Congrats, Occupiers -- You ARE the 1%!

[WildCat]

Well, the thing is, Harvard's so old that they have a ridiculous amount However, there has been criticism that they don't do enough to recruit poor and lower middle class students, even if they do technically get a free ride if they are let in.

Probably because there's no room for them after letting in all the old money legacy students.

 

[BenBurch]

Probably because there's no room for them after letting in all the old money legacy students.

True, I think. I knew a couple of really bright kids who wanted to get in and were told that without pull of some sort it was basically not possible. I got into University of Chicago mostly on a professor's recommendation. but the playing field was more level there, money being the chief bar.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Probably because there's no room for them after letting in all the old money legacy students.

I'd imagine that plays a big part of it.

It always bugged me that people get so upset about affirmative action for minorities, but not for legacies and children of prominant families.

 

[WildCat]

I'd imagine that plays a big part of it.

It always bugged me that people get so upset about affirmative action for minorities, but not for legacies and children of prominant families.

It's a private school, they can do what they want I guess. The dirty secret of Harvard and other Ivy League schools is that the education there isn't superior to many other schools, grade inflation is rampant and many get in because of who they are rather than academic qualifications. What they excel at, however, is networking and connections and that is far more important in landing a plum job after graduation than anything else.

That's one thing I never understood when I was in college, that the most important quality of a graduate is making the right connections. You can be a brilliant student but without connections you can't even get your foot in the door and end up competing with all the other unconnected grads for mediocre jobs that don't even pay enough to make the rent of a studio apartment. I stayed in the construction industry because I didn't want to live with my parents for several years working some crap $17K/year job which seemed to be about all that was available to me. I just wasn't the kind of person to make a bunch of superficial friends for networking purposes.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The NYPD estimates that 36,000 protesters crossed the Brooklyn Bridge last night.

I'd be willing to bet that on an average summer day, 36,000 tourists cross the Brooklyn Bridge. At least they have nice photos to show for their efforts.

 

[Piggy]

Well, the thing is, Harvard's so old that they have a ridiculous amount of money. They only charge tuition to students whose families make over a certain amount a year (can't remember what it is off hand).

A lot of the people I know who went or go to Harvard actually didn't pay any tuition, or were over the income limit still got generous scholarships. Also, if you're good enough to get into Harvard, you're also good enough to get a lot of other scholarships offered by outside sources. They also have an extension school (that's what I attend) that only runs about $975-$2000 a class.

However, there has been criticism that they don't do enough to recruit poor and lower middle class students, even if they do technically get a free ride if they are let in.

There also will be plenty of students who can't afford the 50K, don't get enough in scholarships, and get loans, just like at any other school. I know plenty of kids who went or go to Boston universities that run around 50K or more who definitely aren't anywhere near the 1%.

I dunno. I got accepted to Harvard, but no offer or even mention of financial support... so I never followed up. Oh, well. If I'd made it, I wouldn't have fit in up there anyway.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I dunno. I got accepted to Harvard, but no offer or even mention of financial support... so I never followed up. Oh, well. If I'd made it, I wouldn't have fit in up there anyway.

Not sure of your age, but I'm pretty sure this has been a fairly recent development, some time in the last decade (though I'm really not sure of that). Right now if your household makes less than 60K a year, you have no tuition costs. In 2012 this is getting bumped up to 65K. Above that and you are still eligible for partial assistance, you may still even get a free ride, but below 65K and it's automatic.

Not sure if this applies to Med School and Law School students. My guess is that they probably have their own guidelines.

Wow this thread has driften off topic, sorry 'bout that.

 

[JihadJane]

I understand what the protests are in response to.

I said up front that I agree with the mainstream ideas that these protestors are in favor of.

That's not the issue.

You want to know what some of the fundamentals of successful protest are?

OK, we can start with....

1. Be righteous. Don't act in ways that others can (and will) easily criticize you for, especially the fence-sitters who you are trying to sway (because folks who oppose you will criticize you regardless).

All challengers of the Status Quo will be smeared and ridiculed, regardless of their behavior.

The Occupy movement has been consistently non-violent and has behaved in a highly principled manner.

2. Have dignity. If you're striking, wear a suit, or a uniform, or your work togs. Be respectable, don't clown things up.

There is no intrinsic dignity in wearing a suit or a uniform or your "work togs".

The Occupy movement has consistently maintained its dignity in the face of violent attacks and reactionary smear.

Your fashion advice would be ludicrous even if we lived in a political/economic system that valued full employment.

Most people like like fun and the Occupy movement would like life to be more enjoyable. There is no virtue in respectability for its own sake. We have seen what the supposedly respectable, suit-wearing classes have done the world's economy and "resources".

3. Do what you want done. If you're black and you want to be served at lunch counters, get some friends and go to the lunch counter and ask for a sandwich. If you're a woman and you want to be able to vote, show up at the registrar's office en masse in order to register. If you're Indian and you want to keep the right to make salt, go to the sea and start making salt.

The Occupy movement is a very good example of people putting their desire for a different kind of politics into practice.

4. Don't do what you're protesting. You wouldn't toilet-paper your neighbors' yards in order to draw attention to a neighborhood beautification campaign. So why take over a park and keep other people from using it in order to protest the financial sector's takeover of resources?

They aren't doing what they're protesting against.

Perhaps you have overlooked the name of the movement: Occupy. Everyone is very welcome in the places they occupy and their presence makes the areas safer to be in, especially at night.

It would have been easy for Bloomberg to provide toilet facilities if he really prioritized freedom of assembly and speech over the interests of Big Money. Indeed, the dearth of public toilet facilities in general is a scandal in itself.

5. Don't make the people whose support you need angry at you. The Black Panthers did things to anger white America because it didn't care what white America thought, but within its own constituencies it observed rules 1-3.

The Occupy movement is attracting plenty of support from all tiers of society, even amongst the "One Percenters".

The Black Panther movement was regarded by Edgar Hoover as "the greatest threat to the internal security of the country" and FBI set about into destroying it accordingly. Supposed obeying your rules 1.3 didn't save it. If the Occupy initiatives continue to thrive the FBI will attempt to do the same to them, if they are not already doing so.

Garbage strikers make people angry, but this strategy stands or falls depending on whether most folks think sanitation workers are already compensated well enough, or that they're underpaid (in which case they blame the city). Disrupting the daily lives and work lives of the real 99%, while turning a nice park into a pup-tent ghetto, is ticking off the wrong people.

Strikes aren't publicity stunts - they are expressions of working class power (withdrawing their labor etc is the only power they have) aimed at forcing concessions out of their reluctant rulers, who never give away power voluntarily.

Any kind of political protest is going to make some people angry. The Occupy movement has garnered enormous support in the US and around the world.

5. Make it relevant. "I'm sitting at this lunch counter because every citizen deserves the right to get food at a public restaurant." Tha'ts relevant. "I'm camping in a city park because there's too much wealth disparity in the U.S." Huh? "I'm disrupting traffic at this bridge because the capital gains tax is too low." Wha'?

What's irrelevant about attempting to occupy Wall Street or, indeed, any other space? Did you regard the occupation of Tahrir Square as irrelevant?

6. Know when to get organized. At some point, the grousing stops and the business of making change happen starts.

The Occupy movement is organized. There is an enormous amount networking activity happening. As a US phenomenon, it is only two months old and still rapidly evolving.

 

[Virus]

Hey Jane, what do you think is a better way of running an economy?

 

[Alt+F4]

What's irrelevant about attempting to occupy Wall Street or, indeed, any other space? Did you regard the occupation of Tahrir Square as irrelevant?

There is no comparison. The Egyptian protests had very specific demands. It also resulted in the death of about 900 people. The death toll is ongoing, 27 died just in October.

 

[WildCat]

There is no comparison. The Egyptian protests had very specific demands. It also resulted in the death of about 900 people. The death toll is ongoing, 27 died just in October.

Unfortunately it's the Islamists protesting in Tahrir Square lately, interesting times ahead for Egypt.

 

[WildCat]

Hey Jane, what do you think is a better way of running an economy?

Step 1: Destroy the capitalist system!
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Prosperity!

 

[AlBell]

Step 1: Destroy the capitalist system!
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Prosperity! Social Justice!

ftfy

 

[JihadJane]

There is no comparison. The Egyptian protests had very specific demands. It also resulted in the death of about 900 people. The death toll is ongoing, 27 died just in October.

What has standing around in a square, putting up tents and making a lot of noise got to do with making specific demands?

 

[WildCat]

What has standing around in a square, putting up tents and making a lot of noise got to do with making specific demands?

Now you're beginning to understand thee criticism of OWS.

 

[bookitty]

Step 1: Destroy the capitalist system!
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Prosperity!

Regulation and reform are not destruction.

 

[Virus]

Regulation and reform are not destruction.

We're talking to JihadJane who wants the system to collapse. So do a lot of your fellow Communist and anarchist protesters.

 

[bookitty]

We're talking to JihadJane who wants the system to collapse. So do a lot of your fellow Communist and anarchist protesters.

Well, yes and no. Views that are far from our own tend to get exaggerated when we describe them. For example, I have no "fellow" commies although I do feel that some aspects of socialism can be used as a check for some of the problems with capitalism.

The anarchists are a completely different matter. They exist and they are nihilists. Nihilism & anarchy are farther removed from my own philosophy than even extreme right-wing conservatism because I am working towards a more cooperative society. In their own way, so are the conservatives. We might differ on technique but the goal is to build.

The anarchists within OWS are incredibly worrisome. I will admit to being frustrated by the passive stance various occupies have taken with them.

 

[Ziggurat]

The anarchists within OWS are incredibly worrisome. I will admit to being frustrated by the passive stance various occupies have taken with them.

It's too late for them to take any other stance except passivism or embrace. The strategy was fatally flawed from the start.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Ha, okay I just got worried because I heard Queer Uprising was going to be "occupying" in New York. Turns out it was just a headline and they are simply working on a project in NY. I decided to check what they cited for their basis of Civil Disobedience and it reads really funny in light of this discussion:

a. Goal: What do you want? What are your political demands (short-term, long- term, local, national)?
b. Allies & opponents: Who will (or potentially will) support or oppose your cause?
c. Target: What person or entity can advance or thwart the goal? What kind of pressure will affect the target?

...

“When we engage in civil disobedience, we do so to achieve change, not to get arrested. Getting arrested is of little significance in and of itself. We’re not out to accumulate arrests like merit badges. Arrests result from our commitment to achieve change; they are the means to an end, not the end in themselves.” (Aldyn McKean, ACT UP/NY)

Linky.

But I want to add that some people are playing loose with history. Plenty of the demonstrations that we remember as "leading to X" actually had a very messy history.