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Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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JoelKatz

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Apparently, Andrea A. Rossi (I think his web site is at journal-of-nuclear-physics.com) is now claiming to have a device that takes 400W in and produces 15KW out. It's roughly the size of a large suitcase and claimed to be able to run for six months, powered on about 1 gram of nickel.

peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_A._Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Generator

I'm guessing it's an investment scam, as these things usually are. But he's claimed an unusually tight timetable, which usually makes it hard to make much money on this kind of thing.

Does anyone have any links to skeptical articles on this particular claim or Andrea Rossi generally?
 
Apparently, Andrea A. Rossi (I think his web site is at journal-of-nuclear-physics.com) is now claiming to have a device that takes 400W in and produces 15KW out. It's roughly the size of a large suitcase and claimed to be able to run for six months, powered on about 1 gram of nickel.

peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_A._Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Generator

I'm guessing it's an investment scam, as these things usually are. But he's claimed an unusually tight timetable, which usually makes it hard to make much money on this kind of thing.

Does anyone have any links to skeptical articles on this particular claim or Andrea Rossi generally?

Fusing nickel seems to be an excessively hard way to go...
...unless it is in a NiCad battery? :)
 
I just assumed his claim was that the nickel was somehow helping him to fuse the hydrogen. But he does seem to be talking about consuming the nickel, so who knows.
 
Does anyone have any links to skeptical articles on this particular claim or Andrea Rossi generally?



No skeptical articles, but your link includes a link to the international patent application they filed on this device.

There's a few things in this application that stand out to me as signs they know they don't have a real device, and are trying to sneak it through the various patent offices.


First off, the patent is classified as C01B 3/00 under the International Patent Classification (IPC) system. That class covers:

C01 INORGANIC CHEMISTRY

C01B NON-METALLIC ELEMENTS; COMPOUNDS THEREOF

3/00 Hydrogen; Gaseous mixtures containing hydrogen; Separation of hydrogen from mixtures containing it (separation of gases by physical means B01D); Purification of hydrogen (production of water-gas or synthesis gas from solid carbonaceous material C10J; purifying or modifying the chemical compositions of combustible gases containing carbon monoxide C10K) [3]

The IPC is usually based on the broadest independent claims (the part of a patent that legally defines their patent protection, or the desired protection in the case of a application for patent). That suggests to me that they've written their claims in such as way as to obscure the "cold fusion" aspects of their work. Note that, as classified, it would be examined by a chemist, who might not know much about fusion, and the cold fusion claims in particular.

Looking at claim 1, my suspicions are confirmed:

1. A method for carrying out an isothermal reaction of nickel and hydrogen, characterized in -that said method comprises injecting hydrogen into a metal tube filled by a nickel powder, even of nanometric dimensions, or nickel granules or bars, in a high temperature and pressurized hydrogen gas saturated environment, thereby generating energy.


Notice there is no mention of where the "energy" comes from, and of course it's possible for a chemical reaction to be able to produce energy. In fact, the word "fusion" isn't used anywhere in the claims. There's an allusion to fusion in claim 15:

15. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said exothermal reaction is a multiple exothermal reaction, adapted to provide different atoms depending on an amount of protons interacting with nickel nuclei.

But "adapted to provide different atoms" is so vague that it could mean almost anything if the examiner notices it, and challenges them on this point.

His description does discuss his theory that the energy is generated by fusion (and he also mentions fission, at one point, that's pretty weird!), but one quirk of patent law is that an inventor cannot be denied a patent just because their theory of how it works is incorrect, so long as the device actually works. He even covers his butt a bit on this front:

The exothermal reaction thereon Applicant's invention is based differs from those adopted by prior searchers since the inventor has not tried to demonstrate an emission of elementary particles supporting a validity of a theory, but he has exclusively tried to provide an amount of energy larger than the consumed energy amount, to just achieve a practical method and apparatus for generating an energy amount larger than the consumed energy, and this by exploiting nuclear energy generating processes starting from electrochemical energy. Thus, the inventive apparatus has been specifically designed for producing the above mentioned energy in a reliable, easily controllable, safe, repeatable manner, for any desired applications.

...essentially saying, "I haven't even tried to prove it's fusion, I just want it to work!"

So, based on a reading of their patent application, I suspect they know it's bogus, and as such, doesn't actually work. If they thought it did, why would they obscure their true invention, and in fact draw attention to the fact that they haven't even tried to prove it's really fusion?



I'll also note that, despite all that, if you read the International Preliminary Report on Patentability, the international examiner still isn't buying it. So it seems we're making progress on these sorts of crap patent applications.
 
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Rossi and Focardi Energy Amplifier: Reality or Scam?
Posted on January 14, 2011 by Steven B. Krivit

Journal of Nuclear Physics? Really?

- A web site registered in California by a secret entity.
- A “journal” that is not a journal but a blog.
- A blog name that resembles the (real) former Soviet Journal of Nuclear Physics.
- A virtual “editor” comprised of a “team of scientists.”
- A “team of scientists” who’s only active participant appears to be Andrea Rossi.
- A “10 kW module reactor” that is anybody’s guess.

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/14/focardi-and-rossi-reality-or-scam/
 
Since when did an 'invention' have to work to be patented? It only has to be novel.



There has always been a requirement for a device to have "utility", that is, some useful function. A non-functional device would have no utility. Unfortunately, the realities of examination and the jurisprudence has watered this down significantly, but the requirement is still there in the law, and can still be applied if the examiner is willing to make the effort.

And also, being novel still isn't enough, it must also be non-obvious.
 

The "board of advisors":

Prof. Sergio Focardi (INFN – University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. Michael Melich (DOD – USA)
Prof. Alberto Carnera (INFM – University of Padova – Italy)
Prof. Giuseppe Levi (INFN – University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. Pierluca Rossi (University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. Luciana Malferrari (University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA)

Prof. Stremmenos Christos (Athen University – Greece)

There is nobody named George Kelly at UNH.
 
Doesn't the US Patent Office have rules against Perpetual Motion Machines?
 
Doesn't the US Patent Office have rules against Perpetual Motion Machines?

In theory yes. In practice they have to notice that somthing is actualy claiming to be a Perpetual Motion Machine.
 
In theory yes. In practice they have to notice that somthing is actualy claiming to be a Perpetual Motion Machine.



Cases like this one are also complicated by the fact that, as described, it's not actually perpetual motion. They're not claiming to get energy from nowhere; they're claiming to get it from fusion of nickle and hydrogen nuclei. That such fusions almost certainly don't occur under the conditions they assert it does is much harder to demonstrate with the legally required certainty, as compared to your traditional perpetual motion machines.
 
In theory yes. In practice they have to notice that somthing is actualy claiming to be a Perpetual Motion Machine.
I believe that if the invention as set out in the patent probably does actually work in the sense that it does what it claims to do. All the patent application really claims is that you put energy in, there's a reaction, and you get more energy out. This is entire possible if, for example, the nickel is oxidizing.

I think what he's done is made outrageous claims in public and then made very ordinary claims in a patent application. The usual reason to do this is to get the patent granted and then raise money. Then the person always needs more money and/or more time to get his invention perfected.

The thing is, Rossi has claimed such a tight timeline here that I don't see how he could pull off such a thing. Maybe all he wants is attention?
 
Levi and Carnera also do not exist at the stated location.
 
The thing is, Rossi has claimed such a tight timeline here that I don't see how he could pull off such a thing. Maybe all he wants is attention?



Well, he's probably been paying attention to things in this field (various free energy scams), and has noticed that, no matter what you promise, and no matter how obviously you fail to live up to those promises, there will always be someone willing to invest in your particular nonsense scheme.

Blacklight Power and Steorn have been making money for years, decades no less in BL's case, on the basis of BS promises just like this one. Why would he expect it to be any different for him?
 
Levi and Carnera also do not exist at the stated location.

Levi's name shows up at the University of Bologna, but does not appear to be affiliated with the INFN. Carnera exists as reported.
 
I'm guessing it's an investment scam, as these things usually are. But he's claimed an unusually tight timetable, which usually makes it hard to make much money on this kind of thing.


That tight timeline is for today's investors. Tomorrow's investors will see a new, tight timeline.
 
Thanks for the work Horatius;

From your quote:

1. A method for carrying out an isothermal reaction of nickel and hydrogen, characterized in -that said method comprises injecting hydrogen into a metal tube filled by a nickel powder, even of nanometric dimensions, or nickel granules or bars, in a high temperature and pressurized hydrogen gas saturated environment, thereby generating energy.

Note that as described, this is not Pons & Fleishmann/Jones brand of "Cold Fusion" via electrolysis in heavy water.

If they really had a six month experiment running with that much energy surplus, it ought to be fairly simple to demonstrate transmutation (via fusion with hydrogen) of nickel nuclei by starting with a very pure nickel sample and then running the end sample through a mass spectrometer alongside some controls.
 
Note that as described, this is not Pons & Fleishmann/Jones brand of "Cold Fusion" via electrolysis in heavy water.

If they really had a six month experiment running with that much energy surplus, it ought to be fairly simple to demonstrate transmutation (via fusion with hydrogen) of nickel nuclei by starting with a very pure nickel sample and then running the end sample through a mass spectrometer alongside some controls.


Yes, the P&F type cold fusion has largely gone out of style. I'd like to get a real chemist to look into some of these things though, as I've noticed that this guy isn't the only one using a nickel based device. The Blacklight Power guys have been pushing something involving "Raney Nickel" as the latest version of their claims.

I have a suspicion that what these guys have really discovered is some novel chemistry, that is energetic enough to create these "anomalous" heat effects, but which isn't actually sustainable enough to be a useful energy source. So, they've decided to use it as the center piece of their scam, until someone else finally figures it out. It would take a real chemist doing real research to prove this, however.
 
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