Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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unclep2k said:
Nothing scientific, but kind of an interesting look at what is going on in Greece with Rossi: coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2011/05/07/cold-fusion-economy-supported-by-greek-government/
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too true...Nothing scientific. Absolutely nothing.
 
Aepervius said:
ACtually then italian patent number/link was provided, I went there there is nothing but a number and to whom it was given, no description, nothing.

Worthless.
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Was it? Where was it provided? I don't remember it being in this thread, but I might be wrong.

I have access to resources that could probably find out more about it than what you've described, if I have the number.
 
uibm.gov.it/uibm/dati/Avanzata.aspx?load=info_list_uno&id=1610895&table=Invention&#ancoraSearch%20Patent%20Issued%20by%20Italian%20Patent%20Office This patent is only good for Italy. the one that covers Europe will be much tougher to get. I saw a tv clip of a repreresentative of the group in Greece that will be manufacturing and marketing the ecats. The guy claimed they had in their possession the actual production model as it will be built. Said it works great.
 
Only noteworthy thing about the Greek group running Defkalion Green is that they are all prominate, educated people. Not a bunch of apparent knuckleheads. I'm sure that also means nothing, but i had to notice.
 
unclep2k said:
uibm.gov.it/uibm/dati/Avanzata.aspx?load=info_list_uno&id=1610895&table=Invention&#ancoraSearch%20Patent%20Issued%20by%20Italian%20Patent%20Office This patent is only good for Italy. the one that covers Europe will be much tougher to get. I saw a tv clip of a repreresentative of the group in Greece that will be manufacturing and marketing the ecats. The guy claimed they had in their possession the actual production model as it will be built. Said it works great.
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Monty Python and the Holy Grail said:
GUARD: This is the castle of Our Master Ruiz' de lu la Ramper
ARTHUR: Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he will give us food and shelter for the night he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail.
GUARD: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen... Uh, he's already got one, you see?
ARTHUR: What?
GALAHAD: He says they've already got one!
ARTHUR: Are you sure he's got one?
GUARD: Oh, yes, it's very nice-a [To Other Guards] I told him we already got one.
OTHER GUARDS: [Laughing]
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This seems appropriate.
 
I qualified that statement. I said the guy claimed. I didn't say whether I believed him or not.
 
So small that if it were represented by a sand grain in the middle of the Sahara, it would still be too large in proportion to the desert.
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Excellent. My estimate is 25% chance. I propose an equitable split of out estimated odds 0.125:1. If the e-cat is shown to work withing one year of today (beyond a reasonable doubt) you give me 100$. If the e-cat is shown to be a fraud within one year I give you 12.50$.

That seems fair to me, since you are so sure that the odds of it being real are 0.

Agreed?
 
The European patent will be very difficult to get because a professor named Piantelli has already patented a device very similar. Amazingly similar minus the catalyst. Piantelli and Focardi ( Rossi's partner now) did research together in the 1990s using powereed nickle and hydrogen. Had some results and were published in journals. Could not get enough energy to make it commercially viable. The patent was not renewed and has expired
 
Crawdaddy said:
Excellent. My estimate is 25% chance. I propose an equitable split of out estimated odds 0.125:1. If the e-cat is shown to work withing one year of today (beyond a reasonable doubt) you give me 100$. If the e-cat is shown to be a fraud within one year I give you 12.50$.

That seems fair to me, since you are so sure that the odds of it being real are 0.

Agreed?
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Even money, take it or leave it. Because $12.50 isn't enough like a valuable lesson.
 
Crawdaddy said:
What is your estimated probability that this is real?
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If this was done with good tools and measurement, very high, but since this is done with inadequate tools and measures, not as good. It could be real, it seems unlikely given the data as it stands.

If there was good calibration and measure of the electrical power, if there was good measure of the heat produced, then things would be different for me...

I am willing to believe physics can be stood on its head, but not on the current data as given.
 
unclep2k said:
Only noteworthy thing about the Greek group running Defkalion Green is that they are all prominate, educated people. Not a bunch of apparent knuckleheads. I'm sure that also means nothing, but i had to notice.
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Even a knucklehead can use adequate protocols and genius ineffective ones.
 
Crawdaddy said:
Excellent. My estimate is 25% chance. I propose an equitable split of out estimated odds 0.125:1. If the e-cat is shown to work withing one year of today (beyond a reasonable doubt) you give me 100$. If the e-cat is shown to be a fraud within one year I give you 12.50$.

That seems fair to me, since you are so sure that the odds of it being real are 0.

Agreed?
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No, the offer was even steven, not 4:1.

And the money was to charity.
 
Even money, take it or leave it. Because $12.50 isn't enough like a valuable lesson.
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An even money bet is not fair. I would make it 100$ if I thought there was any chance in hell of you coming up with 800 bucks if you lost.

If I think the thing has a 25% chance of being real why would I take an even money bet?

If you think the thing has a zero percent chance then any odds are unfair... even odds even more so and proves nothing about levels of woo.
 
My first post here. Hi.

This is an excerpt from Rossi's patent. Make of it what you will.

.....
The positron forms the electron antiparticle, and
hence, as positrons impact against the nickel electrons, the
electron-positron pairs are annihilated, thereby generating a
huge amount of energy.

[0036] In fact, few grams of Ni and H would produce an
energy amount equivalent to that of thousands oil tons, as it
will become more apparent hereinafter, without pollutions,
greenhouse effects, or carbon dioxide increases, nuclear and
other waste materials, since the radioactive copper isotopes
produced in the process will decay to stable nickel isotopes by
beta+processes, in a very short time.

[0037] For clearly understanding the following detailed
discussion of the apparatus, it is necessary to at first consider
that for allowing nickel to be transformed into stable copper,
it is necessary to respect the quantic laws. Accordingly, it is
indispensable to use, for the above mentioned exothermal
reactions, a nickel isotope having a mass number of 62, to
allow it to transform into a stable copper isotope 62. All the
other Ni isotopes, on the other hand, will generate unstable
Cu, and, accordingly, a beta decay.
.....

Stable copper-62. Because... 9 1/2 minutes is stable. Ahem.

Thoughts?
 
Crawdaddy said:
An even money bet is not fair. I would make it 100$ if I thought there was any chance in hell of you coming up with 800 bucks if you lost.

If I think the thing has a 25% chance of being real why would I take an even money bet?

If you think the thing has a zero percent chance then any odds are unfair... even odds even more so and proves nothing about levels of woo.
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why do you get to call the odds?
 
unclep2k said:
uibm.gov.it/uibm/dati/Avanzata.aspx?load=info_list_uno&id=1610895&table=Invention&#ancoraSearch%20Patent%20Issued%20by%20Italian%20Patent%20Office This patent is only good for Italy. the one that covers Europe will be much tougher to get. I saw a tv clip of a repreresentative of the group in Greece that will be manufacturing and marketing the ecats. The guy claimed they had in their possession the actual production model as it will be built. Said it works great.
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That link doesn't seem to actually work. Just give me the number; I can find the rest myself.


unclep2k said:
The European patent will be very difficult to get because a professor named Piantelli has already patented a device very similar. Amazingly similar minus the catalyst. Piantelli and Focardi ( Rossi's partner now) did research together in the 1990s using powereed nickle and hydrogen. Had some results and were published in journals. Could not get enough energy to make it commercially viable. The patent was not renewed and has expired
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If this is true, then the Italian patent probably shouldn't have issued either. Prior art is usually the single biggest bar to getting a patent. If the Italian Office didn't cite this reference, it makes you wonder how through a job they did.
 
Fedora320 said:
My first post here. Hi.

This is an excerpt from Rossi's patent. Make of it what you will.

.....
The positron forms the electron antiparticle, and
hence, as positrons impact against the nickel electrons, the
electron-positron pairs are annihilated, thereby generating a
huge amount of energy.

[0036] In fact, few grams of Ni and H would produce an
energy amount equivalent to that of thousands oil tons, as it
will become more apparent hereinafter, without pollutions,
greenhouse effects, or carbon dioxide increases, nuclear and
other waste materials, since the radioactive copper isotopes
produced in the process will decay to stable nickel isotopes by
beta+processes, in a very short time.

[0037] For clearly understanding the following detailed
discussion of the apparatus, it is necessary to at first consider
that for allowing nickel to be transformed into stable copper,
it is necessary to respect the quantic laws. Accordingly, it is
indispensable to use, for the above mentioned exothermal
reactions, a nickel isotope having a mass number of 62, to
allow it to transform into a stable copper isotope 62. All the
other Ni isotopes, on the other hand, will generate unstable
Cu, and, accordingly, a beta decay.
.....

Stable copper-62. Because... 9 1/2 minutes is stable. Ahem.

Thoughts?
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Basic crank gibberish.
It takes a larger "huge amount of energy" to create the positron in the first paragraph as the positron-electron annihilation releases.
[0036] is an unsupported assertion.
[0037]: What are "quantic laws"? If he means quantum mechanics then these are the laws that say the fusion in his apparatus is impossibel!

And as you point out Cu-62 is not stable as it has a half-life of 9.673(8) min9.673(8) min (basic ignorance fromn Rossi).
 
Crawdaddy said:
An even money bet is not fair. I would make it 100$ if I thought there was any chance in hell of you coming up with 800 bucks if you lost.

If I think the thing has a 25% chance of being real why would I take an even money bet?

If you think the thing has a zero percent chance then any odds are unfair... even odds even more so and proves nothing about levels of woo.
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In two years the eCat will not be available for sale to the public, or, if it is, it will either be subject to repeated delivery delays, or will be the subject of at least one lawsuit for non-performance (not by me), or the units will be known not to work.

"Available to the public" precludes Draconian government regulation.

"Repeated delivery delays" applies particularly to catalyst production, but may apply to other components, especially electronics. Delays due to overwhelming demand are excluded, so long as the backlog of orders is being diminished by shipping operational units at some reasonable rate. As a first cut, a reasonable shipping rate is 100 units per week.

Delivered eCat excess power shall be at least 1000%.

Five grand. Even odds. I believe our confidence levels are identical. Think of the satisfaction.

This is sucker money, since you have not thought through the implications of Rossi's claims. But I'll take it anyways.
 
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