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Cieling tiles.

leftysergeant

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
18,863
I have just gotten a microscope with imaging capabilities and am about to do some experiments aimed at solving some of the residue questions related to 9/11. I need to know what the cieling tiles in a normal office building are made of in order to predict how they would behave at high temperatures and what residues they could be expected to leave behind. I would also like to address what role they might have played in the long-last fires.
 
I have just gotten a microscope with imaging capabilities and am about to do some experiments aimed at solving some of the residue questions related to 9/11. I need to know what the cieling tiles in a normal office building are made of in order to predict how they would behave at high temperatures and what residues they could be expected to leave behind. I would also like to address what role they might have played in the long-last fires.

You can get all the information you need from Armstrong......but this is the basics out a typical specification.......

2.2.0 ACOUSTICAL CEILING UNITS
A. Acoustical Panels Type ACT-1:

Surface Texture: Fine
Composition: Mineral Fiber
Color: White
Size: 48in X 24in X 3/4in
Edge Profile: Square Lay-In for interface with compatible Armstrong grid.
Noise Reduction Coefficient (NRC): ASTM C 423; Classified with UL label on product carton, 0.70.
Ceiling Attenuation Class (CAC): ASTM C 1414; Classified with UL label on product carton, 35
Emissions Testing: Section 01350 Protocol, < 13.5 ppb of formaldehyde when used under typical conditions required by ASHRAE Standard 62.1-2004, "Ventilation for Acceptable Indoor Air Quality"
Flame Spread: ASTM E 1264; Class A (UL)
Light Reflectance (LR): ASTM E 1477; White Panel: Light Reflectance: 0.86.
Dimensional Stability: Standard -Space is enclosed, weatherproofed, HVAC systems operating.
Antimicrobial Protection: BioBlock Plus - Resistance against the growth of mold/mildew and gram positive and gram negative odor and stain causing bacteria.
Acceptable Product: Cirrus, 533 as manufactured by Armstrong World Industries.
 
You might want to consider that most of the destruction was mechanical... crushing, abrasion, grinding, impact. Clearly fire and heat were involved in the initial period, and perhaps heat from friction during the collapse phase.

Further you need to consider the various materials in the building which the ceiling tile materials were mixed with.
 
Okay, where I am so far, it appears that the modified food starch would contribute some fuel to the fires. There were tons of that stuff in the pile.
 
in addition to mineral fibers contain cellouse (aka wood pulp) which will burn .......
 
Ceiling tiles, are believe they are made of thermite [dws]
All of the thermXte claims are technically ridiculous. Most of them several orders of magnitude outside the range of possibility:
...all the "silent explosive" stuff when explosive cutting depends on a ruddy great big "Bang";
...no way that use of termite melting could be incorporated into the global collapses of WTC 1,2 or 7 - cannot be synchronised as only one of the problems;
...not enough heat available from painted on thermXte

and that's technical reality before we even look to the logistic and security impossibilities of doing it without getting caught - before, at the time OR after.

And the truthers forget that the first thoughts of most engineers - particularly us military engineers - is "How would I do it if the Boss/General gave me the task?"

Give me a pristine WTC Twin Tower out in a desert to avoid "collateral damage" plus needed resources and I could easily bring it down..

...but no way could I mimic how the towers actually fell using thermxte and not revealing my tricks

...could probably mimic the collapse using conventional explosives BUT not without the "big bangs" OR visual give away evidence.

AND
...certainly not whilst integrating an aircraft impact scenario as part of the cover story. ;)
 
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That's weird. ;)
thumbup.gif


As I said "most" --- ;)
 
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All of the thermXte claims are technically ridiculous. Most of them several orders of magnitude outside the range of possibility:
...all the "silent explosive" stuff when explosive cutting depends on a ruddy great big "Bang";
...no way that use of termite melting could be incorporated into the global collapses of WTC 1,2 or 7 - cannot be synchronised as only one of the problems;
...not enough heat available from painted on thermXte

and that's technical reality before we even look to the logistic and security impossibilities of doing it without getting caught - before, at the time OR after.

And the truthers forget that the first thoughts of most engineers - particularly us military engineers - is "How would I do it if the Boss/General gave me the task?"Give me a pristine WTC Twin Tower out in a desert to avoid "collateral damage" plus needed resources and I could easily bring it down..

...but no way could I mimic how the towers actually fell using thermxte and not revealing my tricks

...could probably mimic the collapse using conventional explosives BUT not without the "big bangs" OR visual give away evidence.

AND
...certainly not whilst integrating an aircraft impact scenario as part of the cover story. ;)

now if the task was to do and to make it do so from a point approx a dozen floors from the top, you would have to study the construction and find a way to make the top mass do all the work of destruction for the rest of the tower.

hmmm, well perhaps if we use thermite to add enough heat to the office fire enviroment we can have the floor pans fail and cause inward bowing of the perimeter columns, and maybe add more heat in the core area too, in order to cause the larger core columns to suffer weakening and creep deformation. then, at a prearranged time a small explosive charge goes off on several of these already weak/soft core columns thus setting in motion a rapid column failure progression and dropping the upper mass onto lower floor pans which will strip away from their column connections all the way down the tower, allowing the perimeter column panels to peel away and leaving core unsupported and battered.

In the private sector the lead engineer might come up with this and then leave it to his subordinates, recent graduates, to work out the details such as hiding all evidence of this, installing the chrages, protecting those small explosive charges from harm before they are set off, remote operation systems/autonomous timing systems.

Darned military works the other way though and you is at da bottom rung and you's gotta do all that yourself!

Very difficult to model this in a computer, might take a few months running FEAs but if time is no constraint..........

Of course you don't even have to be in-on-it wrt to 9/11 but it would be rather odd if you did not recognize your proposal in action on 9/11. However, you have been visited by the MIB or simply came down with a fast and aggressive brain tumour in August of 2000 which killed you in May 2001
 
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now if the task was to do and to make it do so from a point approx a dozen floors from the top, you would have to study the construction and find a way to make the top mass do all the work of destruction for the rest of the tower.

hmmm, well perhaps if we use thermite to add enough heat to the office fire enviroment we can have the floor pans fail and cause inward bowing of the perimeter columns, and maybe add more heat in the core area too, in order to cause the larger core columns to suffer weakening and creep deformation. then, at a prearranged time a small explosive charge goes off on several of these already weak/soft core columns thus setting in motion a rapid column failure progression and dropping the upper mass onto lower floor pans which will strip away from their column connections all the way down the tower, allowing the perimeter column panels to peel away and leaving core unsupported and battered.

In the private sector the lead engineer might come up with this and then leave it to his subordinates, recent graduates, to work out the details such as hiding all evidence of this, installing the chrages, protecting those small explosive charges from harm before they are set off, remote operation systems/autonomous timing systems.

Darned military works the other way though and you is at da bottom rung and you's gotta do all that yourself!

Very difficult to model this in a computer, might take a few months running FEAs but if time is no constraint..........

Of course you don't even have to be in-on-it wrt to 9/11 but it would be rather odd if you did not recognize your proposal in action on 9/11. However, you have been visited by the MIB or simply came down with a fast and aggressive brain tumour in August of 2000 which killed you in May 2001

oh and if its not obvious, the above would be accomplished using thermite ceiling tiles in core, and in areas near the core in the open floor space. The hot spot at one corner of WTC 2 is evidence that all did not go as planned when dozens of ceiling tiles were knocked out and accumulated near that corner and ignited.
 
now if the task was to do and to make it do so from a point approx a dozen floors from the top, you would have to study the construction and find a way to make the top mass do all the work of destruction for the rest of the tower....
Remember that we have 20/20 hindsight post 9/11 - it has already happened. Which is both a help and a hindrance. A help in that we know the basic mechanisms of "initiation via a cascade failure" leading to "global collapse via ROOSD". The hindrance is how closely we want to mimic the 9/11 collapse mechanism - hence the graduated series of comments in my post.

...hmmm, well perhaps if we use thermite to add enough heat to the office fire enviroment we can have the floor pans fail and cause inward bowing of the perimeter columns,...
...nah. Use the thermXte directly to cut the floor joist lower chords - that will induce the sag more reliably than more generally applied heat. AND you can use thermXte to do that. (Gee - I could make a truther - don't think any truther has thought of that. I could fund world tours off my presentations.....:rolleyes:)

and maybe add more heat in the core area too, in order to cause the larger core columns to suffer weakening and creep deformation....
Why not fly an aircraft into the tower to "bulldoze" all the office furnishings into a nicely compacted heap. The office furnishings have more heat energy than thermXte - Cue beachnut to remind us of the energy comparisons.

Better still, if we need a "bulldozer" effect then why use an aircraft - they make clumsy bulldozers. Cue to call Caterpillar or Komatsu or....;) (There I'm thinking like a truther - one factor at a time - no regard for how do I get the dozer up 80 or so storeys.) ("thinking like a truther" - there's another oxymoron for that recent post...:D)

then, at a prearranged time a small explosive charge goes off on several of these already weak/soft core columns thus setting in motion a rapid column failure progression and dropping the upper mass onto lower floor pans which will strip away from their column connections all the way down the tower, allowing the perimeter column panels to peel away and leaving corie unsupported and battered.
Conventional but nothing in the scenario says "avoid conventional".
...In the private sector the lead engineer might come up with this and then leave it to his subordinates, recent graduates, to work out the details such as hiding all evidence of this, installing the chrages, protecting those small explosive charges from harm before they are set off, remote operation systems/autonomous timing systems.
Delegation.
...Darned military works the other way though and you is at da bottom rung and you's gotta do all that yourself!...
It's the new democratic army - all decisions by a majority. I would be the Major. :)
...Very difficult to model this in a computer, might take a few months running FEAs but if time is no constraint..........
Actually tying yourself to computer and FEA could well be a big hindrance. The old fashioned methods where you had to know what you were doing could well be more reliable and faster for this scenario. The progression over three generations slide rules plus brain>>>>calculators plus less brain>>>FEA fill in the boxes and lose the plot has been well demonstrated in a couple of threads here.
Of course you don't even have to be in-on-it wrt to 9/11 but it would be rather odd if you did not recognise your proposal in action on 9/11. However, you have been visited by the MIB or simply came down with a fast and aggressive brain tumour in August of 2000 which killed you in May 2001
Nah. Remember the Eleventh Commandment - "Thou shouldst not let thyself get caught" :boxedin:

And cue Lefty on "English Orthography" for that last bit about "Thou shouldst not let thyself get caught" :blush:
 
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Remember that we have 20/20 hindsight post 9/11 - it has already happened. Which is both a help and a hindrance. A help in that we know the basic mechanisms of "initiation via a cascade failure" leading to "global collapse via ROOSD". The hindrance is how closely we want to mimic the 9/11 collapse mechanism - hence the graduated series of comments in my post.
We are now speaking to the theorectical military cCommander's instructions and if I want to include a Texas sharpshooter and have that Commander show an animation of exactly the fashion by which the tower must come donw, by Gum i'll include it in this truther=like scenario!
:) smiley so we know the post is somewhat sarcastically posted

...nah. Use the thermXte directly to cut the floor joist lower chords - that will induce the sag more reliably than more generally applied heat. AND you can use thermXte to do that. (Gee - I could make a truther - don't think any truther has thought of that I could fund world tours off my presentations.....:rolleyes:)

Need a side kick? I can pump the crowd up with your laurels and ,,, "And here, NOW, without further ado, the great and powerful Oz ECO ASCE"

Why not fly an aircraft into the tower to "bulldoze" all the office furnishings into a nicely compacted heap. The office furnishings have more heat energy than thermXte - Cue beachnut to remind us of the energy comparisons.
well we ARE doing that but its not enough oooobviously. Its just for shock and awe, and a cover story.

Better still, if we need a "bulldozer" effect then why use an aircraft - they make clumsy bulldozers. Cue to call Caterpillar or Komatsu or....;) (There I'm thinking like a truther - one factor at a time - no regard for how do I get the dozer up 80 or so storeys.) ("thinking like a truther" - there's another oxymoron for that recent post...:D)

Remote controlled dozer that can hide in plain sight. That would work, contact Optimus Prime.

Conventional but nothing in the scenario says "avoid conventional".
Just trying to K.I.S.S.
Delegation.
It's the new democratic army - all decisions by a majority. I would be the Major. :)
Change your last name to Major and its a winning movie.


Actually tying yourself to computer and FEA could well be a big hindrance. The old fashioned methods where you had to know what you were doing could well be more reliable and faster for this scenario. The progression over three generations slide rules plus brain>>>>calculators plus less brain>>>FEA fill in the boxes and lose the plot has been well demonstrated in a couple of threads here.
Where does it say we have to stick to the old ways, ie. the "conventional"?


Nah. Remember the Eleventh Commandment - "Thou shouldst not let thyself get caught" :boxedin:

Go AWOL and set up in your private cabin in Colorado wilderness, or the Aussie equivalent,,,,, another aspect of a good movie.

And cue Lefty on "English Orthography" for that last bit about "Thou shouldst not let thyself get caught" :blush:

yes, that's his baliwick
 

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