Christopher Hitchens debates William Dembski on 11/18

[marplots]

Not that I heard.

 

[CallmePete]

Dembski is putting me to sleep

Looking forward to the Q and A

 

[marplots]

This is the first time I've listened to Dembski and I think I had rather a harsher view of him secondhand here on JREF than he might deserve. I might give his arguments another look-see, just for fun.

 

[Cicero]

Did Hitchens bring up the thing about Dembski almost being "expelled" from his seminary yet?

Has Hitch talked about his church wedding, the baptism of his children, and his Christmas tree?

 

[DallasDad]

Hitch's closing words:

"Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way."

 

[marplots]

I think Dembski must do these things just to hear Hitchens speak.

My guess is that Hitch just put a whole high school of Baptists on the track to skeptical thought.

 

[joobz]

Has Hitch talked about his church wedding, the baptism of his children, and his Christmas tree?

nope.

 

[Cicero]

nope.

Not surprising he omitted that aspect of his life when he is supposed to be representing the atheist POV.

 

[joobz]

Not surprising he omitted that aspect of his life when he is supposed to be representing the atheist POV.

Why?
Does being an atheist mean you can't live with theists?

 

[DallasDad]

Was the closing prayer guy the main preacher for Prestonwood Baptist? I thought he was rather pathetically obvious in his ploy, but it's unlikely the students will see through it. What a splendid way for him to denigrate everything Hitch said without actually refuting anything.

I've noticed this tactic in many preachers, and in my own family. They use prayer as a way of talking to the audience. It lets them disclaim responsibility while simultaneously invoking God as if he were listening and approving everything being said. For a listener without good BS detectors, it can be quite hard to question the prayer.

If I were trying to summarize the closing prayer in ordinary language, it would come to this: "Kids, this stuff is all so very confusing, because it seems to challenge what we teach you. But if you just remember to believe what we say, you don't have to worry about these meddlesome questions."

Good rebuttal, huh?

I have to give the church/school credit for having Hitchens there, though. It was a gamble. I just hope they didn't view it as inoculation and cynically present Hitch because they thought a small exposure followed by sermons would build up immunities in the kids.

 

[joobz]

Was the closing prayer guy the main preacher for Prestonwood Baptist? I thought he was rather pathetically obvious in his ploy, but it's unlikely the students will see through it. What a splendid way for him to denigrate everything Hitch said without actually refuting anything.

I've noticed this tactic in many preachers, and in my own family. They use prayer as a way of talking to the audience. It lets them disclaim responsibility while simultaneously invoking God as if he were listening and approving everything being said. For a listener without good BS detectors, it can be quite hard to question the prayer.

If I were trying to summarize the closing prayer in ordinary language, it would come to this: "Kids, this stuff is all so very confusing, because it seems to challenge what we teach you. But if you just remember to believe what we say, you don't have to worry about these meddlesome questions."

Good rebuttal, huh?

I have to give the church/school credit for having Hitchens there, though. It was a gamble. I just hope they didn't view it as inoculation and cynically present Hitch because they thought a small exposure followed by sermons would build up immunities in the kids.

many kids will see through it.
that guy was blatantly all about false modesty and humility. Kids can be rather adept at spotting phonies.

 

[Cicero]

Why?
Does being an atheist mean you can't live with theists?

People who abide by the sacraments of religion are just living with theists? OK.

 

[joobz]

People who abide by the sacraments of religion are just living with theists? OK.

Depends. Is he married to a Christian?

 

[phildonnia]

I missed it. Is there a recording?

 

[Questioninggeller]

Two points.

First, Dembski defending Agnes Bojaxhiu caused Hitchens to address and restate his criticisms of her. In the process, Hitchens pointed out the purpose of the Protestant Reformation, which earned much cheer from the Baptist audience.

Second, the closing spoke volumes.

After Hitchens told the school children to think for themselves and don't stop asking questions, a minister of Prestonwood Baptist Church told the children what to think.

 

[CurtC]

If I were trying to summarize the closing prayer in ordinary language, it would come to this: "Kids, this stuff is all so very confusing, because it seems to challenge what we teach you. But if you just remember to believe what we say, you don't have to worry about these meddlesome questions."

Good rebuttal, huh?

Kind of goes along with what I was saying earlier about acceptance of authority.

 

[Dr. Keith]

The Prestonwood Baptist Church:

p.s. this is right up the road from where I work. I won't be able to attend, sadly

I can't believe i didn't click on this discussion before now. That is right by my house and I probably could have gone today with a bit of warning! Arrrrrgh! I feel stupid!

I can't wait to see a video.

Were there any interesting questions?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Youtube needed!

 

[Puppycow]

Has Hitch talked about his church wedding, the baptism of his children, and his Christmas tree?

Not surprising he omitted that aspect of his life when he is supposed to be representing the atheist POV.

People who abide by the sacraments of religion are just living with theists? OK.

Think he's "hedging his bets"?

The only one of those three that stikes me as a bit odd is the baptism. A christmas tree is not a religious sacrament, it's a holiday tradition. I think that you'll find that the Bible doesn't say anything about christmas trees, Santa Claus or Rudolf. I'm an atheist and I celebrate christmas this way too. The church wedding is just a practical matter as well as a traditional ceremony. If one expects to have a lot of wedding guests, a church makes sense. The baptism I don't know about but it could be just a traditional kind of thing for the sake of other family members. So all of these things may just be cultural traditions.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Think he's "hedging his bets"?

The only one of those three that stikes me as a bit odd is the baptism. A christmas tree is not a religious sacrament, it's a holiday tradition. I think that you'll find that the Bible doesn't say anything about christmas trees, Santa Claus or Rudolf. I'm an atheist and I celebrate christmas this way too. The church wedding is just a practical matter as well as a traditional ceremony. If one expects to have a lot of wedding guests, a church makes sense. The baptism I don't know about but it could be just a traditional kind of thing for the sake of other family members. So all of these things may just be cultural traditions.

Sorry, but you have to stereotype atheists as being rabid God-haters who foam at the mouth at the merest mention of anything religious. It's in your contract.