Merged Cold Fusion Claims

Status
Not open for further replies.
True, but how many "game"s have a possible 1000 to 1 (or better) return?
How many lottery tickets have you bought this year? You can get returns that make 1000:1 look weak.

I'm not "risk-averse" (my investments are pretty aggressive for my age), but I'm pretty fraud-averse. Rossi has significant credibility problems (jail plus thermocouple incident plus fake-journal web site), and the "used" nickel samples he supplied just scream "fake." See this post:

I have three questions...

The upshot:

Even if I could get 1000:1 return on what I thought was a 100:1 shot, I wouldn't do it. It would theoretically multiply my money by 10 on average, but I'd have to do so many trials before succeeding that I don't view it as being worthwhile.

At the moment, I don't view Rossi as even having a 1,000:1 shot of being genuine, so I'd view the prospect of multiplying my money by 1,000 as a losing proposition.
 
At the moment, I don't view Rossi as even having a 1,000:1 shot of being genuine, so I'd view the prospect of multiplying my money by 1,000 as a losing proposition.

Ok, so you are a no, too.

Anyone else willing to go on record?
 
I think my offer is specific enough.

Sure it's specific. Too bad it doesn't answer the question.

Should I put you down as a no regarding my original question? :D

I really couldn't care less about your question. This is about MY question;

Come December, under what conditions will you admit you were wrong?

ETA: Or are you saying that someone taking your bet is a necessary but insufficient precondition to admitting you were wrong?
 
Last edited:
LOL!

If you actually have $1,000,000 in assets that you are willing to risk, here's the deal I will accept. I put $1000 in cash into an escrow account. You put a verifiable million in assets (cash, diamonds, gold, property deeds, etc) in the same mutually agreed upon account. We draw up an agreement where if in one year Rossi's claim to have achieved what's being described as cold fusion isn't obviously true (i.e, no MW power plant or something equally convincing), you get the entire contents of the account. But if there is a power plant generating a MW or similar proof that his e-cat works, I get the contents of the account. No "might give". Only *will give*.

Still game? :D

You know WHO is risk adverse ? People like you which always put an HEAVIER financial burden on the skeptic , than on themselves. How about you bet 1 to 1000 ? I put 1 $ and if Rossi is right you win it, but if Rossi is wrong, you give me 1000$. A photo of oneself grovelling before a sign saying "I told you so" is acceptable for both party to give instead of money.
 
Last edited:
So I'll put you in the no, *I'm so convinced that even if I were offered a chance to get in on the ground floor and invest that $100 in Rossi's venture, I'd say no* camp. Even the possibility that the $100 might turn in to hundreds of thousands of dollars soon wouldn't sway you.

Anyone else?

I don't play the lottery, even though there's an infinitesimal chance that my dollar can turn into millions. That's an even greater rate of return, but it's still a wasted dollar when you do the math.

This is more like poker, in that it's a game of human perceptions as well as probabilities. We get to make guesses as to if he's bluffing and either keep our money or bet it. My educated guess is that he's bluffing, so the expected return on my money is zero. I won't throw a single dollar away on zero return, unless it's for a good cause. In my book, financing a conman in his latest swindle doesn't count as a good cause.

By the way, my criteria for 'is he bluffing' comes down to 'If I was a bad man and wanted to cheat people, could I replicate this effect through fraud, given the same conditions he has'. In this case the answer is yes. For somewhere less than a thousand dollars or so, I could make a reactor that would do everything that Rossi's has done, especially if I also refused to let anyone look inside. The only difference is that I'm not trying to take your money, and I'd freely admit that I was using nothing but trickery and showmanship.

The greatest moments in science didn't start with the mythical 'eureka' moment; they started with someone looking at data and saying 'hey that's odd'. When a real scientist gets a 'hey, that's odd' moment that they can't figure out they get lots and lots of eyes on the data, and get lots of other people trying to replicate it because a 'hey that's odd' can be something real or it can be an error and they want to know which one, and as soon as possible. Even the lenr saints, pons and fleischman eventually got to that stage, unfortunately AFTER they tried to do science by press release.

When a 'scientist' says they had a 'hey that's odd' moment but that they kept it secret for fear of (insert conspiracy organization) shutting them down, when they try to take it straight from inspiraton to salable product without the research, when they actually don't keep it secret but tell everyone or at least everyone they want money from, when they never ever let anyone see what's in the box or behind the curtain, that's a conman with a magic trick.

If there's one thing ya'all should take away from this site and the man it's named after, its that con men are capable of fooling scientists because scientists are good at science but not good at confidence games.
 
How about the rest of you *skeptics*? Willing to take the offer I graciously made to Horatius but he declined? :p

You want someone to put up a million dollars for a 0.1% return? That's lousy, even for a really solid investment. I'd go with T-bills instead of that just because I'd want a better return.

As far as investing in Rossi goes, I'd have to decline. Not because I know he's wrong, but because I don't know enough about it to evaluate whether it's a good investment or not.
 
So Horatius, I take it you aren't quite as confident of the outcome as you claimed? :D

How about the rest of you *skeptics*? Willing to take the offer I graciously made to Horatius but he declined? :p



No, it's that I don't have the $1 000 000 to put into escrow, as you demanded. And even if I did, tying up that amount of money for most of a year for a return of $1 000 is just stupid.

But nice try at making it look like I'm the one being inconsistent.
 
If given the opportunity, and I could be assured I'd get a percentage of the profits if it succeeds, yes.

In other words, no you won't.

That aside, I'm really at a loss as to what point you think you're making. Most people here think Rossi is either a fraud or simply utterly incompetent. Obviously it would be incredibly stupid to give him money in either case, so of course no-one who thinks that is going to say they'd be willing to give him money. So what the hell is your point? Do you really think you're pulling some kind of gotcha? "Ha ha, these people who think Rossi is a fraud won't give him money!" Well duh.

So were you actually trying to engage in intelligent conversation, or are you just going to carry on spamming nonsense that was already obvious to every single other person, on both sides, in the thread,?
 
Cuddles, I think he is employing a common psychic's trick.

Predict lots and lots of things, most of which of course never come to pass and are forgotten. BUT, when you get lucky and something tolerably close to one of your predictions happens, you can hold that over everybody else as "proof" or your "superior powers."
 
I'm just curious. Given all that is currently known, would any of you take the opportunity to invest a $1000 in Rossi's venture for a small share of future profits? If Rossi's is for real, that $1000 would probably be worth millions just a few years from now? So how risk averse are you skeptics? :D

Put me down as a solid NO. Matter of fact, I'm going to go one step further and put a Hell in front of that NO.

I trust I'll be eating crow on this at about the same time as Paul Bethke makes good on his vow to strike me blind.
 
Still playing quizmaster I see. And now its in bold print!! WOW!

So you just have arm wave at some sites of Storm's and a paper about fraud.

What is a research paper you feel supports LENR?
Iteration1

I begin to wonder what exactly is the research you feel supports LENR, like a specific paper. maybe you don't have any.
 
You know WHO is risk adverse ? People like you which always put an HEAVIER financial burden on the skeptic , than on themselves. How about you bet 1 to 1000 ? I put 1 $ and if Rossi is right you win it, but if Rossi is wrong, you give me 1000$. A photo of oneself grovelling before a sign saying "I told you so" is acceptable for both party to give instead of money.

LOL! There are several reasons I won't accept that offer.

First, I'm not that certain. I've not once suggested that I was certain enough to make a 1000 to 1 odds bet. But many of you so-called *skeptics* seem to express that degree of certainty. I'm just testing if you really mean it. ;)

Second, an additional dollar is worth next nothing to me. For that matter, even a $1000 isn't worth much to me (it's certainly not life changing). But a $1000000 could be quite useful. I will "risk" for a million dollar payoff. Hence, my bet to you folks. Maybe I'd do it for a half million. My $500 against your half million? How about that? You still certain you are right? You have a half million to spare? :cool:

Bottom line is I asked a quite reasonable question. If you could "invest" in stock in Rossi's venture at this time with the possibility of a huge return on that investment, would you? And you said no. That's ok. I on the other hand would do it. I guess, come December, we will know who was right and would be groveling had we made your meaningless bet. Or who would be far richer had we made mine. :D

And by the way, my offer of a $1000 for a $1000000 is not meaningless. I would do what I offered in a second. Any of the other *skeptics* on this thread want to take me up on the offer? Since you've indicated you are so *certain* that Rossi is a fraud? :D
 
The greatest moments in science didn't start with the mythical 'eureka' moment; they started with someone looking at data and saying 'hey that's odd'.

And how do you know that isn't exactly what happened to Rossi? How do you know he didn't have a "that's odd" moment? ;)

When a real scientist gets a 'hey, that's odd' moment that they can't figure out they get lots and lots of eyes on the data, and get lots of other people trying to replicate it because a 'hey that's odd' can be something real or it can be an error and they want to know which one, and as soon as possible.

But who claimed Rossi is just a scientist ... doing this for science? Not Rossi. I'm certainly not under that delusion. He's clearly doing it for the money. Much like an engineer would USE a physical phenomena, even if he didn't totally understand it, to reach some USEFUL end. And make money. He's doing something complete consistent with the notion of "trade secrets". Has Coke revealed it's formula? No? Does that make a coke a fraud?

Tell you what. You want science from Rossi? Then you and the *skeptics* talk the US Patent office into giving him the patent he asked for, so that in the event he's real, his intellectual property is protected. That's what he's said he's waiting for. And if it is indeed a scam, what harm could that do? What harm could issuing a patent on a scam do? Seriously. :jaw-dropp
 
Originally Posted by BeAChooser
If given the opportunity, and I could be assured I'd get a percentage of the profits if it succeeds, yes.

In other words, no you won't.

And how do you reach that conclusion? The fact is that the opportunity hasn't been given. If it were, I'd take it. And I'm simply asking for a valid contract assuring I'd profit if the venture succeeds ... much like stocks work. And in fact I've demonstrated I'd be willing with my 1 to 1000 offer. I take it, Cuddles, you are really, really, really, really certain that Rossi's device doesn't work. If you're that sure, do you have a million you'd like to spare? :D

Most people here think Rossi is either a fraud or simply utterly incompetent.

No, most people (at least in the US) have not even heard of this so they can't think anything about it. Go ahead, test that, Cuddles. I have. Out of a dozen people I've mentioned Rossi too so far, not one had heard of him or this controversy. NOT ONE. And these are reasonably informed people. They don't live in a cave.

Obviously it would be incredibly stupid to give him money in either case

You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to think you're just risk averse. :D

So were you actually trying to engage in intelligent conversation, or are you just going to carry on spamming nonsense that was already obvious to every single other person, on both sides, in the thread,?

Really? You think it was that obvious that you folks were soooooo certain that you would pass up the opportunity to make millions from a $1000? :rolleyes:

Frankly, I think what will be established come December (or thereabouts) is which of us is a better judge of risk and which of us is the better skeptic. ;)

Nice to have you on record. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom