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CIT.....Time to call it a day
- Thread starter Mr.Herbert
- Start date
I'll explain this a little further for those who don't understand. The pseudo intellectual is accusing me of ignoring what he apparently thinks is viable technology in the form of a morphed wing. Well, morphed wing technology has been in use since the 1960's in the F-111, F-14, and later the B-1. In those aircraft the morphed wing was/is in the form of variable wing sweep. The wings in those aircraft are positioned forward (ala a straight wing design) for take off/landing and slow speed flight. The wings are positioned in increasing increments aft to eventually form a delta wing at higher speeds. It gives the aircraft a greater speed/maneuver capability. In the F-111 the wings could be positioned to 16 degrees aft of 90 degrees for take off and swept to 70 degrees for high speed flight. This gave the aircraft the ability to land at typical approach speeds of ~ 135-140 Knots, yet fly faster than Mach 2.5 for an intercept or quick dash capability. A significant note here is that this technology was only incorporated into COMBAT ASSETS. No Transport Category aircraft has this feature simply because it would be a useless, wasted expense for a dubious purpose.
The poster at LCF is talking about using memory shape alloys to actually twist the wing to allow greater angles of attack, therefore enhanced maneuverability. Think of the way birds use their wings to change the angle of attack and it will help to understand the concept. Perhaps it is a viable concept, perhaps not. It has been almost 7 years since 9/11 and if there were an aircraft of this type of design it would likely be common knowledge by now.
At any rate, even tho' some advanced aircraft designs are kept secret from the public they are widely known within the USAF and the FAA. For example, the F-117 was kept secret from the public simply because of the stealth technology. Of course, it's not really the public these aircraft are intended to be hidden from it's an enemy who would want to develop technology to defeat it. Within USAF circles the F-117 was known about from virtually the beginning because many have friends flying it and some receive assignments to it, so it is only a secret to the general public. The same is true for most any advanced technology. It is kept secret from the general public simply to avoid alerting an enemy to it's existence and prompting the development of technology to defeat it.
The most advanced viable technology in use today is "vectored thrust". That concept is incorporated into the F-22 Raptor. It would likely not be a viable concept in a Transport Category aircraft simply because of wing mounted engines versus fuselage mounted ones. Again, it would be virtually useless in anything other than a Combat Asset anyway and no sane responsible person would even suggest it.
I do hope that this line of argument by CIT and/or their supporters continues as it marginalizes them even more than they already are.
I hope R.Mackey drops by for comments as he is likely more familiar with the latest technologies and concepts that I am.
The posters at LCF are not intellectually gifted like the standard first grader who can use cause and effect to make rational conclusions ; they must all be socks of JFK and Dylan.
The sad part is they are making up stuff before they have proven the passengers from 77 who were smashed up into the Pentagon, were not. So pathetic; do their mommies know they are saying all this disrespectful, doltish tripe?
The sad part is they are making up stuff before they have proven the passengers from 77 who were smashed up into the Pentagon, were not. So pathetic; do their mommies know they are saying all this disrespectful, doltish tripe?
WOW here we go YET AGAIN with more smoking gun evidence to be released.
What a joke Aldo is.
His own people are even laughing at him!
nicepants
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,723
Let me guess....another "eyewitness" who refuses to go on the record and is doubly super triple coco-puff-corroborated sure that the plane was moving "slower than the citgo"....or something equally stupid.
(I wonder if the "proven" speed will exceed the stall speed of a 757)
A W Smith
Philosopher
Pinch
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 401
That is the perfect example of how far off the Gray-Matter reservation the CIT boys are. Ask them how a north of the Citgo flight path can be reconciled with a South Parking lot flyover and they revert to mental-vapor-lock mode.
Try to point out the aeronautical aspects of this, as Reheat has done (and others, as well - me for one) that an aircraft of that size simply *cannot* make any turn even *close* to what would be needed. This isn't Reno and a 757 at any speed will not/can not make a pylon turn to get from the Citgo to South Parking and stand back to watch the fireworks!
Wow it is occurring to me that the CIT is a fringe of a fringe of a fringe of a fringe.
The truther community doesn't even seem to pay them much attention.
Craig started a attention seeking thread over at ATS and hardly a response was given to him.
They have what like 3 or 4 people supporting them over at LCD and their own forum barely get a visit.
Time for a CIT hunger strike!!!!!
The truther community doesn't even seem to pay them much attention.
Craig started a attention seeking thread over at ATS and hardly a response was given to him.
They have what like 3 or 4 people supporting them over at LCD and their own forum barely get a visit.
Time for a CIT hunger strike!!!!!
Hello JREF,
Just to give Aldo the ability to say he was right about at least one thing, I thought I'd create a JREF account now that I've been banned without warning over at LCF by JFK.
And what an amazing experience it was... Stundie, JFK, Bitterman, SPreston and Aldo all came out guns blazing, all pushing a deliberate CIT lie "the officers never said they saw the plane hit the building, the officers were not in a position to see the planes hit the building" that can easily be proven false.
At least Stundie had the balls to come out at the end and admit he was wrong.
Just to give Aldo the ability to say he was right about at least one thing, I thought I'd create a JREF account now that I've been banned without warning over at LCF by JFK.
And what an amazing experience it was... Stundie, JFK, Bitterman, SPreston and Aldo all came out guns blazing, all pushing a deliberate CIT lie "the officers never said they saw the plane hit the building, the officers were not in a position to see the planes hit the building" that can easily be proven false.
At least Stundie had the balls to come out at the end and admit he was wrong.
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SpitfireIX
Philosopher
Welcome, bobloblaw. Congratulations on having survived the lions' den; I've thought about going over there, but I know I'd be banned so quickly it would hardly be worth the trouble.
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You're not banned, just suspended for 7 days, for uh, uh..... insulting Waldo. You have to realize that site is LC in name only, it is now CIT since LC is down the tubes.
Nice job Bob!
That was fantastic that Aldo claimed that you were not a real person.
Good stuff.
Its funny to see JFK constantly warning people like Dom and yet you get a 7 suspension ban for next to nothing.
JFK is pathetic and joke to call himself a mod.
Its like nazi Germany over there.
That was fantastic that Aldo claimed that you were not a real person.
Good stuff.
Its funny to see JFK constantly warning people like Dom and yet you get a 7 suspension ban for next to nothing.
JFK is pathetic and joke to call himself a mod.
Its like nazi Germany over there.
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The Big Dog
Unregistered
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Messages
- 29,742
Welcome to the site! I've been watching your thread over at the New Loose Change board (now known as CIT's Loose Change Board) with growing hilarity. We all knew that it was just a matter of time before CIT's lap dog JFK would hop in to save Waldo more embarrassment and suspend you. What else could JFK do? Every one of Waldo’s posts were getting more pathetic:
Waldo said: “I wouldn't say a plane "coming right at him" gives anyone a good view of an impact. Especially one that is debunked by where he saw the plane.”
Dear lord, what idiocy. He did not have a good view of the impact when the plane was coming right at him? Moreover, Waldo is once again forced to throw his own witness under the bus to save his fantasy theory, and Waldo gets JFK to throw you under the bus.
I of course laughed out loud when I read this, though:
“That is a clear sign of victory when your opponent has to resort to insults and personal attacks.”
Waldo posted that six minutes after he called you “JREF scum”! What a spectacular failure those guys are.
Signed, 16.5, JREF Scum.
/Hi Lap Dog!
One of my favourite parts of the exchange was when Aldo said:
We proved it wasn't an AA and one of those corroborating details was the color white. Silver very well could have been in there or it was a metallic white/off white.
If I remember correctly, that most of the people in the burbs (Paik, Lagasse and Turcios all say it was grey/silver/dark/black wings) thought it was white was the only reason it could not have been AA77 according to CIT. And even Jamal thought it was an American Airlines jetliner, albeit white.
So here's their star flyover witness saying it was silver and in comes Aldo trying to make the colour a non-issue again.
You just have to laugh at the nerve sometimes...
We proved it wasn't an AA and one of those corroborating details was the color white. Silver very well could have been in there or it was a metallic white/off white.
If I remember correctly, that most of the people in the burbs (Paik, Lagasse and Turcios all say it was grey/silver/dark/black wings) thought it was white was the only reason it could not have been AA77 according to CIT. And even Jamal thought it was an American Airlines jetliner, albeit white.
So here's their star flyover witness saying it was silver and in comes Aldo trying to make the colour a non-issue again.
You just have to laugh at the nerve sometimes...
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I just got back from a lengthy trip to Ecuador. No, I didn't cause the Forum meltdown. Fnord.
There are, of course, many ways to "morph" a wing. Transport aircraft actually have quite a bit of variability, namely in their flaps. Fully retracted, the wing is most efficient at low angles of attack, and is optimized for high subsonic speed. Fully extended, the wing is most efficient (and controllable!) at fairly high angles of attack, increasing lift to the point that it can fly much slower. Efficiency and controllability are the two big ones.
Swept-wings in military planes have much the same effect, but there are other factors in play that make swept wings more valuable in these applications, among them stowage space (especially in the F-14) and responsiveness. The B-1B Lancer is designed to "dash" and that requires rapid configuration changes, not the slow and carefully choreographed sequence of a commercial plane on descent.
This has been studied extensively, and progress is slow. One of the most unusual "morphing" designs is the Active Aeroelastic Wing research vehicle, building on work done in the 80's using an F-8 Crusader that is now on a stick outside the Dryden visitor center. Anyway, what happens in this case is the wing itself changes shape, rather than just moving, to optimize performance. Quite interesting but complicated technology.
The AAW is the most advanced vehicle of this type in the world. Nothing resembling this technology has ever been fielded. Nor would it provide the capabilities the conspiracy theorists want in the first place -- the AAW is all about fuel efficiency, flutter reduction, control redundancy, and stability. This technology cannot possibly give you an aircraft capable of the radically tight turns they've proposed, and even if it could, survival of the pilot would be in grave doubt.
Vectored thrust will help with the control authority problem, because it lets you use thrust to spin the aircraft around rather than ailerons and elevators. Theoretically the engine inlet could be designed so that it wouldn't stall until after the control surfaces did, but in practice both will happen if you push it hard enough.
However, even vectored thrust cannot give you such absurdly tight turns. At best you might get 1.3 g out of the engine, compared to 9 g sustained which is available from aerodynamics. And that's in a lightweight, overpowered fighter aircraft. The idea of vectored thrust providing multiple g of maneuver in something the size of a 757 beggars the imagination. At that point, rather than crash the Pentagon, you may as well hover over it and melt it into a puddle...
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