Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Hey, I was thinking about bumping this one as well today. I had reasons to look up Blacklight Power earlier...

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10 MW from a power cell that's one cubic foot? Hey, Rossi, this guy is horning in on your schtick!


10 MW from one cubic foot? That's nothing Rossi gets almost 2 KW from .11 cc(one gram) of nickel powder. Also Monsieur Le Chatelier takes a holiday for Rossi. I'm pretty sure that that's a world first.
 
10 MW from one cubic foot? That's nothing Rossi gets almost 2 KW from .11 cc(one gram) of nickel powder. Also Monsieur Le Chatelier takes a holiday for Rossi. I'm pretty sure that that's a world first.

Well science doesn't know everything, gravity is a mystery, Big Energy has bought off the scientists, and Rossi is a lone hero defying the Man.

Summary of comments.
 
The credibility of the fanboy drops with comments like "This report is being released via arXiv.org, an open source, but fully credible, journal." - arXiv.org is not a journal and is not open source as far as I can see.

If they had told me that the report was in a locked file cabinet in an unused bathroom marked Closed, they might have more credibility.
 
I was really surprised to read that extremetech article.

Here's what I'm wondering. Those independent verifiers have names, and jobs, and presumably reputations. Who are these guys?

Are they part of a fraud scheme?

Have they been duped?

On the surface, this has the appearance of something that could be legit. Independent verification by a team of experts. It must be true, mustn't it?

The fortunate thing is that if it turns out to be true, we all reap the benefits of it even if we didn't believe it when we read about it. If he has really discovered something worthwhile here, we get cheap power and he becomes filthy rich. In some ways, that would be the boring case.

However, there's just a slim chance that maybe the world is not on the brink of an energy transformation just yet. If that's the case, I just have to wonder how he digs up these independent experts to verify the claims.
 
I was really surprised to read that extremetech article.

Here's what I'm wondering. Those independent verifiers have names, and jobs, and presumably reputations. Who are these guys?

Are they part of a fraud scheme?

Have they been duped?

On the surface, this has the appearance of something that could be legit. Independent verification by a team of experts. It must be true, mustn't it?
It's the same group that tested his contraptions before. Here's the 2014 list.
The paper was authored by Giuseppe Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén, of the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden. While some of these people have previously been public in their support of Rossi and the E-Cat they are all serious academics with reputations to lose and the paper is detailed and thorough.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgib...device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/

Here are the authors of the report on the previous test.
Authors of the May 16, 2013 paper “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”
Giuseppe Levi, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Bologna University
Evelyn Foschi, “… is in the product development department for medical devices, University of Bologna. Her specialty is X-ray.”
Torbjörn Hartman, The Svedberg Laboratory
Bo Höistad, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Nuclear Physics, Uppsala University
Roland Pettersson, Department of Chemistry – BMC, Analytical Chemistry, Uppsala University
Lars Tegnér, Department of Engineering Sciences, Division of Electricity, Uppsala University
Hanno Essen, Department of Mechanics of the KTH Royal Institute of Technology
 
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Hey, I was thinking about bumping this one as well today. I had reasons to look up Blacklight Power earlier, and noticed something cute:





10 MW from a power cell that's one cubic foot? Hey, Rossi, this guy is horning in on your schtick!

Forget that. I just want his solar cells!

Optical power is converted directly into electricity using mass-produced commercial photovoltaic cells (solar cells)
 
So he has a cubic foot of something that glows really, really brightly?

How big of a bunch of photovoltaics would it take to capture the 1mw? They would probably be arranged spherically, how large would the be?
 
So he has a cubic foot of something that glows really, really brightly?

How big of a bunch of photovoltaics would it take to capture the 1mw? They would probably be arranged spherically, how large would the be?
The current version of his device looks like a thick rod with lumps at each end. To produce energy it has to be connected to the electric power supply, whereupon it allegedly emits more power than it receives. But it requires this external input. It can never be made to provide its own.
 
So he has a cubic foot of something that glows really, really brightly?

How big of a bunch of photovoltaics would it take to capture the 1mw? They would probably be arranged spherically, how large would the be?



Yeah, I'd like to run the numbers on when the solar cells would melt, if this were real.
 
The last few posts show a little confusion between two quite different devices and their associated claims.
Randall Mills electrically vaporizes tiny quantities of water in the space between the teeth of two gears. As the wheels turn this generates a flash of light from each tooth. This light can be converted to electricity with low-power solar cells. The alleged power density of this process is such that if the vapor volume were scaled up to a cubic foot the power output would be ten megawatts. That this would vaporize the reactor and any nearby solar cells is merely an engineering problem.
Andrea Rossi's recently tested "hot cat" consists of an alumina tube about 8" long and 3/4" diameter containing resistive heating elements. This allegedly radiates some 3 kW at a temperature around 1400 C even though the electrical input is only 900 W. It appears very much like the heating elements used in old-fashioned electric fires which also became very hot with an input around 1 kW. In this case the scaled-up industrial application would heat a working fluid to drive a turbine. This is much simpler than finding high-temperature solar cells.
 
It is my understanding that perpendicular bright noontime sunlight at noon at the equator (the max) has a total energy density of 137 milli(thousandth)Watts per square cm, or just under 14 Watts of a 1 meter sq array. Of course, clouds, other times of the day, higher latitudes would make this much less. Commercial solar cells are doing very well at 19% efficiency. At hundred percent conversion, a 10 by 10 cm 1 sq meter "magic" solar panel would produce an absolute maximum of 14 Watts in this brightest sunlight (pretty far short of the 1 thousand Watts described). So yes, the light emitted by the Blacklight device would have to be captured by a very large array (71 sq meters at a theoretical 100% conversion, or 344 square meters at todays best commercial arrays) of photocells per megaWatt if the light is as bright as the brightest sunlight (or cells that don't melt and maintain their efficiency at even higher extremely bright light levels).
 
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A description of the device, by its proposers, may be seen at http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/sf-ciht-cell/
Claims made include
The power density is one million times that of the engine of a Formula One racer, and ten million times that of a jet engine.
The SunCell™ uses cheap, abundant, nontoxic, commodity chemicals, with no apparent long-term supply issues that might preclude commercial, high volume manufacturing.
At 50,000 times brighter than sunlight, the corresponding reduction in the area of the photovoltaic converter gives rise to a projected cost of the SunCell™ of about $100/kW compared to over ten times that for conventional power sources of electricity.
 
A description of the device, by its proposers, may be seen at http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/sf-ciht-cell/
Claims made include

Do we know know of any photocells that can convert these huge light intensities into electricity? Without melting and without greatly reduced efficiency?

But of course they don't propose a distance, so we could reduce the overall size of the panels if we place them closer, if we could deal somehow with the increased light and heat compared to sunlight, which is already quite hot at noontime in the tropics. Of well, it doesn't pay to talk too much about how to deal with problems caused by fictitious devices.
 
This 2011 blog is still applicable to the new e-Cat: The Physics of why the e-Cat’s Cold Fusion Claims Collapse
Basically, there is the astrophysics of
* The proposed Ni -> Cu by the addition of a proton does not even happen in stars like the Sun. The Sun has 100 times more Ni than it does Cu.
* Ni is converted to Cu in massive stars like red giants but not by proton capture - by neutron capture followed by beta decay.
The nuclear physics of
* Every proposed Cu isotope is unstable or excited. They decay back to Ni + a positron + a photon (gamma rays) + a neutrino or to the ground state by emitting a photon.
* The positrons annihilate with electrons producing more easily identifiable gamma rays.
* You need "a foot of lead, a meter of concrete, or a few meters of water" to shield yourself from gamma rays.

The original e-Cat had 2 inches of lead as shielding. That was enough to filter out 96% of any hypothetical gamma radiation. The problem was that they did not detect the remaining 4% and that should be enough to kill the researchers :eek:!

ETA:
The new e-Cat analysis is worse
* there seems to be no signs of shielding. See Figure 3.
* they weight the e-Cat after the test without shielding. 59Cu has a half-life of 81.5(5) s, 61Cu 3.333(5) h and 62Cu 9.673(8) min.
* there are dosimeters used for "radiation emission measurements". They have control dosimeters at a distance "d > 50cm". They seem to think that gamma radiation is stopped in a less than 1 meter of air!
* They applied instruments directly to the ash :eek:!
Subsequently, Bianchini evaluated the possible presence of alpha, beta and gamma radiation by applying his instruments directly to the powder that was subsequently inserted into the reactor. The same operation was repeated after the end of the test on the powder extracted from the reactor. In both cases, no signs of activity were found.
* for some strange reason, they tested for neutron radiation and found none.
* they double up on the woo by proposing the reaction p + 7Li -> 8Be -> 4He + 4He to explain the change in Li abundance. But they detect no alpha particles!

In a way the researchers did a good job but could not come to the reasonable conclusion because of their bias: The readings tell anyone who can read that there is no possible nuclear fusion process that is producing the claimed heat excess. Thus the heat excess is probably fraud on Rossi's part.
 
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It is my understanding that perpendicular bright noontime sunlight at noon at the equator (the max) has a total energy density of 137 milli(thousandth)Watts per square cm, or just under 14 Watts of a 1 meter sq array. Of course, clouds, other times of the day, higher latitudes would make this much less. Commercial solar cells are doing very well at 19% efficiency. At hundred percent conversion, a 10 by 10 cm 1 sq meter "magic" solar panel would produce an absolute maximum of 14 Watts in this brightest sunlight (pretty far short of the 1 thousand Watts described). So yes, the light emitted by the Blacklight device would have to be captured by a very large array (71 sq meters at a theoretical 100% conversion, or 344 square meters at todays best commercial arrays) of photocells per megaWatt if the light is as bright as the brightest sunlight (or cells that don't melt and maintain their efficiency at even higher extremely bright light levels).

I think you may be off on the sunlight power figures. I believe it is closer to 1 kW of power per square meter.


ETA: Oh, I think I see what you did. 137 mW/cm^2 is the correct figure for optical power reaching the Earth (unimpeded by atmosphere). cm^2 -> m^2 requires multiplying by 100*100. Looks like you multiplied by just 100. You should have been at 1.37 kW/m^2, then the atmosphere brings it down to about 1 to 1.1 kW.
 
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