will be a scandal.

Shouldn't these guys/gals all be slicker than snot? Why can't they see this?
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Dunno. It happens all the time.

Somehow, I don't think they're thinking about consequences when they're thinking about... other junk.
 
Gandalfs Beard said:
...

And by the way, I've been having a nice chat with some friends in the UK on another forum. And we all agree that this is the feeblest excuse for a "sex-scandal" of all time.

...

GB
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I thought so at first. At worst, I thought he'd sent a young woman a picture that might have been part of a stupid joke or maybe he just sent it by accident and it was intended for a girl friend or maybe even his wife.

But your friends would have to admit the scandal did get better and creepier. I certainly agree that this is still a bit of a stretch to see that he has done anything that would require resignation but it is creepy and it shows some lack of integrity at least with regard to the relationship with his wife.

The lying part is interesting. I think ten years ago or so I would have seen that as the worst part. I realize now that all politicians lie, otherwise we wouldn't vote for them. So is it all that much worse when one happens to be caught in a stone cold lie rather than the norm where ambiguities and equivocation tend to mask the lies politicians tell?

ETA: There is one other issue here. What should the Democratic Party do about this and what will they do about this? My guess is that the powers that be would have preferred a more straightforward situation where they could just threaten him with an investigation and push him out. Now, they are faced with a situation where the majority of Democratic voters probably think it's time to move on and let the voters decide in the next election. But politics is also about attracting the unaligned moderates and if the Democrats don't do something about what they see as a serious moral transgression they might be persuaded to vote Republican at their next opportunity rather than supporting the godless, sinful Democrats again.
 
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TraneWreck said:
No, it doesn't.

Martin Luther King enjoyed prostitutes. He bought them when married. Explain how that undermines his life's work.
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We are talking about Weiner's fitness going forward. Trying to coverup your acts by lying to your constituents, peers and everyone else is bad judgement. Wouldn't trust his judgement going forward. Not worthy of representing the public regardless of previous accomplishments or political persuasion.
 
Democrats may throw him under the bus because he's not a team player:

During the 2008 campaign cycle, Weiner paid less than half the dues he was assessed. He owed $200,000 in dues, according to a DCCC document, but paid only $75,000. His failure to meet his requirements was considered even more gauche because he didn’t face a serious opponent and went on to win reelection with 93 percent of the vote.
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Former girlfriend Kirsten Powers calls for him to resign, pointing to the misogyny exposed in his FB chat with the Las Vegas gal:
Radar Online posted the transcript, and it is rife with misogyny and distorted views about women. In referring to oral sex, Wiener tells her, “You will gag on me before you c** with me in you” and “[I’m] thinking about gagging your hot mouth with my c***.” This is not about sex. It’s about dominating and inflicting physical pain on a woman, a fantasy the hard-core porn industry makes billions of dollars on selling to men.
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Joan Walsh, a bitter end defender, now says that the pregnancy of his wife means he should resign:
The pregnancy changes everything. Weiner could depict fighting as political courage, but dragging a pregnant wife deeper in this muck?
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Still, looks like those who took the over are the winners.
 
Cheer up, one Amerigun came out of this looking good.

The student who received the original tweet and turned down 150 000 dollars to appear on a TV channel.
 
This "we couldn't possibly decide until Weiner admitted it" reminds me of the time they brought in an "expert" to authenticate Harry Truman's signature on the MJ-12 documents and he "saw no evidence of forgery"

When later asked what would convince him of forgery, his answer was on the lines of "If someone confessed, and showed me exactly how he did it, that would be evidence of forgery"
 
Neally said:
We are talking about Weiner's fitness going forward.
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Regardless of what else you think about the guy, you DO have to respect his fitness. I wouldn't vote for him, but if he writes a book on exercises for the abs I'm all in.

Oh, and Anthony returns to Redeye tonight. Meanwhile Opie is leaving it at this:



lol @ self-appointed "shock jock."

And the REAL fun was on the aftershow (or ":rule10 show") today as the each of them raced to tweet their picture to more media outlets than the other guy with Bennington in-studio enjoying the ride. :D
 
Neally said:
We are talking about Weiner's fitness going forward. Trying to coverup your acts by lying to your constituents, peers and everyone else is bad judgement. Wouldn't trust his judgement going forward. Not worthy of representing the public regardless of previous accomplishments or political persuasion.
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That's just a week attempt at evasion. If you learned in 1960 that King enjoyed prostitutes, would you have demanded that he step aside and let a more trustworthy person lead the Movement?

Again, you're just spouting ********* to justify this absurd voyeurism. Nothing Weiner has done gives me any indication that he would be incapable of serving as a legislator.
 
davefoc said:
I thought so at first. At worst, I thought he'd sent a young woman a picture that might have been part of a stupid joke or maybe he just sent it by accident and it was intended for a girl friend or maybe even his wife.

But your friends would have to admit the scandal did get better and creepier. I certainly agree that this is still a bit of a stretch to see that he has done anything that would require resignation but it is creepy and it shows some lack of integrity at least with regard to the relationship with his wife.
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I agree that this scandal is getting juicier by the day.

The lying part is interesting. I think ten years ago or so I would have seen that as the worst part. I realize now that all politicians lie, otherwise we wouldn't vote for them. So is it all that much worse when one happens to be caught in a stone cold lie rather than the norm where ambiguities and equivocation tend to mask the lies politicians tell?
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Well, equivocation is just Standard Operating Procedure for politicians.

I was watching part 1 of HP and the Deathly Hallows again the other day. There is a scene at the beginning in which Voldemort asks a question of a Ministry of Magic politician. Said politician gave a completely ambiguous response, and Voldemort remarks "spoken like a politician" and snickers.

Which is a demonstration of how completely ingrained into our society this perception is. No-one questions this supposition any more. As you said, it's they only way politicians can get elected. They play to their base, and then sell them out to the highest bidder.

ETA: There is one other issue here. What should the Democratic Party do about this and what will they do about this? My guess is that the powers that be would have preferred a more straightforward situation where they could just threaten him with an investigation and push him out. Now, they are faced with a situation where the majority of Democratic voters probably think it's time to move on and let the voters decide in the next election. But politics is also about attracting the unaligned moderates and if the Democrats don't do something about what they see as a serious moral transgression they might be persuaded to vote Republican at their next opportunity rather than supporting the godless, sinful Democrats again.
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I don't think there is any question that Weiner will be forced to resign by the Democratic Leadership.

And I wouldn't be at all surprised if some outside supporters of the Democrats expose a Republican sex-scandal in retaliation.

GB
 
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