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Claim: Soul releases "unnatural" energy upon death

Lonewulf

Humanistic Cyborg
Lonewulf
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Messages
10,375
[14:46] Friend: actually, upon the moment of death, there is an unnatural release of energy
[14:46] Cybawulf999: Evidence?
[14:47] Friend: that science still cant explain
[14:47] Friend: google? :)

[...]

14:58] Friend: sorry work showed there back
[14:59] Friend: The electrical implus after death isn't a myth, it's detectible

Wasn't able to find anything on google, and he's rather unresponsive at the time.

Anyone ever hear of this? If so, is there any studies or the like on the topic?
 
Well, I have a Fluke meter and a gun. Hook me up with your friend and we'll conduct an experiment.

;)
 
I agree, the claim is weird. I usually respect my friend here, but on this issue, I'm afraid that he came straight out of left field here. I've heard of the experiment, wherein they concluded that the soul weighed, like, 16 grams or the like, although it was unrepeatable. I've never heard of "strange energy being detectable", though.
 
I've not heard of this either. I suspect if it were true, it would be a well known fact, not an obscure claim.
 
Some guy back in the 1800's weighed people just before death and just after. He found a tiny but detectable reduction in weight of a few grams. He then claimed the difference was the weight of "the soul, having left the body", and drew the above conclusion.

Obviously absurd, because he failed utterly to take into account any other more sane reason for tiny weight loss at death, e.g. loss of moisture through the skin due to drying, loss of other stuff due to more icky processes, etc.

Putting it kindly, falls under the heading of making the data fit the result. I.e. backwards science.
 
Zep said:
Some guy back in the 1800's weighed people just before death and just after. He found a tiny but detectable reduction in weight of a few grams. He then claimed the difference was the weight of "the soul, having left the body", and drew the above conclusion.

Obviously absurd, because he failed utterly to take into account any other more sane reason for tiny weight loss at death, e.g. loss of moisture through the skin due to drying, loss of other stuff due to more icky processes, etc.

Putting it kindly, falls under the heading of making the data fit the result. I.e. backwards science.
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That's not it. He claims that the energy is detectable, not to do with weight, emanating from the brain I believe.
 
Update: The argument has shifted. He admits that he was probably wrong about the "unnatural" energy.

[18:27] Friend: i could be wrong, i've never read a formal study. i just remember folks testing energy pulses at death

The conversation has now moved onto Near Death Experiences.

[18:29]Friend: no like know how people with near death situations.. people see themselves floating over themselves
[18:29] Friend: typically in hospitals
[18:29] Cybawulf999: Same thing with the NASA testing
[18:29] Cybawulf999: If it's replicated by someone that's definitely alive and not about to die, I'm not sure how much weight to give it as evidence of an afterlife
[18:31] Friend: well.. they put like pictures facing up in hospitals..
[18:31] Friend: and tested to see if folks could see them
[18:34] Cybawulf999: Results?
[18:36] Friend: its an on going study

Note: My friend is not religious, but he does seem to favor belief in the Afterlife, for personal fears of non-existence after death.
 
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Lonewulf said:
That's not it. He claims that the energy is detectable, not to do with weight, emanating from the brain I believe.
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Even if that was true, what could possibly be the basis for the claim that this energy comes from anything that could reasonably called a "soul"?
 
Rasmus said:
Even if that was true, what could possibly be the basis for the claim that this energy comes from anything that could reasonably called a "soul"?
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It doesn't. I wanted to pursue whether or not the study existed in the first place before arguing its veracity, though.
 
MrQhuest said:
I wonder how much the volume of air within the lungs weighs....

MrQ
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Yep. I think most of us can see obvious good reasons for the results. In fact, if we apply a little thought to the situation, it would be predictable, not unexpected.

As to the "electrical energy" thing, that's merely gross ignorance. I've heard variations on this, but it runs along the lines that since there is "electricity" in the body when it is alive (presumably they mean nerve impulses), and none when the body is dead, it has to go somewhere! at the time of death. I wondered for an instant where they thought our bodily batteries were...
 
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Place the soon-to-be deceased in a sealed room, and weigh the room.

At the instant of death, check the weight.
Any air expelled will be part of the room's weight.
Only the disappearance of the soul will change the weight.
 
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Denver said:
In the book "SPOOK: Science Tackles the Afterlife", Mary Roach speaks to Professor Bruce Greyson, who seems to be conducting those kinds of experiments in conjuntion with some hospitals (or at least was as of 2005, when that book was printed).

Looks like his bio is at: http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/biobruce.cfm
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I enthusiastically second this book. It describes a whole range of soul-searching experiments (including the weighing the dying one from the 1800's).
 
Zep said:
Some guy back in the 1800's weighed people just before death and just after. He found a tiny but detectable reduction in weight of a few grams. He then claimed the difference was the weight of "the soul, having left the body", and drew the above conclusion.

Obviously absurd, because he failed utterly to take into account any other more sane reason for tiny weight loss at death, e.g. loss of moisture through the skin due to drying, loss of other stuff due to more icky processes, etc.
Click to expand...

MrQhuest said:
I wonder how much the volume of air within the lungs weighs....
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As I recall, he did account for the air in the lungs, the "icky" stuff, and a few other things (or at least he tried). I'm more concerned about how accurate his scale was, and the fact that he only did four measurements (if I remember it right).

You can probably find the article online if you care. I remember that I read it (years ago) at a site with "ghostweb" in the name, and the guy's name was Duncan McDougall (but I'm not sure I'm spelling it right).
 
MrQhuest said:
I wonder how much the volume of air within the lungs weighs....

MrQ
Click to expand...

Uhhhhhh... nothing. If his lungs are collapsed, it is, of course, nothing. If it's still in his lungs, it's buoyed up by additional displacement of air. In fact, the weight of any body is buoyed up (made lighter) by the amount of air displaced by the body, unless it is weighed in a vacuum. The only time when air makes a difference is if it is compressed or rarified, so it's density is different from the ambient air that buoys it up. Thus a football, when blown up, is a trifle heavier than it is when it is deflated, because the air inside is compressed and has a higher density. The air in the lungs is normally at the same pressure as ambient.
 
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McDougall's had the bed on a scale. We discussed it here about 3-4 years ago? No weigh ;) his scale could weigh a body and a bed, say 300 pounds, and be that accurate.

Hmm, though, I would suspect the possibility of some truth to the electrical surge at death. Neurons discharge, allowing things to penetrate membranes- or not to. Chemistry is all about electrons and charges, so all those chemicals and all those membranes, some kind of discharge could happen. For instance, nerve impulses push calcium ions through membranes as the signal for a muscle cell to contract. Then, the muscle uses energy to push the ion back out, recharging for the next pulse. If the nerve system dies, what then? Would it be detectable?
 
casebro said:
McDougall's had the bed on a scale. We discussed it here about 3-4 years ago? No weigh ;) his scale could weigh a body and a bed, say 300 pounds, and be that accurate.

Hmm, though, I would suspect the possibility of some truth to the electrical surge at death. Neurons discharge, allowing things to penetrate membranes- or not to. Chemistry is all about electrons and charges, so all those chemicals and all those membranes, some kind of discharge could happen. For instance, nerve impulses push calcium ions through membranes as the signal for a muscle cell to contract. Then, the muscle uses energy to push the ion back out, recharging for the next pulse. If the nerve system dies, what then? Would it be detectable?
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Without any method to confine what was on the scale, like having the subject in a sealed container, the expiration of breath would show as a weight loss.
ALL the variables have to be accounted for, to state that the sought-for event was not merely something left out of consideration.
 
What release of energy, and what is unnatural about it? Confuse him with mumbo jumbo about ATP, unlesss you want to be clear and learn a lot about it, and how it is not unnatural to no longer have the usual energy production or storage going on at the time of death (although some cells take longer to die than others).
http://biologyinmotion.com/atp/index.html
http://library.thinkquest.org/27819/ch4_3.shtml
Energy production stops, and who knows... maybe some of it could be released depending on how the person dies.

Definitely nothing unnatural about it though.
 
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