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Clare Short

Hypocolius

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Has no-one an opinion on Clare Short?

For Americans who may not have heard the news, Clare Short (ex cabinet minister, resigned after Iraq war) let 'slip' during a radio interview that she'd read transcripts of Kofi Annans private conversations, with the implication that they were collected by intelligence agents. When asked if they were collected by British 'spies' she said yes (though I don't know how she'd know that).
 
Cook says she's lying. I would be very unliky for her to have this kind of information. The woman is a pure opotunist who I don't trust a nanometer.
 
geni said:
Cook says she's lying. I would be very unliky for her to have this kind of information. The woman is a pure opotunist who I don't trust a nanometer.
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Lying? Dunno, I think she's not very smart, but deliberately telling porkies? I think what probably happened is that she misinterpreted something she got handed in her inbox, had a little frisson of excitement at being at the centre of things so didn't question it too much. Transcripts of conversations can after all come from a number of sources, ministers reporting back what they'd said etc, but she clearly assumed it was espionage.

Now she wants to occupy the moral high ground (for whatever reason?) she's dragged this up. She must have known the storm it would create!
 
Well, regardless if Kofi Annan was being spied on or not ... if the guy assumed nobody was (is) spying on him then he's an idiot.

Maybe this is just a good wake up call for Kofi.
 
If she's lying I guess all the government has to do is say she's lying and that Blair did not order any spying on his friend Kofi Annan.
 
geni said:
Cook says she's lying. I would be very unliky for her to have this kind of information. The woman is a pure opotunist who I don't trust a nanometer.
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That's not quite what Robin Cook said. The reality is that we just don't know the truth here.

Whatever Ms Short might be saying, it seems overwhelmingly likely that British intelligence were bugging the UN in some way. The court case with the GCHQ women has been hanging around for quite a while; the government have had months to deny the allegations and they haven't done so. In addition, various senior UN figures are saying that they were pretty sure they were being bugged.
 
Jaan said:
Well, regardless if Kofi Annan was being spied on or not ... if the guy assumed nobody was (is) spying on him then he's an idiot.

Maybe this is just a good wake up call for Kofi.
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Although spying on the UN would be illegal, Kofi Annan and others certainly never assumed that they weren't being spied on. The had their offices regularly swept for bugs and one senior guy I heard said that for confidential calls he had to go to a busy cafe or take a walk in Central Park.
 
iain said:
Although spying on the UN would be illegal, Kofi Annan and others certainly never assumed that they weren't being spied on. The had their offices regularly swept for bugs and one senior guy I heard said that for confidential calls he had to go to a busy cafe or take a walk in Central Park.
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What would make spying on the UN an illegal act?
 
From what has been surfacing in the papers and on TV here, it seems that she is not entirely sure that what she saw were intel documents. Unfortunately Ms Short is a glaring example (a major let down in my book) as to why the classical left in this country became unelectable. They just dont know when it's in the best interest of the country to keep quiet.

She shows no maturity at all, she was in cabinet at the time, she has broken a basic trust in order it seems to have a snipe back at TB. I did look up when the news first broke, not because I was surprise at the revelation, but because I was surprised that she had the cheek to discuss it at all. What does she think GCHQ is there for, it intercepts communications. It is a naiveté beyond belief that she finds this so disturbing.

IMO the fact that Robin Cook has called her out on the issue speaks volumes. If there was mileage in what she was saying, he would have kept quiet, it would be in his long term interest to do so.

So it's a big "well done" Ms Short from the brothers and sisters of the left, and a big "Shut up" from just about everyone else.
 
aerocontrols said:
What would make spying on the UN an illegal act?
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There are three relevant treaties on this. Two the British have signed up to (along with other UN members) and a third is an agreement between the US and the UN. If the British and/or Americans are spying on the UN itself, it would be in violation of these treaties. I guess you could have a semantic argument over whether this counted as being illegal under international law, but my understanding is that it probably would.

(Sorry - I can't remember the exact details of the treaties - I can try to track them down if people want).
 
geni said:
Cook says she's lying. I would be very unliky for her to have this kind of information. The woman is a pure opotunist who I don't trust a nanometer.
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I've no clue as to the lady's veracity.

But in the abstract, it's simple inconceivable that great britian or the US would actually spy on the UN! (ha!)

varwoche
 
mummymonkey said:
If we're not spying I want my money back.
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Couldn't agree more.

I hope we have the oval office bugged, I hope we have the Chinese bugged, I wish we had every foreign country leaders bugged! What do people think a country's intelligence agencies are meant to be doing if they think this would be terrible?

As for Short, - she is someone who I feel was ambitious beyond her talents.
 
Hypocolius said:
Which in her case wouldn't go beyond sitting the right way on a toilet.
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Whether or not she's gone off the rails on this one, I think that's a little unfair. When in office, she's generally acknowledged to have done a good job (at least until the Labour Party spin doctors get round to re-writing history). Tony Blair thought she was good enough to put considerable effort into persuading her to stay on at the beginning of the war. Hardly the sign that she was promoted beyond her abilities.
 
iain said:
When in office, she's generally acknowledged to have done a good job .
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Don't tell my wife that! As Development Minister Clare Short
"Clare Short will be missed for the enthusiasm and profile she has brought to international development issues, but not for the misguided policies that this government has forced on the people of the developing world."
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from http://www.wdm.org.uk/presrel/current/shortresign.htm

Other organisations (Human Rights watch, FOE etc) say basically the same thing. Very keen, bloody incompetent.
 
iain said:
Tony Blair thought she was good enough to put considerable effort into persuading her to stay on at the beginning of the war. Hardly the sign that she was promoted beyond her abilities.
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I'd say it's more that Tone didn't want anyone jumping ship. A united front always looks good, and I'll be honest I bought into that as well. What with old CND stalwarts like Jack Straw and Clare Short supporting the war, there must be a good reason, even if we haven't been told what it is. This of course ignored the blindingly obvious fact that the fact that they were CND stalwarts means they are both a little short in the critical thinking department.
 
Hypocolius said:
Don't tell my wife that!
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I won't if you won't.

Seriously, though, no minister is going to win approval from everyone. For example, I think David Blunkett is following shockingly wrong-headed policies as Home Secretary. I wouldn't for a moment say, though, that this meant he was incompetent or unfit for the job - just, in my view, very very wrong.

Also, I think one of the joys of working in a Blair Government is that you often don't get as much say in policies as you might like.
 
iain said:

Also, I think one of the joys of working in a Blair Government is that you often don't get as much say in policies as you might like.
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Agreed, and TBH I don't follow Ms Short's career as closely as I ought, however my wife, who works in the development field, is quite vocal on the subject, and she blames Short!

I just feel it is disingenuous of her to expect the public to believe that this was a big shock to her, and that her conscience is "developing". It's a surprise to me that anyone can get to the level she has and be so naive.
 
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