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Common Bad Beliefs Among Atheists?

Hokulele said:
If it isn't about a movement/concept/whatever, why use that particular criteria?
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Because I'm curious about the trends between the different groups. For example, in my experience, anti-science views are more common among theists. But theism, inherently, has nothing to do with science (for or against).

And let just spell out exactly why I made this thread, as clearly as I can manage:

1. One of my goals in life is to criticize bad ideas, wherever I find them.
2. There are measurable differences between theists and atheists, and some of those differences are not strictly related to theism or atheism.
3. The claims of theists get plenty of scrutiny on this forum, and that's great.
4. In the interest of having our criticism more well-rounded, I would like to explore the claims of atheists.

Absolutely nothing I say here should be interpreted as making claims of something that all atheists say or do.

If anybody has objections to 1 through 4, please let me know.
 
I Am The Scum said:
Because I'm curious about the trends between the different groups. For example, in my experience, anti-science views are more common among theists. But theism, inherently, has nothing to do with science (for or against).

And let just spell out exactly why I made this thread, as clearly as I can manage:

1. One of my goals in life is to criticize bad ideas, wherever I find them.
2. There are measurable differences between theists and atheists, and some of those differences are not strictly related to theism or atheism.
3. The claims of theists get plenty of scrutiny on this forum, and that's great.
4. In the interest of having our criticism more well-rounded, I would like to explore the claims of atheists.

Absolutely nothing I say here should be interpreted as making claims of something that all atheists say or do.

If anybody has objections to 1 through 4, please let me know.
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That makes more sense when laid out that way. Wolfman had a number of threads that pointed out bad arguments made against religions, primarily by atheists. Here is an example:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185690

But once again, since the "bad idea" in the OP was originally made against atheists, you may want to find a better example. :D
 
I Am The Scum said:
1. One of my goals in life is to criticize bad ideas, wherever I find them.
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Everybody needs a hobby.

2. There are measurable differences between theists and atheists, and some of those differences are not strictly related to theism or atheism.
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You think?

3. The claims of theists get plenty of scrutiny on this forum, and that's great.
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Thank you.
4. In the interest of having our criticism more well-rounded, I would like to explore the claims of atheists.
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You apparently don't think we already do this. Trust me, if one of us says something stupid, we hear about it.

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I Am The Scum said:
I'm curious if any of the posters here (atheist or otherwise) would like to address any bad ideas that are common among nonbelievers. Here's my (least) favorite:

You can't reason someone out of what they did not reason themselves into.

I don't think I've ever heard a single non-atheist repeat this line. Strangely enough, however, it is quite common that atheists themselves are living counterexamples of the claim.
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I tend to agree with you here Scum. I mean it is a bad idea and contrary to what I have learned. Richard Dawkins claims some success in converting the faithful with reason and even I, (in a much more modest way), have had some success here also.
 
I Am The Scum said:
I should have been more clear on that last paragraph. Let me rephrase:

It is common that atheists have reasoned themselves out of religion, when they did not reason themselves into it.
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Why is that bad? I believe that is very good.
 
Dancing David said:
Considering the herbal supplements, probiotics, prebiotics, paleo diet, gluten fee and other fads, I would assume many atheists have many silly beliefs.
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I know lots of Christians that are also into those things. One has nothing to do with the other. Why do you feel the need to pigeon hole non-believers? The fact is, like Christians, non-believers come in every form. The only thing we necessarily share is that we have yet to hear a persuasive argument for God.
 
eerok said:
It's originally a quote from Ben Goldacre, and it refers to pseudoscience.
Originally Posted by Ben Goldacre, Bad Science

“You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.”
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Although I admire Goldacre for his writing(s), I find this statement illogical. Why is "reasoning themselves" a prerequisite to accepting a persuasive argument?
 
Sherman Bay said:
Although I admire Goldacre for his writing(s), I find this statement illogical. Why is "reasoning themselves" a prerequisite to accepting a persuasive argument?
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Generally speaking, you can arrive at a position through either your own reasoning according to how you perceive the world works, or through acceptance, via trust/faith in your sources, of what you are told by others.

Given the religious context of the quote in question, this pits secular Reason against religious Faith. Given Faith's opinion of Reason ("Reason is a whore" - Martin Luther), Faith is not likely to pay much heed to Reason. It does happen from time to time, but not often. Try arguing with the next group od Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses to come to your door.

If, however, you're going to apply the quote to non-religious situations, it's probably not so cut and dried. However, don't forget that it's possible to "religiously" adhere to any position, not just one concerning religious faith. As I like to say, I'm not religious about my atheism.

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Sherman Bay said:
Although I admire Goldacre for his writing(s), I find this statement illogical. Why is "reasoning themselves" a prerequisite to accepting a persuasive argument?
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I understand it perfectly. Religion is not peddled with logic and reason. It's not rational to believe in an invisible sky man that is not demonstrable in any way. It's an emotional inclination that is cultural and tribal. It is peddled with hope and fear. The fear of death and hell and detachment. And the hope that your life can be better and the promise of heaven.

I know some very smart people that believe in God and it's not applied reason that caused them to believe. Isaac Newton may just have been the smartest person that ever lived and he was a strong believer in God. It's not the level of intellect that distinguishes a believer and a nonbeliever. It's the application of that intellect.

So reason won't "necessarily" tear someone away from their faith, because faith isn't based on reason.
 
I Am The Scum said:
I should have been more clear on that last paragraph. Let me rephrase:

It is common that atheists have reasoned themselves out of religion, when they did not reason themselves into it.
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Why would someone try to reason themselves into religion, while they're thinking that there is no good reason to believe in religion?
I was forced to do this, though. When I was a child, my parents tried to make me believe in god by telling me that believing in god could save me from going to hell. Stupidity at its best.
I have always been contemplating about belief issues, and I haven't found a reason yet to believe in god or follow a religious doctrine, and that led me to being an atheist. It is better that way I think.
 
I Am The Scum said:
Because I'm curious about the trends between the different groups. For example, in my experience, anti-science views are more common among theists. But theism, inherently, has nothing to do with science (for or against).

And let just spell out exactly why I made this thread, as clearly as I can manage:

1. One of my goals in life is to criticize bad ideas, wherever I find them.
2. There are measurable differences between theists and atheists, and some of those differences are not strictly related to theism or atheism.
3. The claims of theists get plenty of scrutiny on this forum, and that's great.
4. In the interest of having our criticism more well-rounded, I would like to explore the claims of atheists.

Absolutely nothing I say here should be interpreted as making claims of something that all atheists say or do.

If anybody has objections to 1 through 4, please let me know.
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Not an objection, but a request for clarification:
Are you asking us to address bad beliefs held by atheists because they are atheists, or those which happen to be more common among atheists than theists? Causation or correlation?
Personally, I can't (off the top of my head) think of either. However, I would be interested to know if there are bad beliefs that are caused by, or result from atheism, in the same way that a rejection of science often results from religious literalism/ fundamentalism..
 
I have heard people claim to be atheist, but then shortly thereafter claim to think there is some sort of guiding force or spirit in the universe (sorta the pantheism idea). That's about the only real example that is truly relevant to atheism and strange beliefs that I can think of.
 
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