Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[BenBurch]

Even people making Fusors and Polywells have more credibility, because there is a reason these things SHOULD work.

And they measure neutrons and Helium on a consistent basis.

Their only problem is that they do not reach break-even.

 

[Horatius]

Hot fusion researchers have a huge level of credibility. There are large numbers of people with access to the raw data, and their not-perfectly-raw data is published extensively---a "hot fusion" paper does not take the form of a press-conference saying "look, 12kW". It takes the form of a huge pile of graphs, diagnostics, etc.

Not to mention the little fact that anyone who builds their own equipment and runs their own experiments gets results consistent with the results reported, which is one thing notably absent from any kind of "cold fusion" or "LENR" experiments.

 

[Hindmost]

I was wondering today...how many earth shattering discoveries were made in a sooper seekrit manner. I can't think of any.

glenn

 

[BenBurch]

Homebrew polywell project; http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/

 

[Dancing David]

You already have as much data as you'll get for a while. No radiation measured during or after operation. 12 kW output with much less than 12kW input. Temperature rise from <20 C to steam at 102 C. Reports are published.

And the data is? A letter or what?

 

[Dancing David]

If you were given input and output temperatures and flow rates would you consider that data or would it also be anecdotal unless you measured everything yourself?

That would be a start. But the use of power meters is ridiculous, something thata ctually displayed the levels of amps, volts and watss would be nice. I wonder how many labs use power meters in their electrical engineering.

The commercial meters are not exactly what you would call precision equipment.

 

[Chronopolitan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ny_Teknik

in this piece:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energ...cle3081694.ece

"“We will open up a heating plant of one megawatt in Athens, Greece this Fall,” Andrea Rossi told Ny Teknik.
Rossi is the inventor of the ‘energy catalyst’ demonstrated recently in Italy, that is based possibly on cold fusion."

*WTF*?!

EDIT:
And here's the interview with observing Prof. Giuseppe Levi (Univ. of Bologna)
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energ...cle3083834.ece

Does anyone know this guy?

This seems too elaborate to be a hoax...

Levi was invited as "the sceptic". Normally, con people don't let you use your own equipment for measuring. Nor do they let you lay hands on the device.

 

[Chronopolitan]

The commercial meters are not exactly what you would call precision equipment.

Hmm... the input/output ratio seems a litte TOO odd to call for more precise instruments.
Unless they have prepared the wall socket they used to get the 400W in, there's no explanation. HHO reacting also seems an unlikely explanation.

The utmost scepticism would in this case result in a conspiracy theory: all the professors worked together to raise gigantic sums of money for their labs... But since cold fusion is impossible, it must be the truth

In my opinion, this seems more like a breakthrough. Since "cold fusion" is scorched earth for most magazines, the only way to establish it would indeed be commercial use. If it works, scientists can come later for the theory...

Problems arise: this seems to be very quickly adaptable for everyday use and ideal for decentralized energy supply.
Nickel is not very rare either...
This will kill the oil industry.
Thus maybe the oil industry will kill the cold fusion guys first or at least try to sabotage the one Megawatt effort. (if true)

 

[Andy_Ross]

Please, not the Oil Industry conspiracy.
Do you think they employ teams of Hitmen that go round the world killing inventors?

If it works as advertised wy do they need to put 400W in when they are getting Kilowatts out? If it is real it is self sustaining.

 

[Dancing David]

Hmm... the input/output ratio seems a litte TOO odd to call for more precise instruments.
Unless they have prepared the wall socket they used to get the 400W in, there's no explanation. HHO reacting also seems an unlikely explanation.

The utmost scepticism would in this case result in a conspiracy theory: all the professors worked together to raise gigantic sums of money for their labs... But since cold fusion is impossible, it must be the truth

In my opinion, this seems more like a breakthrough. Since "cold fusion" is scorched earth for most magazines, the only way to establish it would indeed be commercial use. If it works, scientists can come later for the theory...

Problems arise: this seems to be very quickly adaptable for everyday use and ideal for decentralized energy supply.
Nickel is not very rare either...
This will kill the oil industry.
Thus maybe the oil industry will kill the cold fusion guys first or at least try to sabotage the one Megawatt effort. (if true)

What is the evidence that it makes how much heat and why not meter the electricity precisely?

 

[BenBurch]

Please, not the Oil Industry conspiracy.
Do you think they employ teams of Hitmen that go round the world killing inventors?

If it works as advertised wy do they need to put 400W in when they are getting Kilowatts out? If it is real it is self sustaining.

Not that I think these guys have anything, but that argument does not hold in all cases.

A Thorium Energy Amplifier needs a power input to operate. And that one is a sound concept.

 

[technoextreme]

That would be a start. But the use of power meters is ridiculous, something thata ctually displayed the levels of amps, volts and watss would be nice. I wonder how many labs use power meters in their electrical engineering.

The commercial meters are not exactly what you would call precision equipment.

Hahahahaha..... Muahahhahaah...... Hahahahahhaahaha..... A power meter????? A power meter??????? In all seriousness as someone who does work in power systems (fuel cells, batteries, solar cells etc.) you would use a potentiostat/galvanostat.

 

[Evilgiraffe]

Please, not the Oil Industry conspiracy.
Do you think they employ teams of Hitmen that go round the world killing inventors?

The Big Oil conspiracy against the small-time energy inventor has always flummoxed me. If these energy contraptions actually work, why would Big Oil bury them rather than commercialising them and becoming even more mind-bubblingly rich? I mean they're meant to be evil, not stupid.

 

[Hindmost]

Hmm... the input/output ratio seems a litte TOO odd to call for more precise instruments.
Unless they have prepared the wall socket they used to get the 400W in, there's no explanation. HHO reacting also seems an unlikely explanation.

The utmost scepticism would in this case result in a conspiracy theory: all the professors worked together to raise gigantic sums of money for their labs... But since cold fusion is impossible, it must be the truth

In my opinion, this seems more like a breakthrough. Since "cold fusion" is scorched earth for most magazines, the only way to establish it would indeed be commercial use. If it works, scientists can come later for the theory...

Problems arise: this seems to be very quickly adaptable for everyday use and ideal for decentralized energy supply.
Nickel is not very rare either...
This will kill the oil industry.
Thus maybe the oil industry will kill the cold fusion guys first or at least try to sabotage the one Megawatt effort. (if true)

If true? I recommend you read what has been posted here about how ridiculous this claim is.

by the way, what is HHO reacting in your post? I hope you are not referencing the brown's gas garbage.

glenn

 

[Andy_Ross]

Not that I think these guys have anything, but that argument does not hold in all cases.

A Thorium Energy Amplifier needs a power input to operate. And that one is a sound concept.

Can't agree, they are claiming to produce a lot of energy, if it isn't self sustaining then there is something very wrong.

 

[Horatius]

The utmost scepticism would in this case result in a conspiracy theory: all the professors worked together to raise gigantic sums of money for their labs... But since cold fusion is impossible, it must be the truth

......


Thus maybe the oil industry will kill the cold fusion guys first or at least try to sabotage the one Megawatt effort. (if true)

The irony is strong with this one.....

 

[ben m]

Can't agree, they are claiming to produce a lot of energy, if it isn't self sustaining then there is something very wrong.

Well, there's the incompetence defense. Supposing you'd invented a free energy machine that needs 100W of electricity input, and makes 1000W heat output. And further suppose that you're not competent-enough engineer to build or buy a generator. Voila---it's infinite energy but not "self sustaining".

 

[BenBurch]

Can't agree, they are claiming to produce a lot of energy, if it isn't self sustaining then there is something very wrong.

This makes heat, and takes an electrical input. To be self-sustaining such a thing needs a boiler and a turbine and a generator. That it does not have those when demonstrated does not in itself prove they have nothing.

 

[Chronopolitan]

The Big Oil conspiracy against the small-time energy inventor has always flummoxed me. If these energy contraptions actually work, why would Big Oil bury them rather than commercialising them and becoming even more mind-bubblingly rich? I mean they're meant to be evil, not stupid.

Most of these "contraptions" including cold fusion could be built by able DIY people in no time. That's not what I call "commercializing".

 

[Chronopolitan]

If true? I recommend you read what has been posted here about how ridiculous this claim is.

by the way, what is HHO reacting in your post? I hope you are not referencing the brown's gas garbage.

glenn

I don't want to remind you about how ridiculous a self-powerd flying machine was around 1900...

HHO = knallgas, just burning the hydrogen. This would definitely not get more energy out than the energy put in for electrolysis.
But Giuseppe Levi measured the hydrogen used up in the process and calculated that it can't be responsible for the output.