Common Core Standards

[Minoosh]

As an educator and generally skeptical person I think CC is about selling textbooks. To the poster who thought 2015 was a long way off - really?

The school I work at - not for, I'm an independent contractor - already has Common Core textbooks, and they don't seem any worse than what came before. Scandalously little has changed in secondary mathematics, and in general I have no problem with emphasizing nonfiction over fiction - unless we're talking textbooks, which are not only boring but made out of some unusually dense substance - it hurts to lift them up.

 

[Minoosh]

Yesterday a student asked me, "Why is pi 3.14 something?"

And I think this might touch on the question of Common Core curricula.

I had this girl draw a circle, measure its circumference and divide that by its diameter.

Teachers live for this stuff, really. Yet a student who blindly substitutes 3.14 for pi will get perfectly acceptable calculations. I love that she asked the question, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure which approach is "better."

 

[jasonpatterson]

Where I'm at the resistance seems to be mainly that if common core standards are adopted then the liberals on the coasts will decide what the wholesome youth of the middle are going to learn. The idea of them is no big deal - they are not even a new cycle in teaching. We appear to be stuck with standards now, common core is just a national set of standards as opposed to a state-by-state set.

What I do know is that my daughters are doing things in first and second grade that we didn't get to until third and fourth. My completely unfounded suspicion is that it's because the people who wrote down the first set of state standards did a reasonable job and then a series of revisions and state-to-state comparisons have caused them to one-up both their neighbors and their own past by making the standards progressively more challenging.

 

[Dancing David]

I think common core is no big deal, it just it meant to standardize curricula across the country, otherwise you have states with different standards for different grades.

Now given that Illinois, New York and California set higher standards than other states, this will make some states unhappy.

But almost all of the objections in the media are bogus, individual states and schools districts still implement the curricula, it is up to them what texts they use and what products they use and how to implement.

http://www.corestandards.org/math/content/3/introduction
http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/3/OA


http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/3/OA/A/1

"Interpret products of whole numbers, e.g., interpret 5 × 7 as the total number of objects in 5 groups of 7 objects each. For example, describe a context in which a total number of objects can be expressed as 5 × 7."

Oh big social agenda there...

Seriously has any body read their state curricula, i have , they are deathly dull

 

[geni]

Be very afraid of elementary school, especially with CC.

For language arts, CC schools are emphasizing non-fiction reading over fiction, which I disagree with.

So?

For math, elementary education is a disaster even before CC. The state curriculum can be sound, but the implementation insane. The California 4th grade math standards reads great, and calls for kids to learn number sense, proportions, and approximations. The way my district implements that, students are taught *only* to do approximations, never to use classical methods. It's considered wrong to borrow when subtracting, carry when adding, or to do long division. Confident students will ignore their teachers, and learn math over their objections. Apprehensive students will learn not to do math.

Err its actually a pretty rational approach in a world where everyone carries a calculator 24/7. When was the last time you actualy used long division?

 

[SumDood]

I put this in another thread that touched on common core and thought it might be informational here:

At my old job I had a 45 minute commute and I would listen to Phil Valentine, a standard small time AM talk radio host. He had a guest on there that said because the correct answer to a question about parents instructing a child to clean her room was 'nagging', that meant the entire thing (Common Core) is 'socialism'. Some examples:

Children asked to clean their rooms are said to be subject to parental "nagging" (the correct answer to an actual multiple-choice question).

For example, English language arts curriculum in Utah inculcates the welfare-state mentality and characterizes a parent’s directions as “nagging.”

She then went on to complain that the source and examples weren't based on the bible, but the host actually cut her off then.

 

[joesixpack]

Err its actually a pretty rational approach in a world where everyone carries a calculator 24/7. When was the last time you actualy used long division?

Yesterday!

I actually try to do as much math in my head as I can. I don't know why, I just seem to think it's virtuous for some reason. I would be hesitant to allow a child to advance past 5th grade without an ability to compute with pencil and paper, though I certainly see your point.

 

[fuelair]

Yesterday!

I actually try to do as much math in my head as I can. I don't know why, I just seem to think it's virtuous for some reason. I would be hesitant to allow a child to advance past 5th grade without an ability to compute with pencil and paper, though I certainly see your point.

Long before there were hand calculators at computer level, there was an SF story whose author I do not remember (sigh!!). In it Terrans were faced with invaders who had more and better fighting craft and the terrans were being blasted out of space. The reason: they depended on their computers for defense and attack control. A wise old guy taught a few how to calculate on their own and they went out and beat the **** out of the aliens they contacted. Lesson learned, old guy herofied, math back in the curriculum.

 

[fuelair]

Note, as a fogie and don't want to have to remember where I left my TI-8something (1 I think) last or how to pull up the one on the phone I do not have with me all the time, I still paper or mentally calculate the things I need to calculate...... Works just fine!!

 

[Halcyon Dayz]

Long before there were hand calculators at computer level, there was an SF story whose author I do not remember (sigh!!). In it Terrans were faced with invaders who had more and better fighting craft and the terrans were being blasted out of space. The reason: they depended on their computers for defense and attack control. A wise old guy taught a few how to calculate on their own and they went out and beat the **** out of the aliens they contacted. Lesson learned, old guy herofied, math back in the curriculum.

"The Feeling of Power" by Isaac Asimov.

 

[fuelair]

"The Feeling of Power" by Isaac Asimov.

Thanks kindly!!!

 

[AmandaM]

I can work out a problem in long division in MUCH less time than it takes me to find my phone, launch the calculator app, enter the numbers and get the result. I can't be the only one...

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Is this one of those ridiculous standards that is supposed to be the same for every child? Oh, I see, it's the basis of PARCC that we are about to adopt here in Massachusetts.

If so, I would like to add three physical education requirements: swimming, running, and high jumping.

~~ Paul

 

[xjx388]

I don't agree with the way they teach math. For example, in Kindergarten:

Solve addition and subtraction word problems, and add and subtract within 10, e.g., by using objects or drawings to represent the problem.

That's way too simplistic. I think we should aim higher. Consider:

Fluently add and subtract within 5.

Really?!? I should think a kid coming out of kinder should be able to fluently do a heck of a lot more than that.

I'm all for common standards, but can we make them more challenging than what we have now?

 

[Minoosh]

What I do know is that my daughters are doing things in first and second grade that we didn't get to until third and fourth. My completely unfounded suspicion is that ...

Your suspicion isn't unfounded; in the race to apply "tough new standards" it's probably true. The issue is, sooner or later we get back down to counting, which humans learn largely at ... what, 3? I don't even know, but we're not born knowing it. The concepts we're all supposed to "get" now are pretty sophisticated.

This resonates with students and teachers alike:
"Math class imagined by kids"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdxEAt91D7k

Once you are down at a kid's-eye level of things, it's hard to generalize about what they all "should" know. There comes a point where you're butting heads with biology.

Really?!? I should think a kid coming out of kinder should be able to fluently do a heck of a lot more than that.

What "You should think" - is that be based on any data about the reality of current 5-year-olds, or just what you think they should know?

If you can coach your kids to a higher level than the schools can, go for it. I'm sure we all have examples of what kids "should know," but if they don't, then we have to teach them.

In practice, a kindergarten teacher's job is to keep small children reasonably entertained, while you trot out the drills *and* encourage them to count stuff and take away and put it in patterns. With a lot of careful planning and sheer busywork they might be ready for freshman algebra in nine years, but it's not a sure thing; achievement is not just a matter of expectations, programming and calibration. At age 14 a lot are still in a daze wondering what the hell you are talking about, and furthermore, why they should care.

 

[Dancing David]

I don't agree with the way they teach math. For example, in Kindergarten:



That's way too simplistic. I think we should aim higher. Consider:



Really?!? I should think a kid coming out of kinder should be able to fluently do a heck of a lot more than that.

I'm all for common standards, but can we make them more challenging than what we have now?

Well, that would be nice. But many kids come from in home day care and they lack the social skills to enter KG, but in our district they learn fast.

our goal is to have them as readers by eh end of KG and be fluent in numbers.

And the reason that many states resist standards across the nation is they are rather lax.

 

[Dancing David]

In practice, a kindergarten teacher's job is to keep small children reasonably entertained,

wow, that teacher would be fired here in a hot minute.. seriously?

while you trot out the drills *and* encourage them to count stuff and take away and put it in patterns. With a lot of careful planning and sheer busywork they might be ready for freshman algebra in nine years, but it's not a sure thing; achievement is not just a matter of expectations, programming and calibration. At age 14 a lot are still in a daze wondering what the hell you are talking about, and furthermore, why they should care.

Excuse me, but when was the last time you were in a KG class?

Our KG are expected to learn the 'social curriculum', be fluent in numbers and simple addition and subtraction, be able to know at least 50 'sight words' and be reading by the time they are done.

You have set the bar ridiculously low and any KG teacher with your goals should be fired in a hot minute.

Where do you teach?


if you are teaching busy work, then maybe you should consider asking your district to re-evaluate their curriculum.

 

[Minoosh]

Excuse me, but when was the last time you were in a KG class?

Quite recently.

You have set the bar ridiculously low and any KG teacher with your goals should be fired in a hot minute.

Maybe I should have said occupied, rather than entertained, and by busy work I mean only that much of school will seem repetitious, and it is, because repetition is part of the learning process. In kindergarten we churned cream to make butter as part of a Thanksgiving lesson. We also made construction-paper pilgrims, IIRC. Kids are still doing those things. They are also counting, making patterns and gradually memorizing math facts; they are learning letter sounds and how to decode words. For the brightest ones this will sometimes seem like busywork, but for others constant repetition and reinforcement are required.

 

[Dancing David]

Hmm, so we use Everyday Reading, they are writing numbers to a hundred and doing simple arithmetic, and again there is an expectation that they will have 50 sight words and be pre-readers with an expectation of reading.

I didn't think our curricula was advanced for KG, I wouldn't judge a KG class by a thanksgiving day project.

And it isn't busy work, unless you plan to teach only ' brightest ones'.

 

[Minoosh]

Hmm, so we use Everyday Reading, they are writing numbers to a hundred and doing simple arithmetic, and again there is an expectation that they will have 50 sight words and be pre-readers with an expectation of reading.

Congratulations?

I didn't think our curricula was advanced for KG, I wouldn't judge a KG class by a thanksgiving day project.

I wasn't judging anything.

And it isn't busy work, unless you plan to teach only ' brightest ones'.

OK, there's no busywork in school.