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Coalition in Westminster

Rolfe

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Rolfe
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The election thread seems to have run into the sand, and we have a new government this morning.

Does anyone want to discuss the coalition deal and the prospects for government?

Rolfe.
 
I'm at a bit of a loss. The Lib-dems are left of Labour, or am I misreading things? And they can form a coalition with the Tories?

They must be on a promise of proportional representation, which I can't see being honoured. Another election within 12 months is my prediction.
 
With regular mention of 'electoral reform' cropping up, we might guess that the introduction of proportional representation was the first item on the LibDem agenda during those talks.

If so, can we expect coalition governments for the foreseeable future?
 
I can't quite see how it is going to hang together. I'd like to think that genuine compromise with the Lib Dems would temper the worst of the Tory instincts, but why do I have such a nasty feeling that they're going to roll over and take whatever the Tories offer just in order to keep their ministerial seats?

I also wonder about the numerous Tory MPs who were fondly expecting to become ministers or cabinet ministers, and who now find themselves on the back benches instead. Are they going to be muttering darkly about Dave and his New Friends, to the detriment of all?

Edit: Proportional representation is a key policy for the Lib Dems. The Tories aren't offering them that, just a referendum on Alternative Vote which isn't the same thing. They have also apparently amended some of their tax plans to suit the Lib Dems better. We shall see what actually transpires, though.
 
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GlennB said:
With regular mention of 'electoral reform' cropping up, we might guess that the introduction of proportional representation was the first item on the LibDem agenda during those talks.

If so, can we expect coalition governments for the foreseeable future?
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Electoral reform doesn't necessarily mean propotional repesentation. The Tories seem only to have offered a referendum on the AV system, which isn't even close to PR.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Electoral reform doesn't necessarily mean propotional repesentation. The Tories seem only to have offered a referendum on the AV system, which isn't even close to PR.

Rolfe.
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As I said in another thread AV has the benefit of (usually) having a clear winner, no hung parliaments and stability. I know I'm biased because this is the system we have in Australia, but it's worked pretty well for over a hundred years and there is no debate at all about introducing a "better" system.
 
richardm said:
I also wonder about the numerous Tory MPs who were fondly expecting to become ministers or cabinet ministers, and who now find themselves on the back benches instead. Are they going to be muttering darkly about Dave and his New Friends, to the detriment of all?
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That's a serious point. David Mundell was seriously expecting to be the next Secretary of State for Scotland, not because of any personal aptitude (the man's a complete toom tabard), but because he is the only Conservative MP in Scotland.

Danny Alexander? Who he? :confused:

Rolfe.
 
lionking said:
As I said in another thread AV has the benefit of (usually) having a clear winner, no hung parliaments and stability.
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So does FPTP, usually. It doesn't mean it's particularly fair in terms of divvying up seats according to how many votes are actually cast. AV isn't much different, from what I can gather.
 
lionking said:
As I said in another thread AV has the benefit of (usually) having a clear winner, no hung parliaments and stability. I know I'm biased because this is the system we have in Australia, but it's worked pretty well for over a hundred years and there is no debate at all about introducing a "better" system.
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I was at one time a big fan of AV, but I seem to have moved on. It seems to me to be a bit of a half-way house to PR. However, you may be right and it's likely to be a big improvement on FPTP. Take longer to count though!

They're also talking about fixed term parliaments, which could be interesting.

Rolfe.
 
Regarding changing voting systems, the BBC have a nice roundup of the various types and their implications here.
 
I heard stuff I really liked on the radio this morning. Full implementation of the Calman Report (in fact they were saying "Calman plus"), and legislation to prevent Scottish, Welsh and Irish MPs voting on English domestic legislation. There was even some hint of possibly further reductions in the number of Westminster parliamentary constituencies in Scotland.

The LibDems have always been federalists, though they've gone a bit quiet on that recently. Nevertheless, our (defeated) local LibDem candidate trotted it out at the hustings, which made the SNP contingent look very pensive indeed.

Rolfe.
 
If a referendum on PR is on the table the Lib Dems will have "got away with it"*, if it's not I'd expect to see a fair bit of resentment coming through in the next 18 months. At the moment it looks as though the Lib Dems have rolled over for a slice of the action.

I still get the feeling there is a bit of resentment within the Tory party not only on for those who won't get the ministerial posts but that they only increased their share of the vote by 3.8% and are having to share power.


*In their voters eyes
 
richardm said:
So does FPTP, usually. It doesn't mean it's particularly fair in terms of divvying up seats according to how many votes are actually cast. AV isn't much different, from what I can gather.
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What it does mean is that your second preference counts in a contest where there is not a clear majority, which is at least something. Don't get me wrong, the system is far from perfect. Parties do preference deals and put out "how to vote" cards. You sometimes see the Labor Party recommending second preferences for conservative christian parties in exchange for their preferences.

All in all, though, it seems far superior to the dog's breakfast you have there now.
 
lionking said:
What it does mean is that your second preference counts in a contest where there is not a clear majority, which is at least something. Don't get me wrong, the system is far from perfect. Parties do preference deals and put out "how to vote" cards. You sometimes see the Labor Party recommending second preferences for conservative christian parties in exchange for their preferences.

All in all, though, it seems far superior to the dog's breakfast you have there now.
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If it was the norm how long would the "mess" take to sort it out. Looking around in other countries it doesn't seem to be that bad.
 
lionking said:
All in all, though, it seems far superior to the dog's breakfast you have there now.
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It is a bit of a mess, but it's very unusual for it to be like this. Normally it is more decisive.

Besides, the AV system falls quite a way short of what the Lib Dems have been after for years and years; I can't see what it gains them to go for that now.
 
richardm said:
It is a bit of a mess, but it's very unusual for it to be like this. Normally it is more decisive.

Besides, the AV system falls quite a way short of what the Lib Dems have been after for years and years; I can't see what it gains them to go for that now.
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Spot on, which is why I can't see the coalition lasting too long.
 
When you design an engineering structure, you generally don't put a major stress line down the middle, because it's apt to come apart under load at the worst possible moment.
I'll be interested to see how this unholy alliance survives its first unanticipated stress.

Woo- spooky- radio 4 is prattling in the next room. I just heard Carl Sagan's voice. How odd.
 
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