Common Sense

[uk_dave]

Taking down a bridge is significantly different than CDing a building.

Just wanted to make that point.

lol I know I know...... I been hanging around with the woowoos too long, I can imagine the sort of answers they would give....after all, it's just common sense, innit?

 

[JonnyFive]

Sure he did! He posted this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/619745883d59e05a7.jpg

Of course, how silly of me.

 

[Mashuna]

See that's the cunning bit, if we use the Valleys - and I really like the phrase "the Bedwellty Base" - then we can use the old coal mines and get a head start!

Plus the Valleys are so depressed that we'll get a grant for eomploying people!!!

That's true - I bet the Valleys are in the European Redevelopment Zone 1 area - it'll be self-funding. Wait, we could make. . .trillions!

All I've got left is some sideways-cutting thermite, no good for diggin underground.

Once you get the hole, though, maybe you could use it for tunnels?

Thanks for the offer, although it seems like we'll be ok now, using the coal mines.

I'll deploy the thermite as an anti-intruder security measure. I'll put it in buckets then balance them on slightly open doors throughout the base. I'll label the doors "Top Sooper Sekrit NWO World Dominations Plans II". But keep it classified.

 

[Big Les]

Exactly! So no one will ever believe Wales is the real base for a secret group.Maybe not the Rhonda, though. Too close to Cardiff. Maybe Mirthyr or no, wait for it....Tredegar!


The CGI finale was absolutely lamentable, wasn't it!

To be honest the whole programme is a dead loss. The characters are incompetent, selfish, and dysfunctional, the organisation several orders of magnitude less credible than CTU, and the supposed "adult" aspects of the show are behind-the-bike-shed nob gags and faux-edginess. Everything about it is inconsistent and annoying, especially the writing and characterisations, and the production values constantly veer from OK to sub-Blakes 7. The Goat-'O-Doom is the least of its problems.

Apart from that it's quite good. I certainly can't stop watching the damn thing. But then I have a serious morbid fascination with utter bollocks. You could probably guess that based on my being here in the first place...

 

[Architect]

That's true - I bet the Valleys are in the European Redevelopment Zone 1 area - it'll be self-funding. Wait, we could make. . .trillions!


Thanks for the offer, although it seems like we'll be ok now, using the coal mines.

I'll deploy the thermite as an anti-intruder security measure. I'll put it in buckets then balance them on slightly open doors throughout the base. I'll label the doors "Top Sooper Sekrit NWO World Dominations Plans II". But keep it classified.

Should we call our red shirted minions "The Bevan Boys" or something like that?

 

[Architect]

To be honest the whole programme is a dead loss. The characters are incompetent, selfish, and dysfunctional, the organisation several orders of magnitude less credible than CTU, and the supposed "adult" aspects of the show are behind-the-bike-shed nob gags and faux-edginess. Everything about it is inconsistent and annoying, especially the writing and characterisations, and the production values constantly veer from OK to sub-Blakes 7. The Goat-'O-Doom is the least of its problems.

Say what you think, don't sit on the fence, eh?


The Herald (Scotland's largest selling broadsheet) tv section ran a good analysis pointing out that one of the problems was that, even allowing for normal sci-fi suspension of disbelief, the underlying principles and assumptions just didn't make sense.

For example, if they don't belong or answer to any one government then (a) who set them up, (b) why do the Police and everyone co-operate, and (c) what happens to all the gear they find? There are also too many "neat" solutions; magic amnesia pills being a case in point.

You're also bang on about the "adult" themes, which are clearly just titivation in an attempt to look grown up.

And thon Japanese lassie is about as Japanese as Haggis or Pimms......

 

[Kage]

When common sense can design and build scyscrapers as big as the WTC, then and only then will I see it as applicable to the failure modes of such buildings.

 

[uk_dave]

When common sense can design and build scyscrapers as big as the WTC, then and only then will I see it as applicable to the failure modes of such buildings.

Nice one!

just imagine a common sense skyscraper..... 100' x 100' with 6 sq.ft of office space per floor

 

[switchtech]

Hey, unfair stereotyping! We don't ALL use forks.

What's a fork? The only thing required for Ramen noodles is a pair of sticks...

(Note, apparently we're all computer programmers here, based on my read of 28th Kingdom's earlier attempt at an insult - and everyone knows the official and only food for programmers is Ramen noodles).

 

[switchtech]

Will they really be able to free their heads from their fundimental orifice in time to get here by then?

Oh, and I can't wait to see their evidence. I'm sure it's so massive! And steaming, too!

Oops, sorry, I didn't realize what that was and flushed it. I guess they need to start over.

 

[28th Kingdom]

28th Kingdom, could you please provide some evidence that your theory is possible, plausible, or correct without appealing to "magic" or "it just happened" or "the government can do these things somehow"?

What magic are you talking about? I just showed you that there doesn't have to be any magic or faith leaping involved in the - 9/11 is an Inside Job Belief.

I just proved that everything necessary for 9/11 to be an inside job has already happened at some point throughout history. Nothing is crazy or magical or far fetched or off the wall, about a country using a false flag operation as a pretext to invade another country. Nothing is crazy or magical about demolishing a building with explosives. Nothing is crazy or magical about a commercial-size airliner being flown by remote control. Nothing is crazy or magical about the highest ranking officials in the government having the ability to hand down orders and disarm NORAD.

So, the question remains... what is so crazy or magical about 9/11 being an inside job?

See, the problem is that you left-brain radicals like to dig down past the surface of all these essential points... to a place where facts and evidence are but pawns under the ruling of speculation and assumption. We know the big facts... we know that all of these things are possible... but you (skeptics) insist on dragging the debate down into the muck (in an attempt at debunking) of minor details for which the answers can only be derived from speculation.

See, it's the same thing as NIST using something like computer simulations (beyond the physical world) to prove all of their (physical) real-world theories... since they control all of the inputs (facts/variables/evidence) they can get these simulations to generate only the answers that will confirm their original hypothesis.

The same goes when you bring the focus of a debate down into a "virtual" world of convictions (which can be completely formulated/manipulated without the aid of real-world facts/variables/evidence) where you then proceed to "debunk" anything and everything with nothing more than manufactured opinions (based upon your beliefs - which are simply more thoughts and not real-world elements) that support whatever theory you are trying to prove.

You "debunk," the planted explosive theory not with any real physical evidence, but by using warped speculation about how it's, "impossible" to plant explosives without anyone noticing. You fool yourselves into believing that your theories are based out of some kind of fact or scientific laws, when in reality, they are composed purely of thoughts upon thoughts... virtual components (at your complete discretion) stacked upon virtual components (at your complete discretion) used to confirm real-world phenomena and events... just like the NIST computer simulations.

 

[Brainache]

What magic are you talking about? I just showed you that there doesn't have to be any magic or faith leaping involved in the - 9/11 is an Inside Job Belief.

I just proved that everything necessary for 9/11 to be an inside job has already happened at some point throughout history. Nothing is crazy or magical or far fetched or off the wall, about a country using a false flag operation as a pretext to invade another country. Nothing is crazy or magical about demolishing a building with explosives. Nothing is crazy or magical about a commercial-size airliner being flown by remote control. Nothing is crazy or magical about the highest ranking officials in the government having the ability to hand down orders and disarm NORAD.

So, the question remains... what is so crazy or magical about 9/11 being an inside job?

See, the problem is that you left-brain radicals like to dig down past the surface of all these essential points... to a place where facts and evidence are but pawns under the ruling of speculation and assumption. We know the big facts... we know that all of these things are possible... but you (skeptics) insist on dragging the debate down into the muck (in an attempt at debunking) of minor details for which the answers can only be derived from speculation.

See, it's the same thing as NIST using something like computer simulations (beyond the physical world) to prove all of their (physical) real-world theories... since they control all of the inputs (facts/variables/evidence) they can get these simulations to generate only the answers that will confirm their original hypothesis.

The same goes when you bring the focus of a debate down into a "virtual" world of convictions (which can be completely formulated/manipulated without the aid of real-world facts/variables/evidence) where you then proceed to "debunk" anything and everything with nothing more than manufactured opinions (based upon your beliefs - which are simply more thoughts and not real-world elements) that support whatever theory you are trying to prove.

You "debunk," the planted explosive theory not with any real physical evidence, but by using warped speculation about how it's, "impossible" to plant explosives without anyone noticing. You fool yourselves into believing that your theories are based out of some kind of fact or scientific laws, when in reality, they are composed purely of thoughts upon thoughts... virtual components (at your complete discretion) stacked upon virtual components (at your complete discretion) used to confirm real-world phenomena and events... just like the NIST computer simulations.

Since Regnad Kcin doesn't seem to be around. I hope he won't mind if I use a phrase of his: Dear CTer, you are 100% wrong.

Just to take up your last paragraph: We debunk the planted explosives theory because there is no evidence for it.

Just how you manage to describe your own thought process so precisely and then ascribe them to others is astounding. You really are a textbook example of projection.

So tell me again how you have proven anything at all. Tell me again about all the facts you have regarding the inside job on 9/11. Tell me again how it is your opponents who are using speculation to deduce nonsense.

 

[Bell]

What magic are you talking about? I just showed you that there doesn't have to be any magic or faith leaping involved in the - 9/11 is an Inside Job Belief.

Bolding mine. Believing something doesn't mean it is true. A lot of children believe in Santa Clause or the Tooth Ferry.

I just proved that everything necessary for 9/11 to be an inside job has already happened at some point throughout history. Nothing is crazy or magical or far fetched or off the wall, about a country using a false flag operation as a pretext to invade another country. Nothing is crazy or magical about demolishing a building with explosives. Nothing is crazy or magical about a commercial-size airliner being flown by remote control. Nothing is crazy or magical about the highest ranking officials in the government having the ability to hand down orders and disarm NORAD.

How does something that happened in the past, prove an inside job of 9/11? You pooped in your diapers when you where a baby, so you still poop in your pants today.

So, the question remains... what is so crazy or magical about 9/11 being an inside job?

Everything. I want to say, pay attention, but since you have everyone and his cat on ignore, that comment is waisted.

See, the problem is that you left-brain radicals like to dig down past the surface of all these essential points... to a place where facts and evidence are but pawns under the ruling of speculation and assumption. We know the big facts... we know that all of these things are possible... but you (skeptics) insist on dragging the debate down into the muck (in an attempt at debunking) of minor details for which the answers can only be derived from speculation.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

See, it's the same thing as NIST using something like computer simulations (beyond the physical world) to prove all of their (physical) real-world theories... since they control all of the inputs (facts/variables/evidence) they can get these simulations to generate only the answers that will confirm their original hypothesis.

Nobody is stopping you from creating your own computer model.

The same goes when you bring the focus of a debate down into a "virtual" world of convictions (which can be completely formulated/manipulated without the aid of real-world facts/variables/evidence) where you then proceed to "debunk" anything and everything with nothing more than manufactured opinions (based upon your beliefs - which are simply more thoughts and not real-world elements) that support whatever theory you are trying to prove.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

(Didn't I say that allreadfy?)

You "debunk," the planted explosive theory not with any real physical evidence, but by using warped speculation about how it's, "impossible" to plant explosives without anyone noticing. You fool yourselves into believing that your theories are based out of some kind of fact or scientific laws, when in reality, they are composed purely of thoughts upon thoughts... virtual components (at your complete discretion) stacked upon virtual components (at your complete discretion) used to confirm real-world phenomena and events... just like the NIST computer simulations.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Oh hell... 28IQ, give me something I can reply to in another way.

 

[28th Kingdom]

Brainache... you are now on my ignore list. I am tired of reading posts that add absolutely no value and/or substance to the debate.

90% of the replies I receive are imbued with nothing more than vacuous drivel... that has been regurgitated a thousand times over.

If you wish to engage me in debate... than please write a mindful retort that is relevant to my words.


P.S. Bell you have just been added to my ignore list for your latest display of unoriginality.

 

[Bell]

Brainache... you are now on my ignore list. I am tired of reading posts that add absolutely no value and/or substance to the debate.

90% of the replies I receive are imbued with nothing more than vacuous drivel... that has been regurgitated a thousand times over.

If you wish to engage me in debate... than please write a mindful retort that is relevant to my words.


P.S. Bell you have just been added to my ignore list for your latest display of unoriginality.

Wow!! Thank you. Ignored for unoriginalty. If I took your standard, I wouldn't have to bother with the deniers anymore.

For someone who wishes to engage in debate, you sure take the coward's way out.

 

[babazaroni]

See, it's the same thing as NIST using something like computer simulations (beyond the physical world) to prove all of their (physical) real-world theories... since they control all of the inputs (facts/variables/evidence) they can get these simulations to generate only the answers that will confirm their original hypothesis.

The NIST was not the only people doing simulations. Two competing UK universities also did simulations, one with slightly different result showing that just fire alone could have collapsed the buildings.

Any grad student who could have identified any flaws in these studies would have the perfect doctoral thesis. Have there been any? None. Nada.

You "debunk," the planted explosive theory not with any real physical evidence, but by using warped speculation about how it's, "impossible" to plant explosives without anyone noticing. You fool yourselves into believing that your theories are based out of some kind of fact or scientific laws, when in reality, they are composed purely of thoughts upon thoughts... virtual components (at your complete discretion) stacked upon virtual components (at your complete discretion) used to confirm real-world phenomena and events... just like the NIST computer simulations.

So how do you debunk the planted explosive theory?

Do you have to assemble an elite team and see if you get caught on a similar building in NYC?

And if you get caught, CT'ers will just say the team was not elite enough because the real team did not get caught.

 

[28th Kingdom]

So how do you debunk the planted explosive theory?

Do you have to assemble an elite team and see if you get caught on a similar building in NYC?

And if you get caught, CT'ers will just say the team was not elite enough because the real team did not get caught.

Well, when you have classic signs of planted explosives i.e. "squibs" shooting out of the building some 20-30 floors below the collapse point... I'd say that real-world data (you know...stuff that can be observed and measured) like this, makes your job a lot harder.

You know with common sense... we might say - okay, maybe stuff (smoke/dust/debris) shooting out on the floor that is being crushed might be possible... since the air on that floor could be affected by the immediate impact from above... but when you're talking about floors that have not collapsed... floors that have not been touched or affected by the falling upper mass - magically spouting out debris like a steel-boned whale doing a handstand* - well, now we're experiencing the rainbow-colored thaumaturgy that is so ubiquitous in the land of debunkerville.

*Copyright © 2007, 28IQ Productions. All rights reserved. No reprints in signature without expressed written consent from yours truly.

 

[Brainache]

Brainache... you are now on my ignore list. I am tired of reading posts that add absolutely no value and/or substance to the debate.

Made it at last!
I thought pointing out one or two of your obvious errors might actually be a contribution to the debate, but sadly I was mistaken.

90% of the replies I receive are imbued with nothing more than vacuous drivel... that has been regurgitated a thousand times over.

Umm I think you are projecting again. Projectile Drivelling. Not pretty.

If you wish to engage me in debate... than please write a mindful retort that is relevant to my words.

And when you do you will be ignored for spamming or something.

P.S. Bell you have just been added to my ignore list for your latest display of unoriginality.

Is there anyone left NOT on 28K's ignore list?
And Happy Birthday Bell.

 

[beachnut]

Well, when you have classic signs of planted explosives i.e. "squibs" shooting out of the building some 20-30 floors below the collapse point... I'd say that real-world data (you know...stuff that can be observed and measured) like this, makes your job a lot harder.

You know with common sense... we might say - okay, maybe stuff (smoke/dust/debris) shooting out on the floor that is being crushed (from above) might be possible... since the air on that floor might be affected by the immediate impact from above... but when you're talking about floors that have not collapsed... floors that have not been touched or affected by the falling upper mass - magically spouting out debris like a steel-boned whale doing a handstand* - well, now we're experiencing the rainbow-colored thaumaturgy that is so ubiquitous in the land of debunkerville.

*Copyright © 2007, 28IQ Productions. All rights reserved. No reprints in signature without expressed written consent from yours truly.

Common sense is the ability to see that the debris coming out the window is accelerating, not an explosive shooting out debris, a pressure increase pushing more and more out the window.

Squib - common sense tells us the squibs are used to splatter blood on actors, not fool idiots and dolts into CT.

 

[Horatius]

Well, when you have classic signs of planted explosives i.e. "squibs" shooting out of the building some 20-30 floors below the collapse point... I'd say that real-world data (you know...stuff that can be observed and measured) like this, makes your job a lot harder.

And how is a "squib" 20-30 floors below the collapse point proof of CD? In CD, the collapse starts where the explosives go off. Or did you not know that?

You know with common sense... we might say - okay, maybe stuff (smoke/dust/debris) shooting out on the floor that is being crushed (from above) might be possible... since the air on that floor might be affected by the immediate impact from above... but when you're talking about floors that have not collapsed... floors that have not been touched or affected by the falling upper mass - magically spouting out debris like a steel-boned whale doing a handstand* - well, now we're experiencing the rainbow-colored thaumaturgy that is so ubiquitous in the land of debunkerville.

Yes, because common sense doesn't tell us that fluids in a contained volume have the same uniform pressure, regardless of location. Oh wait, yes it does.

Well, then, I guess it's lucky for you there were no elevator shafts connecting the floors together. Oh, wait, there were.

Oh, well, I guess you're wrong again. Not like that's unprecedented.

*Copyright © 2007, 28IQ Productions. All rights reserved. No reprints in signature without expressed written consent from yours truly.

Fair use, as part of a scholarly work. Sue me if you think otherwise.

Not to mention implied consent when you signed onto the forum.

That's assuming you even see this, since I'm on "ignore".