Comic books = pornography?

[Cinorjer]

In August, the conviction of a Dallas bookstore manager became final, for selling obscenity in the form of adult science-fiction comic books; the sales were to adults in an adults-only section, but the prosecutor's main argument about the books's alleged "danger" was merely that comic books are an art form of general appeal to children. [Chicago Sun-Times, 7-29-03]

What's with the people down South? It's been a long time since comic books were "for kids." In today's world, most comics are marketed to and bought by grown men. For that matter, why should the fact that something is in the form of a comic book automatically make it designed for children? This kind of thing just gives me another item on my list of reasons never to move down south.

 

[Cleopatra]

Hmmmm is the Art of Milo Manara or Guido Crepax pornographic?

On the other hand are their comics appropriate for children?

 

[Hexxenhammer]

That's bull-plop. They need to go arrest every Barnes & Noble manager for selling "Heavy Metal" then.

 

[Cleopatra]

That's a good idea And when they are finished with Heavy Metal they must continue with Country music

 

[zakur]

More on this case here: http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11278

 

[Hexxenhammer]

That's a good idea And when they are finished with Heavy Metal they must continue with Country music

Very funny my queen . Heavy Metal is also the name of a comic magazine with a bunch of naked women in it. It's sold at most magazine racks.

 

[Cleopatra]

LOL LOL

Of course I had no idea

Thanks for the clarification although the idea of banning Heavy Metal made me--even for an hour-- optimistic about the future of Western Civilization

 

[Mocker Wall]

Is Heavy Metal still sold now a days? I haven't seen a issue since the '80's.

 

[Hexxenhammer]

Oh sure. It's published by Kevin Eastman of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fame.

 

[Cinorjer]

The fact is, over the last year we've seen the beginning of another big campaign against pornography by both state and federal agencies. Hey, we have elections coming up! Let's get the people worked up about a safe issue. Pornography in all its forms has always been a thorn in the side of people who have never believed that the constitutional right to free speech should extend to "those nasty perverts." The religious conservatives lost this battle badly in the past, and would love to see a rematch in the Ashcroft era. For them, free speech only extends to people who are saying and showing things they don't mind watching.

Consider: Ashcroft has ordered his legal army to start bringing obscenity cases to the courts. Pornographic film companies in California have been shut down (and since product is readily available from overseas, what did that accomplish except headlines?) Just recently, they've decided to put together another task force to go after people who swap dirty pictures over the net, in the name of "ridding the world of child pornography", of course. Who can argue with that?

 

[LW]

Hmmmm is the Art of Milo Manara or Guido Crepax pornographic?

I can't now remember any particular story by Crepax, but as for Manara, he certainly has some stories that I'd classify as pornography.

 

[DrMatt]

Is the art of August Rodin pornographic? How about the art of Michelangelo? Paul Gaugin? Leonardo da Vinci?

 

[Cleopatra]

I can't now remember any particular story by Crepax

The great "Valentina"! She doesn't hesitate to take her clothes off whenever she thinks that it's the only way to save her country

but as for Manara, he certainly has some stories that I'd classify as pornography.

I happen to be a great fan of Milo Manara's work. Certainly he is walking on the edges and sometimes he crosses them but the aesthetic value of his work is so high that it doesn't really bothers you.

I think that what distinguishes pornography from art is the aesthetics.

Pornography is vulgar and it addresses the insticts. Erotic Art addresses the intelect.

At least this is how I see it, unless you persuade me on the contrary because I do not have a fixed opinion about the issue.

 

[Rayn]

Of course comic books can become "pornography."

Look at some of R. Crumbs works. Although I personally believe they're fantastic, I definitely wouldn't give them to my little sister (a minor) to read. However, I personally view these works as satirical, reflecting society through a different lens. I would like to think that they could be seen as addressing "intellect" and encouraging intelligent conversation, however, for the lowest common denominator that is the majority of the public, Crumbs works and others like him would be considered pornography. Personally, I don't see how the case could be brought as far as the sale was to adults and there was an adults-only section. Also, comic books are not just for kids, graphic novels are definitely sold to more adults than kids nowadays.

 

[Glory]

What is the legal definition of a comic book? If there isn't a definition of comic book than one cannot hope to determine wether or not a particular work appeals to children.

I didn't know that being appealing to children meant one had to be G rated. There are lots of movies which, while being inappropriate for children, are appealing to them. Likewise books, posters, clothing, music...I don't want my choices limited to whatever a court decides is appropriate for children.

This decision is obscene.

Glory

 

[Temporal Renegade]

Parents can NOT just turn their kids loose in a shop, and then act shocked and surprised when the kid brings something home that they deem obscene or improper. Whether it's a comic, or a CD, DVD, a book, etc., if the parents don't have the smarts to take an active interest in what their offspring are doing, it's their fault. Period.

Granted, some shop owners don't care, as long as they get their money. If that's the case, then they deserve to be arrested and punished, much like someone selling a HUSTLER to someone who looks 15, and can't produce I.D.

Kids, for the most part, don't care, because they know that they are the last ones to get in trouble in this type of situation; blame falls to the parents, the seller, and the producer of the material in question. No one really seems to want to nail the kid (who should know better), for whatever reason. When I was a teen, if I bought something my parents didn't think was appropriate, whoever sold it was taken to task; but, the REAL heat came down on ME.

Pornographic? Maybe some...but, that's why things are LABELED now, to help prevent this from going on.
Besides, if you don't like it, don't read it.

 

[Cinorjer]

Pornography, in and of itself, is not illegal. Playboy is pornographic, and that only means it must be restricted to adults. The crime these cases fall under is obscenity, and there lies the problem. What is obscene is whatever a jury decides is obscene. It's so broadly defined in a legal sense that conviction is almost certain. The guiding law as laid down by the Supreme Court uses archaic language that basically boils down to: does the average citizen (whoever that is) find the material contains images or discriptions that might excite people sexually, and does the material taken as a whole have no redeeming social value. Obscenity is illegal where local laws say it is, even if seen and marketed only to adults.

Obviously the jury in this case is no fan of Japanese Manga. Have one shocking scene in a story, and you're toast. The problem from a civil rights standpoint is that this is censorship allowed not because it harms someone (such as child pornography), but because it offends the community. Even if the obscene material is looked at in private, even if it's sold through the mail so nobody but the buyer sees it. It's enough that a certain segment of the community doesn't even want it in your house.

And we're going to hear more and more about Ashcroft's war against the evil obscene pornography infesting our nation. Gotta get those roght wing religious conservatives voting for Bush, Inc., after all.

 

[LucyR]

Granted, some shop owners don't care, as long as they get their money. If that's the case, then they deserve to be arrested and punished, much like someone selling a HUSTLER to someone who looks 15, and can't produce I.D.

How does viewing pornography harm people of any age? Does it cause cancer?

 

[BrianT]

How does viewing pornography harm people of any age? Does it cause cancer?

Wingnuts are afraid it could lead to independent thinking.

 

[LW]

The great "Valentina"! She doesn't hesitate to take her clothes off whenever she thinks that it's the only way to save her country

I know for certain that I've read at least few Crepax stories as I recognize the name, but I simply can't remember names or storylines.

I happen to be a great fan of Milo Manara's work. Certainly he is walking on the edges and sometimes he crosses them but the aesthetic value of his work is so high that it doesn't really bothers you.

The main thing about Manara that bothers me is that in many of his stories the plot is only an excuse to draw as many naked women as possible. While I certainly have nothing against naked women, I would like a comic to also have a coherent storyline.

Some of the albums that he coauthored with Pratt were rather good. They look like Pratt wrote the plot and drew all men while Manara drew all women. Especially the album about the Indian war (can't remember the original name, translated to Finnish as Intiaanikesä "Summer of Indians") looks like this.

I think that what distinguishes pornography from art is the aesthetics.
Pornography is vulgar and it addresses the insticts. Erotic Art addresses the intelect.[/n]

There's a rough guideline that applies to movies:

If there's a beautiful French woman who softly whispers: "slower, slower", it is erotic.

However, if there is a fat moustached German named Horst shouting: "faster, faster", it is porn.