Collapse of the WTC, need a quick answer

[swskeptic]

I have a guy that posted a comment on one of my Youtube videos that reads:

"??? Huh ??? why is it redundant to figure out the exact events of the total collapse?

If it wasn't free fall speed? Then what was the rate of descent and how do you explain it without an investigation of the events post collapse initiation?

Let's say it took 18-20 sec for the buildings to collapse... why? how? We don't know? Or do you know and the rest of us don't? What is the appropriate rate of collapse given the events that initiated the collapse? Why is this information not important?"

I said in the video it is redundant to do an investigation of the collapse itself. But I think I worded that wrong. The video was about Alex Jones' website misquoting the NIST.

Alex tried to say that the NIST admitted that they couldn't explain the collapse of the towers. But in reality what they meant was that was not part of their investigation.

I'm not sure what I meant by redundant, but I'm sure going to be re-filming that video.

Now, my question is, if it wasn't their job to investigate the collapse itself, who's was it? If it wasn't anyones, why not?

Please, help me out here, I'd like to include this in the re-filming of the episode, and I'd like to do that today.

Thank you and best regards,
-Austin

 

[Gravy]

It was NIST's job to try to determine the cause of the collapses. As they explain in their FAQs, and as the engineering community agrees, once the collapses started, relatively simple calculations show that they had to continue to the ground.

See the first and tenth questions here:
NIST Answers to Frequently Asked Questions - Supplement – December, 2007

Much more detail, calculations, etc. collected at my page here.

 

[uk_dave]

The logical assumption is that once the structure failed (the collapse initiation) the actual chaotic events which took place throughout the building all the way to the ground would be extremely difficult to model and would be unlikely to provide any useful information. It was important to find out why the structures failed, but how that failure then ended in a pile of twisted steel and rubble was not a story which could be described to the degree of accuracy expected from NIST.

We can (and PM has) describe it as a pancaking of one floor or storey onto the one below, but NIST would have to be able to say something like "Column 23b impacted upon the end of floor truss 15c causing failure at the bolt connection...." etc etc, and there is no way sufficient information is available to feed that narrative.

Unfortunately, 'truthers' just can't believe buildings fall down. Luckily for the rest of us, no 'truther' appears to be in a position to put that dangerous misconception into steel and concrete.

 

[Gravy]

Unfortunately, 'truthers' just can't believe buildings fall down. Luckily for the rest of us, no 'truther' appears to be in a position to put that dangerous misconception into steel and concrete.

That said, I ain't sailing with Heiwa!

 

[iAmerican]

Then, if you don't mind, a common sense explanation for the condition of the vertical core columns, given the notion of entropic collapse? If it's the floors "collapsing" why does the matrix of webbed columns disappear, and leave such evidence of "non-entropic" dismantle?
http://www.rense.com/general70/pphe.htm

 

[Gravy]

Then, if you don't mind, a common sense explanation for the condition of the vertical core columns, given the notion of entropic collapse? If it's the floors "collapsing" why does the matrix of webbed columns disappear, and leave such evidence of "non-entropic" dismantle?
http://www.rense.com/general70/pphe.htm

I like tapioca pudding.

By the way, that column in the Rense photo was cut with a torch, as the torch marks, slag marks, and slag sitting on top of loose rubble show. And "experts" do not say otherwise. And that snippet of an article was written by a neo-Nazi creep and conspiracy crackpot who's on the lam from the law.

Your crazy is showing.

 

[swskeptic]

Then, if you don't mind, a common sense explanation for the condition of the vertical core columns, given the notion of entropic collapse? If it's the floors "collapsing" why does the matrix of webbed columns disappear, and leave such evidence of "non-entropic" dismantle?
http://www.rense.com/general70/pphe.htm

Your kidding right? The firemen (or whomever was dismantling the site) cut that column with a torch. How many times do we have to say this?

There was no thermite/thermate there!

 

[Pardalis]

"Common sense" and rense are antonymous.

 

[swskeptic]

Also, thanks Gravy and UK Dave. I appreciate the reply and will try to re-write your responses so I can use them in my video response.

Thanks!

 

[iAmerican]

The photo cited was the first from a Google seach "WTC core columns." What became of the rather substantial core columns, given the notion of "sagging floors" collapsing? Is it being proposed that the hundred and some story columns were cut by torches after the collapse? I don't recall seeing any news footage of the core columns' remaining after the demolition of the two tall buildings. Is there an engineer or physicist who can explain why the vertical columns disappeared? It seems their strength was sufficient to carry the weight of the buildings since their construction in the Sixties. With the floors collapsing, would not the established strength of the core columns have a "lightened" load? With no horizontal shear involved, why would the core columns not remain vertical? Just out of curiosity, not that the deaths of 3,000 innocents, concommitant lies of WMD and the deaths of thousands of American G.I.'s has any bearing on the matter...to say nothing of having a draft-dodging, hypocritical closet-queen cheated into the WH stating the Constitution, "just a g.d. piece of paper," whose father killed JFK and whose g'father was Hitler's banker has anything to do with it. But please, to the "birds of Bush's feather" explain the missing core columns from a "Physics" perspective. TIA.

 

[Pardalis]

http://www.indybay.org/olduploads/wtc_core.mpg

 

[SDC]

The photo cited was the first from a Google seach "WTC core columns." What became of the rather substantial core columns, given the notion of "sagging floors" collapsing? Is it being proposed that the hundred and some story columns were cut by torches after the collapse? I don't recall seeing any news footage of the core columns' remaining after the demolition of the two tall buildings. Is there an engineer or physicist who can explain why the vertical columns disappeared? It seems their strength was sufficient to carry the weight of the buildings since their construction in the Sixties. With the floors collapsing, would not the established strength of the core columns have a "lightened" load? With no horizontal shear involved, why would the core columns not remain vertical? Just out of curiosity, not that the deaths of 3,000 innocents, concommitant lies of WMD and the deaths of thousands of American G.I.'s has any bearing on the matter...to say nothing of having a draft-dodging, hypocritical closet-queen cheated into the WH stating the Constitution, "just a g.d. piece of paper," whose father killed JFK and whose g'father was Hitler's banker has anything to do with it. But please, to the "birds of Bush's feather" explain the missing core columns from a "Physics" perspective. TIA.

Outstanding selection of themes. Actually, it's just a little too rich, don't you think? A cry from the heart shouldn't consist entirely of high points; you need some lows as well or you exhaust your audience.

For instance, is Bush a "closet-queen," or a bird? And does dragging Godwin's law into this really help?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The photo cited was the first from a Google seach "WTC core columns." What became of the rather substantial core columns, given the notion of "sagging floors" collapsing? Is it being proposed that the hundred and some story columns were cut by torches after the collapse? I don't recall seeing any news footage of the core columns' remaining after the demolition of the two tall buildings. Is there an engineer or physicist who can explain why the vertical columns disappeared? It seems their strength was sufficient to carry the weight of the buildings since their construction in the Sixties. With the floors collapsing, would not the established strength of the core columns have a "lightened" load? With no horizontal shear involved, why would the core columns not remain vertical?

so essentially your claiming that half a million tons of skyscraper collapsing around it would do nothing to damage the core?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

You know someone should do something about all those faulty plane crash investigations. They always determine what the cause of failure was, but they NEVER EVER prove how the plane managed to actually get to the ground.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

So, iAmerican, can you answer these questions? If so, then maybe you can discuss this subject intelligently.

1) What percentage of the total loads of the building were supported by the core?

2) What sections of the core were built with diagonal wind bracing and what sections were not?

3) Why?

4) If you could magically strip all the floors and the exterior walls from the towers and just the core was left, would it have been able to stand on it’s own or would it have collapsed into a pile of twisted steel?

5) Explain why you think this.

6) Are you familiar with Euler’s law in regards to column buckling? If so, how many ways do you think it could have applied to the core structure?

I honestly don't expect you to be able to answer any of those questions correctly. In fact, I fully expect you to ignore this post.

(BTW, a simple "idon't know" will work)

 

[Gravy]

Psst! iAmerican! 16 people survived in the north tower core, above grade! Where do you think all those columns at the base of the building would go?

The miracle survivors: 16 people north tower stairway B

 

[Slayhamlet]

Psst! iAmerican! 16 people survived in the north tower core, above grade! Where do you think all those columns at the base of the building would go?

The miracle survivors: 16 people north tower stairway B

[qimg]http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/photolibrary.fema.gov4060_2.jpg[/qimg]

I knew that 16 people survived the North Tower collapse in stairwell B, but I hadn't read anything about the survivors before. Amazing story, and sad. Thanks.

 

[einsteen]

I've never seen it and didn't know that. That core must be really massive especially at the bottom. They really had luck.

 

[Gravy]

The open atrium from the concourse level to the 6th floor allowed debris to flow around the core.

Jay Jonas:

The entire collapse of this 110-story building took 13 seconds. So it sounded like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, like that. And every time that happened, it shook the entire building. It shook the whole floor. So every time a floor would hit another floor, we’d be literally bouncing off the floor. We were being thrown around the stairway.

There was also this very loud sound of twisting steel all around our heads. These massive steel beams and girders were just being twisted around our heads just like they were twist ties on a loaf of bread. And a very loud, like a steel screeching sound, almost like a lot of trains coming into a subway station at the same time and all of them hitting their brakes at the same time.

There was tremendous air movement with the building coming down. The air movement was so strong that one of my fireman was standing on the fourth floor. You’ve got to figure with his gear and everything on, he’s well over 200 pounds. He’s about 180 pounds and with his gear, you gotta figure he’s about 250 pounds. This wind kind of picked him up and threw him down two fights of stairs.

We were getting hit with all kinds of debris. Thank God it was nothing that was going to really hurt us, but after it was all over, it was almost like we kind of got mugged. We were all bruised up and small cuts and things like that.

And then the collapse stopped.

In a day of first experiences for everybody, well here’s another one. I can’t believe we just survived that. It was very quick and during the collapse you couldn’t help but think that this is it. It’s over. This is how it ends. I kept waiting for that big beam to hit or that big piece of concrete to come down and crush us.

It never came. Source

einsteen, I think your avatar is in very bad taste.
http://archive.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jonas.htm

 

[pomeroo]

The photo cited was the first from a Google seach "WTC core columns." What became of the rather substantial core columns, given the notion of "sagging floors" collapsing? Is it being proposed that the hundred and some story columns were cut by torches after the collapse? I don't recall seeing any news footage of the core columns' remaining after the demolition of the two tall buildings. Is there an engineer or physicist who can explain why the vertical columns disappeared? It seems their strength was sufficient to carry the weight of the buildings since their construction in the Sixties. With the floors collapsing, would not the established strength of the core columns have a "lightened" load? With no horizontal shear involved, why would the core columns not remain vertical?

Just out of curiosity, not that the deaths of 3,000 innocents, concommitant lies of WMD and the deaths of thousands of American G.I.'s has any bearing on the matter...to say nothing of having a draft-dodging, hypocritical closet-queen cheated into the WH stating the Constitution, "just a g.d. piece of paper," whose father killed JFK and whose g'father was Hitler's banker has anything to do with it. But please, to the "birds of Bush's feather" explain the missing core columns from a "Physics" perspective. TIA.

Although you remain in a close contest for the title of Dumbest Twoofer Alive, you have managed to cram the greatest number of nonsensically silly lies into a single sentence. Good job!