Congrats, Occupiers -- You ARE the 1%!

[timhau]

The 99% has been successful at finally getting the media to pay attention to them,

Two things:

1. The 99% hasn't been protesting.
2. The folks who have been protesting, have been successful at getting the media to pay attention to them. THEM, not their issues. They seem to be fine with that.

 

[Bri]

I'll stop laughing at them when they fade from view. Which should be in about 2 weeks.

So they'll remain relevant for at least for 2 more weeks while you're still paying attention.

And pay 40% of the taxes***. But that's another thread.


***Not exact figures. But close enough.

That is another thread, and completely irrelevant to the point that they have been successful in making people aware of the increasing discrepancy between the rich and poor/middle class in this country.

-Bri

 

[Bri]

And there's always going to be a top 1% unless you use draconian measures to force everyone to have the same income.

Sure, but never before have the top 1% owned 40% of the wealth in the country. The discrepancy between the rich and poor is greater now than it has ever been in history (the rich are getting much richer while the poor are getting poorer), and the chances of improving one's financial status are slimmer than they've ever been. The rich seem to be benefiting disproportionally from our society than the poor or middle class.

It can certainly be argued what the causes and solutions of the problem are. But frankly, it's not necessarily the job of the OWS protestors to come up with all the solutions. In my opinion, they have been pretty successful in pointing out the problem though, as evidenced by the fact that we're talking about it.

-Bri

 

[eeyore1954]

The biggest problem here is that there is no true "public space." It's all owned by someone with an interest for keeping you out.

The issue going forward for 99% would be to rally up voters with additional voter registration and voter turnout. The 99% has been successful at finally getting the media to pay attention to them, so now they need to use that to push through those kind of things. Primaries are coming up very shortly and people really need to turn out for them to make a difference on the parties nominate.

Since they are the 99% victory at any election should be easy.

 

[erwinl]

Sure, but never before have the top 1% owned 40% of the wealth in the country. The discrepancy between the rich and poor is greater now than it has ever been in history (the rich are getting much richer while the poor are getting poorer), and the chances of improving one's financial status are slimmer than they've ever been. The rich seem to be benefiting disproportionally from our society than the poor or middle class.

It can certainly be argued what the causes and solutions of the problem are. But frankly, it's not the job of the OWS protestors to come up with all the solutions. In my opinion, they have been pretty successful in pointing out the problem though, as evidenced by the fact that we're talking about it.

-Bri

But then who should think of the solution?
The 1%?

It sounds a bit like some of the activist groups in my country. Always willing to mention something they don't agree with. Always letting somebody else to think of alternatives, while always demanding to be in the loop for the endresult, so that they can be against the solution again.

Yes, there are problems. Real problems even. But try to think of solutions instead of just being contrary. If they would do that it would even be constructive and for the best of all of us.

 

[eeyore1954]

Sure, but never before have the top 1% owned 40% of the wealth in the country. The discrepancy between the rich and poor is greater now than it has ever been in history (the rich are getting much richer while the poor are getting poorer), and the chances of improving one's financial status are slimmer than they've ever been. The rich seem to be benefiting disproportionally from our society than the poor or middle class.

It can certainly be argued what the causes and solutions of the problem are. But frankly, it's not the job of the OWS protestors to come up with all the solutions. In my opinion, they have been pretty successful in pointing out the problem though, as evidenced by the fact that we're talking about it.

-Bri

Have the poor really gotten poorer?

 

[bonzombiekitty]

The Occupiers are lost in the delusion that "raising awareness" is all you have to do, when it's only step 1.

This. Awareness has been raised. Honestly, I had no expectations that they would even be able to that. I really thought the whole thing would just disappear within a week. But they exceeded my expectations. Good on them.

Now they have shifted the narrative. They got people talking about the issues they are concerned about. Good job. Now it's time to move on and actually start trying to make real change. Sticking around in the parks protesting isn't going to do that, IMO.

If anything the general public is just going to get tired of them, and turn against them. Take Philadelphia for example. The city worked with protestors for weeks, and there weren't really any problems with them. The city now wants to start reconstructing the park the protestors are staying in. The park really needs renovations and such renovations would add some jobs to the city. The city asked the protestors to just move to the plaza across the street so the renovations can start. The protestors said no. Now, the mayor is getting fed up with them, the general public in the city is grumbling more about them, and the police are getting angry at them because there's more protestors yelling at them when the police have, AFAIK, been totally co-operative.

It's very hard to keep something like this going without attracting elements that will reflect very poorly on your movement. Good article on it here. It's time they moved on to a different strategy.

 

[Bri]

Since they are the 99% victory at any election should be easy.

But then who should think of the solution?
The 1%?

You're both making the same assumption, which is that the 99% all have the exact same ideas what the solution should be. I've heard a lot of ideas thrown about by the OWS protestors, some good ideas, some horrible ideas. Some clearly don't understand the causes of the problem, and others do.

One possibility is that a subset of the protestors (or maybe multiple subsets) will come up with what they view as viable solutions. Or maybe a significant number of them will back the political party that they feel is most likely to come up with a solution and may affect voting for certain candidates in a similar way that the Tea Party did. Or maybe one party will simply start campaigning on solutions and will attract enough of the 99% to win elections.

Yes, there are problems. Real problems even. But try to think of solutions instead of just being contrary. If they would do that it would even be constructive and for the best of all of us.

Sure, but it's not necessarily their job. That's what politicians get paid to do. It can be argued that the politicians haven't done a good job, given the state of things. In that case, pointing out the state of things (as you put it, "being contrary") might just be the best thing to affect change. Time will tell.

-Bri

 

[Bri]

Have the poor really gotten poorer?

That depends on how you measure it. The rich have certainly taken a much larger slice of any growth that has occurred in the last several decades, so by that measure the poor have a smaller slice.

Here's an article from PolitiFact (actually, a collection of several related articles) on the subject:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jul/06/it-true-rich-are-getting-richer/

-Bri

 

[erwinl]

You're both making the same assumption, which is that the 99% all have the exact same ideas what the solution should be. I've heard a lot of ideas thrown about by the OWS protestors, some good ideas, some horrible ideas. Some clearly don't understand the causes of the problem, and others do.

One possibility is that a subset of the protestors (or maybe multiple subsets) will come up with what they view as viable solutions. Or maybe a significant number of them will back the political party that they feel is most likely to come up with a solution and may affect voting for certain candidates in a similar way that the Tea Party did. Or maybe one party will simply start campaigning on solutions and will attract enough of the 99% to win elections.



Sure, but it's not necessarily their job. That's what politicians get paid to do. It can be argued that the politicians haven't done a good job, given the state of things. In that case, pointing out the state of things (as you put it, "being contrary") might just be the best thing to affect change. Time will tell.

-Bri

Exactly.

The majority don't see things the same and thus don't see the same solutions. They have to thought up by all of us (for a managable amount of all of us).

Only.... these protesters presume to speak for the 99%.
In that case. If you feel so much for this issue to come into action (which I commend). How can it possibly be that you don't feel to think of solutions?

 

[Bri]

Exactly.

The majority don't see things the same and thus don't see the same solutions. They have to thought up by all of us (for a managable amount of all of us).

Only.... these protesters presume to speak for the 99%.
In that case. If you feel so much for this issue to come into action (which I commend). How can it possibly be that you don't feel to think of solutions?

The solutions are likely complex and multiple, ranging from campaign finance reform to tax policy to regulations. I doubt that there is one single solution.

And I don't think the OWS protestors claim to speak for everyone about the solutions. They claim to be part of the 99% of Americans who aren't benefiting as much from the status quo as the super rich. And even many of the 1% seem to agree with them.

-Bri

 

[JihadJane]

Have the poor really gotten poorer?

CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...

"...the US now ranks 93rd in the world in "income equality." China's ahead of us. So is India. So is Iran."

 

[erwinl]

The solutions are likely complex and multiple, ranging from campaign finance reform to tax policy to regulations. I doubt that there is one single solution.

And I don't think the OWS protestors claim to speak for everyone about the solutions. They claim to be part of the 99% of Americans who aren't benefiting as much from the status quo as the super rich. And even many of the 1% seem to agree with them.

-Bri

I don't think that there is one single solution either.

But yes. The protesters do presume to speak for the majority.
Isn't their motto "I am the 99%"? They don't say that they are part of the majority. It quit clearly states that they are the majority.

 

[Bri]

I don't think that there is one single solution either.

But yes. The protesters do presume to speak for the majority.
Isn't their motto "I am the 99%"? They don't say that they are part of the majority. It quit clearly states that they are the majority.

Are you a native English speaker?

-Bri

 

[Piggy]

The difference between the Teabaggers and the Occutards is that the Teabaggers had the good sense to go home at night.

Other than that, they're opposite sides of the same coin.

Yup.

 

[erwinl]

Are you a native English speaker?

-Bri

No, I'm dutch

 

[Bri]

No, I'm dutch

That might explain the confusion. It's just a figure of speech. They don't mean literally that they are 99% of the population (clearly 99% of the population wouldn't fit in the parks where they're protesting).

"We are the 99%" just means that they're members of the 99% of the population that aren't the "super-rich."

-Bri

 

[Piggy]

That there is broad support for regulating investing and banking.

Yeah, I think that's true. And that's what I appreciate about them.

Folks in favor of sensible rules have been drowned out by the Neo-Randians, and the Dems who should be advocating for that position are too scared to stump for it with any kind of energy.

OWS had its moment, and squandered it, I'm afraid. They've come to stigmatize the positions they had hoped to popularize.

 

[Piggy]

And they wonder why people laugh at them.

Another wrong lesson mis-learned from the 60s.

It wasn't the Yippies and the Pranksters and the student mobs who stopped the war. The war ended when it became so obviously unviable that it could no longer go on.

But the street theater folks took credit for it, and there's been this myth among them ever since.

The successful movement of the 60s was civil rights, and it was dominated by organized groups, both non-violent and not-so-non-violent, but all organized.

Rosa Parks, for instance, didn't just decide one day to sit down on the bus. She was an experienced activist working with other activists, and her actions were co-ordinated and intended to spark the boycotts.

 

[erwinl]

That might explain the confusion. It's just a figure of speech. They don't mean literally that they are 99% of the population (clearly 99% of the population wouldn't fit in the parks where they're protesting).

"We are the 99%" just means that they're members of the 99% of the population that aren't the "super-rich."

-Bri

In that case I will concede this point.

My point about not wanting to contribute to the solution still stands though.